2,000 Greater & Lesser Mysteries/2,000 Greater and Lesser Mysteries.iso/ufo/paranet/mys02368.txt

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                Info-ParaNet Newsletters   Volume I  Number 498

                           Friday, November 8th 1991

Today's Topics:

                  Is Dr Armen Victorian really Henry Azadehdel?
                               Paranormal Hiking?
                                Dr. Fredrick Bell
                                    New Poll
                                 Geographic Mag.
                                   Ogden Gifs
                                 Re: OGDEN GIFS
                               Re: AZ MUTE REPORTS
               Energy stored/used --- re: Greg Lush's calculations
                               Re: AZ Mute reports
                          Re: Weird Night On Halloween
                                      Ogden
                                    AZ mutes
                                    New Poll
                                  Crop Circles
                                 Re: Ogden Gifs
                               The End of Freedom
                                    Implants
                                       SHC
                                      Angel
                                  Crop Circles
                            Re: Jupiter as Second Sun

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: carbon.crc.ac.uk!mrc-crc.ac.uk!sgamble
Subject: Is Dr Armen Victorian really Henry Azadehdel?
Date: 4 Nov 91 22:53:05 GMT

From: Steve Gamble x3293 <[e-mail]>


A couple of people have asked me the above question, so
I am posting a newspaper article I discovered at the weekend
to resolve any confusion.

Steve.
=========
FROM THE EVENING POST, NOTTINGHAM, UK : Dated 1st May 1991

===============================================================

 THE SECRET PAST OF APPEAL MAN

A Notts man who helped launch a massive appeal to help Kurdish
refugees has been revealed as the same man convicted at the Old
Bailey for smuggling rare orchids from around the globe.

Dr Armen Victorian, who has received widespread praise for his
efforts for the Kurds, received a suspended jail sentence two
years ago.

But he was convicted under a different name - that of Dr Henry
Azadehdel.

He also hit the headlines claiming he had evidence of a UFO being
shot down in South Africa and the spacecraft's inhabitants bering
taken to the US.

Speaking from his home in Bodmin Drive, Aspley, Dr Victorian said:
'I have nothing to hide about my past.'

He said he had remained silent because he wanted to put the past
behind him and did not want to jeopardise the aid operation and was
still seeking to prove his innocence over the orchids case through
the European Court of Human Rights.

Others who have had dealings with Dr Victorian have praised the work
he is doing.

Lorraine Goodridge, of Torquay, who organised the Gulf Appeal, said
'I speak to Dr Victorian every day. He is wonderful.'

YMCA appeal co-ordinator Helen Johnstone said the collection had
broken all previous appeal records.

==============================================================



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From: compuserve.com!70004.1044
Subject: Paranormal Hiking?
Date: 5 Nov 91 02:32:33 GMT

From: Michael Houdeshell <[e-mail]>

In Paranet Digest 497, Greg (Lush?) posed a question about the amount
of food energy required for a hiker to gain 600 meters' altitude (for
simplicity's sake, we're assuming a constant gravitational field, namely
the sea-level figure of 9.8ms^-2, and disregarding the energy lost in
the form of skeletal and muscular friction, wind resistance, heat
dissipated by shoe scuffing <g>). The upshot of this calculation was
that a 100kg man/backpack combination would require 1.5x10^5 calories
to climb that far, a figure which would suggest that mutilated cattle
(adequately cooked) would have to be dropped (by black helicopters, of
course) along the climber's path every hundred yards or so to sustain
him during this arduous undertaking. Not so. Food calories are actually
_kilocalories_, meaning our intrepid climber would require about
1.5x10^2, or a decidedly non-paranormal can of Coca Cola (or 1/2 Snickers
bar) to power the climb. Might want to eat the entire bar to make up for
the frictional losses, for which sweating is ample evidence.





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From: [e-mail] (John Burke)
Subject: Dr. Fredrick Bell
Date: 5 Nov 91 04:14:00 GMT

From Berlin, Andre Eichner writes:

 >
 > Yes... in the Video he has a pyramid on his head. He sells
 > the head-pyramids for 300DM ($200) in germany.
 > Here was another guy in Berlin, last week. He's speaking
 > about ufo's and the greys in USA: Virgil Armstrong. Did you
 > know about him?
 >
 > cheers
 >    Andre
 >
 > --- GoldED 2.30
 >  * Origin: -=<ParaNet Sigma-Alpha>=- the most important
 > number in Berlin (2:245/10)

Hi Andre!

I've read a bit about Virgil Armstrong's book: _They Need Us, We
Don't Need Them_.  Bob Girard of Arcturus Book Service (P.O. Box
831383 Stone Mountain, Ga. 30083-0023) includes in his catalog,
interesting quips about most of the books listed.  His remark
about this book (also called _The Armstrong Report_):
 > The book which sets the standard by which all New Age and UFO
 > Wanna-be's are measured.
                                    --  John

--
John Burke - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (John Burke)
Subject: New Poll
Date: 5 Nov 91 04:29:00 GMT

Jim:

While flipping through this week's issue of _Time_ magazine, (or
was it _Newsweek_?) I noticed a USA Today - style poll in a
little, yellow window on the Table of Contents page entitled,
"Vox Pop".  The poll listed responses to 2 questions (to the
effect of):  Do you believe in UFO's?  &  Do you believe that
human beings have been contacted by extraterrestrials?
The results reflected a rise in skepticism:  49% "no" to 40%
"yes".  I can't remember the results for the second question
which, of course, indicated greater skepticism.  The poll was a
joint effort with CNN, and I believe the margin of error was 5%.
                                       --  John

--
John Burke - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Geographic Mag.
Date: 5 Nov 91 05:34:00 GMT

Hi Vladmir,

Th Nat'l Geographic issue June 1983 has a great feature story on
THE UNIVERSE.  Although that quote I was looking for on Jupiter did not
appear in this issue (the way I remembered), it's possible the quote
was in another issue.  I'm still checking.

However, there was a reference to Jupiter being a "brown dwarf."  It
reads:
      Jupiter is such an object (a brown dwarf), too small to "turn on"
by nuclear fusion but still shedding heat from its collapse.  Brown
dwarfs cannot be seen at great distances but may well account for a
large part of a galaxy's mass.

I hope I gave you something of use.  If I am misinformed, I know
someone like (Clark Matthews) will rescue me.  <:-)

Regards,

Linda

June '83 Nat'l Geographic, p. 717

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (Mike Keithly)
Subject: Ogden Gifs
Date: 5 Nov 91 06:54:00 GMT


 > Mike,
 >    Aren't those Ogden gif's you posted about the drawings I
 > made of the object and not gifs of the laser photocopies??
 > <got that??>

Yes they are the drawings, how can I get ahold of the Lasercopies?
                    Mike Keithly

 > Thanks,
 >      Linda

--
Mike Keithly - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Pete Porro)
Subject: Re: OGDEN GIFS
Date: 4 Nov 91 18:34:24 GMT

I just received the GIFs via enclosed files with message. I'll have them up
on the board tomorrow, now looking forward to seeing this object for the
first time. I'm still trying to figure out the tease going on. First
information, then a bit more, then it drys up and blows away. If Guy K is the
closest to the source, or the source, I hope he continues to release anything
relevant for investigation. One way or another, I'd still be interested in
something more substantial.
--
Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Pete Porro)
Subject: Re: AZ MUTE REPORTS
Date: 4 Nov 91 18:59:02 GMT

I don't think all of anything will be explained. The cult connection makes
sense. Unless someone comes forward and says yes we're the ones doing it, the
mutes will remain a mystery. As you have mentioned before in reference to
other issues, if someone did come forward and take the blame, some people
would not believe them anyway. (note: Crop Circles fit here as well as Ed's
photos.)

I am often amused at the flip in reaction and logic on some issues, by some
people. If someone comes out with a story about UFO's that is filled with
holes, Believer Bud (no one real) will say, it's the truth and we should all
believe it with more faith. Next two old guys claim they made some of the
crop circles, and BB says, no way it's a Govt. scam to cover-up the truth. So
the problem is that in both cases the information is shaky at best, but those
incidents that fit BB's personal adgenda and belief system, will be accepted
with mild evaluation. On the other hand, something that BB does not wish to
have deflate his dillusions, will be picked apart word by word, inch by inch.

Lets see what got me started on this again, oh yes the Mutes. We all know
something unexplained is going on. The myth grows in proportion to the time
it is investigaated, and multiplys accordingly when the public gets involved.
Once it hits TV prime time, the tale has numerous errors tagging along with
it. The myth has some many versions and explination theorys, that it's nearly
impossible to collect and synthesize a reasonable scenario to cover what the
facts indicate. To put it more simply, I'd like to see an honest, unbiased
person look into this and report just the facts, not the opinions.

Last of all, I'll repeat something I have dropped in messages before. (It's
my prediction and opinion) when someone finally starts to collect information
in a more scientific format. (like boring data and statistics) I believe we
will find that pressure flaked stone tools will be indicated as the cutting
device used in some of the incidents of organ removal, which extremely clean
cuts have been made. They are sharper than the sharpest surgical steel knives
used in hospitals. I also believe that as you mentioned about this one case,
we will find that all the blood is not drained, just a major portion.
--
Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: UNHH.UNH.EDU!K_MACARTHUR1
Subject: Energy stored/used --- re: Greg Lush's calculations
Date: 5 Nov 91 17:51:25 GMT

From: [e-mail]


 There is an easy solution to your problem of so much energy being
gained by someone hiking up a mountain (in excess of the food that was eaten).
You are neglecting a quirky definition of the food energy involved.  Indeed
as far as normal energy equations go, 1 calorie = 4.18 Joules, but for some
reason that eludes me, whenever the chemical energy of food is concerned,
scientists re-define the calorie.   One food calorie == 1000 heat calories ==
4180 Joules.    I don't know why other than not having to work with large
numbers (lazy).  I suppose you might lay off your next hamburger if you
thought it had 500,000 calories instead of 500.   Minor mistake, easily enough
to correct.  That means our daily supply of 2500 calories (working hard) gives
us 10.45 MegaJoule of energy to use during the day.  A large portion of that
goes into running our biological processes and gets released as heat.  I ran
into a stat that we all radiate about 100 watts constantly on average (dep.
on activity).  Over 24 hours, that is about 8.64 MegaJoule.    With whats
left from 2500 food calories the hypothetical 100 kg man with backpack could
do enough work to climb up 3600 meters or so.   He/she would most likely opt
to only climb up half that height if they wanted enough energy to climb back
down.   I understand why real mountain climbers gorge on hi-cal foods.  To
tackle any real heights you have to eat like a horse.

[Note:  energy calculations based on PE=0.5*m*g*h, actual mileage may vary :) ]

If you could expend all your food energy of the day in one second, you could
pump a burst from a 10 MegaWatt laser.   Of course you'd die after, or feel
like dying.

     Korac MacArthur




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From: afglsc.span.nasa.gov!webb
Subject: Re: AZ Mute reports
Date: 5 Nov 91 22:34:51 GMT

From: [e-mail]

To: Jim Speiser
Your comments re the Cochise mute report raises interesting
questions about the frequency of cult-related mutes. Certainly cult
activity is the cause of some mute cases, but it is a stretch to think they
might explain all of them. Human intervention does seem unlikely in the
reports where no tracks or other traces are found near the body or where
UFOs are seen in the vicinity, or even purported to be observed hauling
poor cows upwards in light beams! How about the association of black
helicopters and mutes? Of course, a lot of this 'evidence' is
circumstantial, but the relationship between mutes and UFOs seems stronger
than that between crop circles and UFOs, for instance. Now what we need is
a good case of a muted cow found in the exact center of a crop circle!


To: Bill Chalker
On Early Australian UFO history, I would love to see your
entry in Clark's encyclopedia, but unfortunately the publisher has priced
those volumes out of the reach of most poor Ufologists, like myself!





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From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Re: Weird Night On Halloween
Date: 5 Nov 91 20:50:00 GMT

>I recorded the show, but have not taken the time to watch it
>yet. Had the lady from acroos the street over for a nip or two
>(gin for those who think otherwise <grin>) If anyone wants to
>come to Milwaukee and help paint and stain, I have many hours
>of Arthur C. Clarke and UFO specials. 8*)
  ----Hmmmm...sounds like a good time was had by all!
>From the assorted reviews, it's supposed to be general, but
>that's good for showing to people who don't read this type of
>information on a daily basis. Tax time again, gotta run.

That's pretty much the impression I got from what I saw of it, sort
of a general wrapup/overview of the whole topic, which is bound to
bore those who know a bit more about some of the stories and to
leave those who don't know about them in the dark on some points.
Interesting tidbit was the mention of the crop circles in which the
host/moderator said something to the effect of:  What would
constitute physical proof?  and then cited the crop circles as a
possible proof while noting the animal mutilations as a factual
proof of alien visitors.  Linda Howe is convinced of this and
believes her proof is beyond question, but not everyone agrees that
what she has is, in fact, proof.
        But I quibble...
        Painting, staining and taxes....  Fun Stuff!
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Ogden
Date: 5 Nov 91 20:57:00 GMT

Hi Sheldon,
        Just read your message quoting the AP wire story about the
nuclear waste disposal from Fort St. Vrain in Colorado to Idaho, and
your idea was good.  In fact, Michael Corbin (ParaNet Alpha, Denver)
had mentioned this too when he spotted a small item in the local
paper about it and I did call the Idaho National Engineering
Laboratories where this is being done -- they manage that whole dump
area that's being fought over -- and they, too, knew nothing of this
Ogden thing.  The closest thing they did know of was a drilling
project done on their land this year in which biologists drilled a
core (only) down about 600 feet merely to check the subsoil biology,
the lifeforms, etc., that is, and they did not find anything unusual
at all, nor did they make a hole large enough to bring up anything
-- merely a hole the width of the drill bit.
        Twas a good idea, Sheldon, but didn't pan out on that one
either.  Looks to me like the Original Source is the only one who
knows enough "factual info" to give anything concrete because all
the possibles and peripherals I've checked know zip about it.
                                        ==Peggy==
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: AZ mutes
Date: 5 Nov 91 13:51:36 GMT

In a message to Jim Speiser <03 Nov 91 13:58> Sheldon Wernikoff wrote:


 SW> Hi Jim,


 SW> "Gross examination of unexplained animal mutilation deaths suggest
 SW> that these animal deaths were not caused by accidental death,
 SW> predation or cult sacrifices. Microscopic tissue examinations have
 SW> been extensively compared to known human tissue changes secondary
 SW> to high heat. It is difficult to avoid the inescapable conclusion
 SW> that the changes in animal tissues in these unexplained deaths had
 SW> dissection with an instrument causing high heat. By what
 SW> instrumentation and means this is accomplished remains a mystery.
 SW> for what purpose is even more enigmatic. The fact that these
 SW> animals are found in remote areas, away from human or animal
 SW> tracks, off roads and away from highways, found within hours of
 SW> having been seen alive at a time of unusual observed aerial
 SW> phenomena all suggest that extraterrestrial factors must be
 SW> considered as a plausible explanation of the ever increasing
 SW> numbers of unexplained animal mutilations."


From this, one would be tempted to conclude that Some Unknown Higher
Intelligence is purposely carving up cows in a manner that resembles the modus
operandi of Satanists, in order to cover its tracks. The reason I'm beginning
to get a little skeptical of this is because it sounds like what one lady told
me about why most people don't see UFOs: because they have the ability to
change the shape of their craft so that they look like clouds (yes, she was
serious!).


 SW> I'd sure like to hear what some other pathologists have to say
 SW> about Altshuler's conclusions....some of the non-ET, non-cult
 SW> hypotheses. I've never seen anything in print anywhere. Has

I, too, would like to see an independent review of Altshuler's findings.


 SW> Skeptical Inquirer ever done anything that you know of? I really

They have had a couple of articles on cattle mutes, one of which was written by
an FBI Agent who investigated them back in the early eighties. Mostly they
point to a book called "Mute Evidence" by Kagan and Summers, and write the
whole thing off as predation. Little mention is made of cult activity (I wonder
why, in light of Raffity's certainty that this is cult-related?)

 SW> found your post of their PR on NDE's thought provoking.

Susan Blackmore is one of CSICOP's very best. She's a former believer, and
still tweaks the noses of the more stuffy, staid debunkers in the organization.
(She's also cute!)


 BTW, did
 SW> you know that the leading cause of "accidental" death in cattle is
 SW> electrocution by lightning?

No, but it makes sense.

 SW> I am certain that Satanic activity does account for some mutes,

Why, if there is no solid evidence? If there is, where can we read about it?
See, I'm skeptical of BOTH sides on this one.


Jim

--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: New Poll
Date: 5 Nov 91 14:21:25 GMT

In a message to Jim Speiser <04 Nov 91 21:29> John Burke wrote:

 JB> Jim:

 JB> While flipping through this week's issue of _Time_ magazine, (or
 JB> was it _Newsweek_?) I noticed a USA Today - style poll in a
 JB> little, yellow window on the Table of Contents page entitled,
 JB> "Vox Pop".  The poll listed responses to 2 questions (to the
 JB> effect of):  Do you believe in UFO's?  &  Do you believe that
 JB> human beings have been contacted by extraterrestrials?
 JB> The results reflected a rise in skepticism:  49% "no" to 40%
 JB> "yes".  I can't remember the results for the second question
 JB> which, of course, indicated greater skepticism.  The poll was a
 JB> joint effort with CNN, and I believe the margin of error was 5%.
 JB>                                       --  John


That's very interesting, and if its comprehensive enough, it supplants the
1987 Gallup poll. We now have to point to the 1991 Time-Or-Was-It-Newsweek poll.

Jim

--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Crop Circles
Date: 5 Nov 91 15:01:49 GMT

In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <30 Oct 91 22:58> John Powell wrote:

 JP> Well, the shameless media-presented (and sponsored by who knows...) ploy to
 JP> discredit the totality of the phenomenon with this single pathetic prank,
 JP> (which essentially amounted to just a personal attack on Delgado), might
 JP> have worked well in the past but things/people change.


Just one question that needs to be asked. What was it about the Geezer circle
that caused Delgado to go out on such a limb?

OK, another question: Would any other Cereologist have been fooled?

No matter how you view the Geezer prank, these are important questions, gang.
These people were shouting "Mystery!" long before any "cellular manipulation"
was discovered, and doing so solely on the basis of the structure and patterns
of the crop circles. Delgado has shown (TWICE now) that he cannot identify a
"true" crop circle from a hoax. He is, for better or worse, one of the world's
leading cereologists, from whom a good percentage of our knowledge of the
mystery comes. What does this say about how we should treat this mystery? I'm
not implying anything, I'm asking an honest question, which I guess is this:
what constitutes a "true" crop circle, and how are WE supposed to tell the
difference, if one of the world's leading cereologists cannot?

Jim

--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Ogden Gifs
Date: 5 Nov 91 22:28:29 GMT

Hi Mike,
 You asked:

 > Yes they are the drawings, how can I get ahold of the Lasercopies?
 >                     Mike Keithly


Mike, that's the $64,000 question!  Peggy Noonan has been trying to get actual
copies for WEEKS, and has had no luck.

Something's fishy here - but we don't know what (or whom)!

Regards,

Linda

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (Clark Matthews)
Subject: The End of Freedom
Date: 6 Nov 91 02:29:00 GMT


 > Oh?  Never see much of that money ever make it to the lowly
 > technical
 > levels.  Guess it must be another of those 'live at the
 > top' scenarios.
 >

Hello, Steve.  Every scenario is a "live at the top" scenario,
wouldn't you agree?  It helps to be on the winning side, of
course -- the people at the top of history's dustbin experience
lots of problems as a rule.

BTW, sounds like you speak from personal experience about how
unaccountable NatSec funds never get to the lowly technical
levels.  Care to elaborate?

 > CM> the KGB apparatchiks *did not* follow their orders.  With a proud
 > CM> history of 70 years of savage terrorism and repressionbehing them --
 > CM> they couldn't bring themselves to live up to it!  Their instincts were
 > CM> astonishingly humane.  Watching the coup fail was as gratifying
 >
 > And I believe the local grunts can be counted on doing the
 > same.  What
 > makes them any less capable of critical and/or humane
 > judgement?  The old
 > addage, "_______ are people, too" seems to fit.

Gee, somehow this fails to reassure me, Steve.  I personally wish
that the "local grunts" would get real jobs.  I wonder how many
people here feel the same way you do?

Okay, okay, call me a bad-tempered bastard who refuses to
acknowledge the humanity of the people who tap my phones, snoop
on these message echos (as human BBS callers and thru anonymous UNIX
FTPs) and who may someday come knocking on my door at 5 a.m.

I'd really like to share your belief that Frank Capra is writing the
script for our republic in the information age, but I'm worried
by developments.  The combination of an overgrown government
bureaucracy and an unknowably large secrect security apparatus --
both determined to preserve themselves -- together with powerful
modern data/telecommunications technologies concerns me a lot.  I
think that people in these organizations will find, provoke, or
fabricate reasons to preserve themselves and their power.  Since
I don't work for them, this possibility does bother me.

I mean, the Nazis liquidated 6 million Jews and 9 million
"politicals" and POWs by using notecards in shoeboxes.  Just
think what they could do with the INSLAW software package
(in one form or another)?

Of course, you must be greatly relieved to be able to trust in the
humanity of the people in these secret professions.  These days
an extraordinary number of people are worried and disillusioned
about the alaming stories of gov't covert operations, domestic
operations, secret funding, murdered reporters, and all the rest.
There's also palpable public disgust and dismay that the entire
political/government/extragovermental system is out of reach,
above change, and only serves itself.

 > No more bizzarre or true an account that the popular 'Big
 > Foot'
 > sightings of today.


Since you're in the D.C. area you've obviously heard all about the
Maryland "Big Foot" flap.  I defer to your expertise on that one.

 > Quite an imagination!  As they say nowadays..."Sell it to
 > Hollywood."
 >

Well, maybe 48 Hours?  Or EG&G?

 > As you can tell...I don't take to that view at all.  I see
 > bigger
 > attrocities being committed in full and open view of
 > all...with no
 > attempt at any coverup.  I call it collecting taxes and
 > blatent, crass
 > commercialism.  Two biggest ways a fool is parted from
 > their money.

What are you suggesting?  "Buy Quality" and "Don't Pay Taxes"??

 >  CM> But the people on top?  They know exactly what they're doing.
 >
 > How do you think they got there in the first place?

Expect a promotion!

 >  CM> Depressed,
 >
 > Don't be.  Just put in your 80+ years and check out like a
 > true
 > champ.  We're not going anywhere, either.   ;-)

Who's "We"?  You and your tapeworm?


--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Implants
Date: 2 Nov 91 15:43:00 GMT

Hi, Thanks very much for the details of that show which included the
account of an abductee's implant. When you mentioned the name- Richard
Price-it does ring a bell. There was a very detailed write up about
Price's experiences in the Apr/May 1991 issue of "UFO Universe" by
Antonio Huneeus. If you'd like a copy I can send you one. So, thanks
for the preliminary info and save yourself the time of sending further
material-thanks. Interestingly, although there have been many vague
claims of implants, detailed documentation is lacking.

--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: SHC
Date: 2 Nov 91 15:45:00 GMT

Yes, Harrison's 1990 book is apparently an updated version.

--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Angel
Date: 2 Nov 91 15:51:00 GMT

Hi Sheldon,
Thanks for your info on my request re "Angel of revelation." I'll pass
this onto my associate here.

--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Crop Circles
Date: 2 Nov 91 16:01:00 GMT

Hi Sheldon, thanks for the material "The Summer 1991 Crop Circles:The
Date Emerges." It's great to see some more scientific research is
being undertaken on this topic. Unlike other aspects of unusual
phenomenon, you can "go see for yourself"in this instance. I was over
in the UK last year and met Delgado and Colin Andrews the day after
the hoaxed circles below their hillside watch area. Also went and
looked at one of the Alton Barnes markings.
I noted Michael Chorost gives permission to pass copies of the article
on to other individuals. I will make copies available to Australian
researchers here. Once again, thanks.
I also, the same day as your package arrived, got a media release from
the UK Centre for Crop Circle Studies. It also described some of Dr
Levengood's work.
I wonder of crop circles will strike Australia this harvesting season?

--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: Re: Jupiter as Second Sun
Date: 6 Nov 91 06:17:00 GMT


 >  Thanks for jogoging my memory again on that article.  I'll look
 > for it this weekend.^^^^^  (that's supposed to be "jogging")

Hi Linda,
No problem. There is no hurry re the article.
I like that word "jogoging", it looks much better than "jogging" .
(heheheh)

 > Ah, it's getting late.......

Well, that's what happens to people who sit in front of the computer
late at night. However, 10:00 p.m. (the time you wrote your message) is still
too early for me. I am up till 1:00 a.m. (or even later).


 > Say, do you folks down under receive a newspaper cartoon
 > called
 > "Calvin & Hobbes?"  Its about a 6-yr old boy and his stuffed
 > tiger doll.   Anyway, cute cartoon in a cartoon book featuring
 > these two characters:  Calvin is walking with his tiger in the
 > woods (the tiger doll becomes a real tiger when no other people
 > are present) and Calvin says, "I was reading about how countless
 > species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction
 > of forest."

I live in Adelaide, South Australia, but I haven't seen it in our
newspapers.

 > Next frame, he continues, "Sometimes I think the surest sign
 > that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that
 > none of it has tried to contact us."
 >
 > Interesting statement, don't you think?

Yes, it is a very interesting statement. I have seen something similar
in a newspaper cartoon. I can tell you one thing, if I were an
extraterrestrial I wouldn't be too keen to contact our "civilization".
Remember that song...." Stop the world, I want to get off...". That's
how I feel sometimes. But, again, I don't want to sound to
pessimistic..... there are still a few nice things, and people, left
on this planet.

Regards,
Vlad

--
Vladimir Godic - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to********
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******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************

                Info-ParaNet Newsletters   Volume I  Number 499

                         Wednesday, November 13th 1991

Today's Topics:

                            Re: Jupiter as Second Sun
                             UFORA moving to Cairns
                                   Ogden Gifs
                                     (none)
                       When the paranormal becomes an Oops
                                    Implants
                                    AZ Mutes
                                  Crip Circles
                                  End of Ogden?
                             UFORA moving to Cairns
                                     AREA 51
                                 satellite info
                                   Ogden Gifs
                                  Crop Circles
                                      lost
                          Re: WEIRD NIGHT ON HALLOWEEN
                            Weird Night On Halloween
                                     Roswell
                               Heard On The Street
                                   Revelations
                                    Cover Up?
                                     Tremors
                                  More Tremors!
                                    Continuum

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: Re: Jupiter as Second Sun
Date: 7 Nov 91 04:43:00 GMT


 >  Thanks for jogoging my memory again on that article.  I'll look
 > for it this weekend.^^^^^  (that's supposed to be "jogging")

Hi Linda,

No problem. There is no hurry to find that article.


 >    Say, do you folks down under receive a newspaper cartoon
 > called
 > "Calvin & Hobbes?"  Its about a 6-yr old boy and his stuffed
 > tiger doll.   Anyway, cute cartoon in a cartoon book featuring
 > these two characters:  Calvin is walking with his tiger in the
 > woods (the tiger doll becomes a real tiger when no other people
 > are present) and Calvin says, "I was reading about how countless
 > species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction
 > of forest."
 >
 > Next frame, he continues, "Sometimes I think the surest sign
 > that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that
 > none of it
 > has tried to contact us."

I live in Adelaide, South Australia, and I haven't this cartoon in
our local newspapers.

 > Interesting statement, don't you think?

Yes, very interesting and very true. If I were an extraterrestrial I
don't think I'd like to contact our "civilization".

Regards,
Vlad


--
Vladimir Godic - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: UFORA moving to Cairns
Date: 7 Nov 91 05:08:00 GMT



This is just to let you know that you are going to lose contact with
us for about two weeks or so.

UFORA HQ and Administration is moving to Cairns, tropical Far North
Queensland, on November 13, 1991. I'll poll Paranet on Saturday
evening,  (our time) November 9, for the last time before I pack my
computer and send it off to Cairns. My wife and I are leaving on
Wednesday by car. It will take us about 5-6 days to get to Cairns. As
soon as I have phone connected I'll get in touch with Mike.

Because I am host for Paranet/UFORA you'll also lose contact with
Bill Chalker, Keith Basterfield and other UFORA associates who are on
Paranet/UFORA. We have established a UFORA Research Division in
Adelaide and Keith, as UFORA research officer, is going to be in
charge of this branch. Other than that everything else remains the
same. I'll post our new adress on Paranet as soon as possible.

Regards,

Vlad

--
Vladimir Godic - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Mike Keithly)
Subject: Ogden Gifs
Date: 7 Nov 91 01:38:00 GMT


 > Hi Mike,
 >  You asked:

 >> Yes they are the drawings, how can I get ahold of the Lasercopies?
 >>                     Mike Keithly


 > Mike, that's the $64,000 question!  Peggy Noonan has been
 > trying to get actual copies for WEEKS, and has had no luck.

 Well she informed me and as soon as she gets them in she will let me know,
seems the whole fild of UFOlogy is awaiting these pictures..

 > Something's fishy here - but we don't know what (or whom)!

 > Regards,

 > Linda

--
Mike Keithly - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: ecn.purdue.edu!lush
Subject: (none)
Date: 7 Nov 91 18:36:43 GMT

From: [e-mail] (Gregory B Lush)


Subject:  When the paranormal becomes an Oops

Well, people have been very gentle with me regarding my
caloric error.  Experimentalists say that if you are
correct/accurate to within an order of magnitude, you
are wrong.  Well, I was accurate to within 3 orders of
magnitude...

Sorry to have bothered you.

Sheepishly,

Greg ([e-mail])





--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Implants
Date: 7 Nov 91 18:33:00 GMT

>Hi, Thanks very much for the details of that show which
>included the account of an abductee's implant. When you
>mentioned the name- Richard Price-it does ring a bell. There
>was a very detailed write up about Price's experiences in the
>Apr/May 1991 issue of "UFO Universe" by Antonio Huneeus. If
>you'd like a copy I can send you one. So, thanks for the

Hello Keith,
        Thank you for your kind answer!  How very generous you are
to offer to send a copy of the UFO Universe article about Price!
Wouldn't it be terribly expensive what with copying and postage,
though?  If it is not too unreasonable and isn't too time consuming,
I would like to accept your kind offer on the condition that you
permit me to reimburse your expenses for sending this article.   And
this raises a problem -- when I've exchanged items with friends in
England or been paid by British magazines, I've had difficulty using
the funds or cashing checks, so that past experience makes me wonder
what would be a fair medium of exchange for you...perhaps you have a
use for U.S. stamps (maybe in return envelopes?) or perhaps you
would have no difficulty cashing a check or depositing it in your
bank?  Please let me know what would work best for you, but I do
want to cover the expenses or perhaps exchange something of equal
value to be fair.  Hmmmm....if funds were a problem, perhaps you
would want a copy of the audiotape of the radio interview?
        As you noted, hard evidence is sadly lacking in so many
cases.  I'm interested to learn more about the Price case...maybe
it'll become an Omni magazine article later.
        Thank you, again, for your kind reply and generous offer.
                                        ==Peggy==
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: AZ Mutes
Date: 8 Nov 91 05:16:00 GMT

In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <05 Nov 91 06:51> Jim Speiser
wrote:

JS> From this, one would be tempted to conclude that Some Unknown
JS> Higher Intelligence is purposely carving up cows in a manner
JS> that resembles the modus operandi of Satanists, in order to
JS> cover its tracks. The reason I'm beginning to get a little
JS> skeptical of this is because it sounds like what one lady told
JS> me about why most people don't see UFOs: because they have the
JS> ability to change the shape of their craft so that they look
JS> like clouds (yes, she was serious!).

    I once met I Brazilian man who claimed to have a photo of a UFO
    taken in Peru. When I told him it looked like a cloud, he
    responded..."Oh no, the UFO is hiding *behind* the cloud!

 SW> I'd sure like to hear what some other pathologists have to say
 SW> about Altshuler's conclusions....some of the non-ET, non-cult
 SW> hypotheses. I've never seen anything in print anywhere. Has

JS> I, too, would like to see an independent review of Altshuler's
JS> findings.

    I heard some M.D. out east critiqued his work - I'll have to
    see what I can dig up.


 SW> Has Skeptical Inquirer ever done anything that you know of?

JS> Mostly they point to a book called "Mute Evidence" by Kagan and
JS> Summers, and write the whole thing off as predation. Little
JS> mention is made of cult activity (I wonder why, in light of
JS> Raffity's certainty that this is cult-related?)

    Judging by the evidence I've seen, predation could be the cause
    of some mutes, but certainly not all. The precisely excised
    regions of tissue is not the type of damage one would expect
    from an animals jaws.

 SW> BTW, did you know that the leading cause of "accidental" death
 SW> in cattle is electrocution by lightning?

JS> No, but it makes sense.

    I thought some of the "jaw mutilations" might be explained by
    lightning strikes, since cattle spend a great deal of time
    grazing with their moist tongue and lips to the soil, creating
    an excellent electrical ground. I asked Altshuler about this,
    and he responded that these types of wounds would exhibit
    "charring" effects, which are *not* seen in some of the facial
    mutes.

SW> I am certain that Satanic activity does account for some
SW> mutes,...

JS> Why, if there is no solid evidence? If there is, where can we
JS> read about it? See, I'm skeptical of BOTH sides on this one.

    There are some cases I've seen here in Illinois, where chest
    cavities have been savagely torn apart, and hearts removed,
    leaving little doubt that some aberrant personalities were
    involved, although the perpetrators were not apprehended.

    Anyway, please keep us informed on the latest in the AZ cases.

    Sheldon

 ---
--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Crip Circles
Date: 8 Nov 91 05:16:00 GMT

In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <02-Nov-91> Keith Basterfield
wrote:

KB> Hi Sheldon, thanks for the material "The Summer 1991 Crop
KB> Circles:The Data Emerges." It's great to see some more
KB> scientific research is being undertaken on this topic.

    You're most welcome, Keith. I hope you have also received the
    Strieber farewell letter I mailed about 10 days ago.

KB> I wonder if crop circles will strike Australia this harvesting
KB> season?

    Wouldn't be at all surprised, and I'm sure you'll keep us all
    informed as summer approaches down there. I know Vlad is
    relocating, and you'll be off-line for a few days. Talk to you
    when the system is back up.

Take care,

Sheldon

--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: End of Ogden?
Date: 8 Nov 91 05:17:00 GMT


 Hi Peggy,

 I think you've done a great job w/Ogden, but it saddens me to see
 you reach this apparent impasse. I'm sure you'll agree that this
 happens all too often in this crazy field. (As some of us might say,
 far too often to be chance alone.)

 Anyway, I shall be certain to keep you informed of anything further
 re: this story that you might find useful, but it does indeed look
 like the well has gone dry.

 Perhaps you can pick up on Jim Speiser's AZ mutilation case. At least
 people are willing to talk about that one, and I'm sure it would be of
 interest to your readers.

 Thanks again - and best of luck,

 Sheldon

--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: UFORA moving to Cairns
Date: 7 Nov 91 14:31:49 GMT

In a message to All <06 Nov 91 22:08> Vladimir Godic wrote:


 VG> UFORA HQ and Administration is moving to Cairns, tropical Far
 VG> North Queensland, on November 13, 1991. I'll poll Paranet on
 VG> Saturday evening,  (our time) November 9, for the last time
 VG> before I pack my computer and send it off to Cairns. My wife and
 VG> I are leaving on Wednesday by car. It will take us about 5-6 days
 VG> to get to Cairns. As soon as I have phone connected I'll get in
 VG> touch with Mike.

How much you wanna bet THE LANDING takes place in Sydney on November 10th, and
we won't be able to get any info out of you guys for two weeks....

Jim

--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Thomann)
Subject: AREA 51
Date: 8 Nov 91 00:29:00 GMT

I'm looking for the latest information on Lazar and AREA-51.  I'm new
's and interested in the UFO scene.  Let me know of any info.
Thanks,
Mike

--
Michael Thomann - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Ron Navarro)
Subject: satellite info
Date: 8 Nov 91 03:06:00 GMT

I need to verify some information.  I am interested in how to locate
information on satelite failure, specifically any satalites that may
have fallen to earth during  November 84 to January 85.

--
Ron Navarro - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Hicks)
Subject: Ogden Gifs
Date: 6 Nov 91 05:35:00 GMT


 > I have the Ogden gifs here for D\loading if anyone wants them.

  Are they available by freq?

                                           jbh

--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Hicks)
Subject: Crop Circles
Date: 6 Nov 91 05:40:01 GMT


 > One writer on another echo queried if anyone has done any Kirlian
 > photography studies on CC plants. Not to my knowledge, but I am
 > examining the possibility. This technique certainly could yield
 > some intriguing results, and possibly provide us with another means
 > of ascertaining authentic formations.

  I've forgotten most of what little I knew of Kirlian photography, so please
bear with me.
  Does the process yield results that really mean much of anything? Are there
certain things seen in the images that mean one thing, and other things that
mean another? Or is it more of a curiosity?

                                           jbh

--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Hicks)
Subject: lost
Date: 6 Nov 91 06:08:02 GMT


  Lost my echo feed here for a couple of weeks, so if you've written to me,
please repost.

                                           jbh

--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Pete Porro)
Subject: Re: WEIRD NIGHT ON HALLOWEEN
Date: 6 Nov 91 19:02:57 GMT

Still have not seen the whole show yet. I did have a devil of a time all
weekend (in costume) so the tape sits in the VCR waiting for me to sit still
for an hour.

I got the GIFs of the Ogden object, but the printer or program here makes
hash out of them. So I still know nothing. (as usual?)

The Orcadian is the weekly newspaper of Orkney. Nothing special in three
issues so far. Big news about a roundabout that was the first on the
mainland, and that they had three accidents the first week. The ban on
shellfish has been removed, Paralytic Shellfish Poisoning. First annual
Science Festival... Nothing about archaeology or paranormal yet.
--
Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Hicks)
Subject: Weird Night On Halloween
Date: 8 Nov 91 02:26:01 GMT


 >   and then cited the crop circles as a possible proof
 > while noting the animal mutilations as a factual proof of alien
 > visitors.

  Unfortunately neither of these things constitutes proof of alien visitations.
The only proof they provide is of strange crop formations and strange animal
mutilations. Both mysteries are still whodunits.

                                           jbh

--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Roswell
Date: 1 Nov 91 04:14:00 GMT


 > I am new to Paranet, but I have found nothing in this section about
 > Roswell, the most dramatic example of what is happening and the most
 > dramatic example of the government (almost) screwing up.  What am I
 > missing?

Just ask.  We cover a host of topics here.  We have also covered the Roswell
event in great length and will do so again if you wish to begin the
discussion.

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Heard On The Street
Date: 1 Nov 91 04:27:00 GMT


 > Also from CUFOS: The reason for the dearth of timely information on
 > Belgium has just become clear. SOBEPS, the Belgian UFO Society, was
 > writing a book. The book has just come out, and the good news is it is
 > chock full of OUTSTANDING photographs and video stills of the famous
 > triangle - not just lights in the sky, but ANOMALOUS TRIANGULAR OBJECTS
 > in broad daylight. The bad news is, its all in French. CUFOS is looking
 > for a few good translators, and I volunteered to put the word out on
 > ParaNet. I know I've seen German and Spanish spoken here, and I think
 > French as well. They would like to send out several chapters rather than
 > the whole book, as its 500 pages, and that's a bit much. Any volunteers?

Not to speak for him, but John Chalmers might be interested in taking a crack
at the french stuff.

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Revelations
Date: 1 Nov 91 04:34:00 GMT

On Sunday, October 27th, I had the great pleasure to meet with Jacques
Vallee while he was here in Denver.  He has recently published a new book
titled "Revelations."  I have read the book and will be doing a book review of
it very soon, but I did want to post something about Vallee's outstanding
work.  The book deals with the aspect of ufology that most of us will not
accept:  disinformation and who is behind it.  I am sure that most of the ufo
community will find the book caustic, however it is a very refreshing look at
just how badly the research community has faltered in their efforts to bring
an understanding of the UFO phenomena.  Get the book and read it.

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Cover Up?
Date: 8 Nov 91 07:45:00 GMT


 * Forwarded from "Alt.Alien.Visitors"
 * Originally from Robotic Systems
 * Originally dated 11-07-91 18:41

From: [e-mail] (Robotic Systems)
Date: 7 Nov 91 18:43:05 GMT
Organization: Milwaukee Information eXchange (Public access Usenet, Email)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

I apologize in advance if I was not suppose to post this after
reading it on CompuServe. If this is a wrong thing to do, please
let me know, and I will not do it again!

Is the following what really happened, or just a cover up of a real
UFO sighting by many people?

TEL AVIV (NOV. 7) DPA - A soldier who fell asleep
on guard duty had hundreds of Israelis believing
that aliens from outer space were invading their
town, and caused a full military alert to be
annouced, Israel Army Radio reported Thursday.
   Hundreds of residents of the northern town of
Bet She'an had reported seeing a mysterious circle
of light high in the sky on Tuesday night.
   Police confirmed the sighting and in
conjunction with the army declared a military
alert until the light disappeared at dawn.
   The mystery was solved the next day when it was
discovered that a soldier who nodded off at his
guard post slumped against a powerful searchlight,
flicking on its switch and directing its glaring
beam into the sky, the radio reported.
--
===============================================================================
Clint Laskowski        U.S. MAIL:  P. O. Box 552, Cudahy, Wisconsin  53110-0552
ROBOTIC SYSTEMS         INTERNET:  [e-mail]      VOICE: [phone]
===============================================================================

--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Tremors
Date: 8 Nov 91 08:05:00 GMT


 * Forwarded from "Fido UFO Echo"
 * Originally from Douglas Smith
 * Originally dated 11-03-91 21:37

   Hey folks, there have been some strange things happening down here in
Florida & Alabama. The earth has been shaking for no apparent reason!  Here's
an excerpt from yesterday's Pensacola News Journal:

UNKNOWN TREMORS SHAKE CITIZENS, BEWILDER OFFICIALS


   West Florida and South Alabama rattled Friday, but no one can explain the
mystery jolts.
   The National Earthquake Center in Golden, Colo., didn't record any tremors
in the area, but the News Journal and the Weather Service recieved several
reports of shaking at about 11 a.m. and 3:30  p.m.
   The calls came from Perdido Key, Ensley, downtown Pensacola, and Mobile,
Ala.
   "I was out in the yard working on my car and the ground started shaking
under me, so I got away," said John  Marchese of West Gregory Street near
downtown (Pens). "The windows in the house nearly broke."
   Pensacola Naval Air Station and Eglin Air Force Base spokesmen said they had
no reports of supersonic flights or other military activities that could
explain the tremors.
   "We had the same kind of weird thing happen  about two months ago, and we
didn't ever resolve what happened," said Eglin spokeswoman Lois Walsh.
   There is one major fault in the North-west Florida area, and it is inactive.
  It runs from beneath the Gulf of Mexico northwest through Santa Rosa County
and the Jay oil fields.
   It bends in a westward arc through southern Alabama, southern Mississippi,
northern Loisiana and Texas, where it ends.

   -Article by Ginny Graybiel
    of Pensacola News Journal


   Yep, it's a strange thing. I myself didn't experience the tremors this time,
but I did feel the ones that happened a few months ago. The windows start
rattling, and there is a low rumbling noise.
   That tremor happened Friday (Nov. 3rd). A second tremor occured the next day
 (Saturday, the 2nd). I'll post the article that appeared in today's paper
about it in my next message...
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: More Tremors!
Date: 8 Nov 91 08:05:00 GMT


 * Forwarded from "Fido UFO Echo"
 * Originally from Douglas Smith
 * Originally dated 11-03-91 21:51

   The following is an excerpt from the Pensacola News Journal, concerning a
series of tremors which have been shaking the Florida/Alabama area:

TREMORS CONTINUE IN AREA
-Jokester Blames Gulf Breeze UFO-


   The ground in Pensacola continued to shake Saturday, but for the second
straight day, no one could explain the tremors.
   Police and local military bases were swamped with calls Saturday from people
wanting to know what caused the ground to shake about 4 p.m.
   "It really was scary, it honestly was," said Cheryl Swanson, who felt her
house rattle.
   The tremor was strong enough to break windows and knocked the lamps off a
table at one man's Ensley home, a sheriff's dispatcher said. She said operators
answered more than 100 calls from people asking about the shake.
   What caused the ground to move is still a mystery. Similar tremors were
reported at 11 a.m. and 3:30 p.m. Friday.
   Local Military bases deny responsibility and the NAtional Earthquake
Information Center in Golden, Colo., reported (again) no tremors in the area.
Russ Needham, a geophysicist with the center, said he was stumped. "I can't say
it isn't an earthquake, but if it was, it was too small for us to detect,"
Needham said.
   He speculated that the tremor could have been caused by an aircraft
traveling at supersonic speeds.
   But officials at Eglin Air Force Base and Pensacola Naval Air Station said
the military is not responsible.
   "We don't have anything to do with it, but we're trying to find out," said
NAS Operation Specialist 2nd Class Harold Brown. "We felt it over here, also.
We're getting one call after the other."
   "It's not coming from us," Eglin spokeswoman Capt. Susan Brown said. "It
shook my back door, too, so I know what you're talking about."
   Air Force Sgt. Ronald Smith said he started recieving calls about 3:50 p.m.
from Orange Beach, Ala., to Destin (Fla).
   Matt Carter, 17, of Gulf Breeze said the kitchen windows rattled.
   Al Rappuhn, 66, who lives about three miles from NAS, said his windows
rattled and his house shook for about 10 seconds.
   "I wonder if it's that gang out in Gulf Breeze moving those UFO's on us?"

   - Article by John Fritz,
     Pensacola News Journal



   Weird, wild, wacky shtuff, eh?
--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Continuum
Date: 8 Nov 91 09:07:00 GMT

Recently, we sent out over 300 complimentary issues of ParaNet's official
bi-monthly news magazine, Continuum.  I would love to hear some feedback on
our efforts.  Also, if you haven't sent in your subscription, hurry!  The next
issue is on its way to the layout department and should be ready for mailing
in a couple of weeks.

Thanks,

Mike

--
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********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to********
                      'infopara' at the following address:

UUCP  {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom!infopara
DOMAIN  [e-mail]

 For administrative requests (subscriptions, back issues) send to:

UUCP            {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom!infopara-request
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******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************

                Info-ParaNet Newsletters   Volume I  Number 500

                           Monday, November 18th 1991

Today's Topics:

                                   Ogden Gifs
                                      Angel
                                    Strieber
                                    Implants
                                 Geographic Mag.
                                 Re: Revelations
                                    Strieber
                              unidentified organism
                                Re: "REVELATIONS"
                                  Hyser report
                             Re: The End of Freedom
                                  Hyser Report
                                  "Revelations"
                                     (none)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Mike Keithly)
Subject: Ogden Gifs
Date: 9 Nov 91 04:24:01 GMT


 >> I have the Ogden gifs here for D\loading if anyone wants them.

 >   Are they available by freq?

Poll me here and I will set them aside, remember they are the sketches not the
laser photos.  Peggy Noonan will have those I hope soon..
                        Mike Keithly

 > ---
 >  * Origin: UFINET//PARANET//MUFONET//ODYSSEY [phone]
 > (1:363/29)

--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Angel
Date: 7 Nov 91 23:08:00 GMT

Thanks for checking for that reference for me. Much appreciated.

--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Strieber
Date: 7 Nov 91 23:12:00 GMT

Hi Sheldon, Thanks for that copy of the Communion Letter with
Strieber's farewell speech. In the text he seems to be looking at the
concept of the "imaginal world", i.e. a location which can at times be
physical and at other times 'mental.' I hear US psychologist Kenneth
Ring is working on a book about abductions, with this "imaginal world"
in mind as the explanation. Ring was formely deep into research on
Near Death Experiences. Thanks again for the copy.

--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Keith Sonerson UFORA Associate VIC
)
Subject: Implants
Date: 1 Nov 91 06:39:00 GMT


Hello Peggy...


 > >Peggy, in a message on 12th Oct you mentioned a radio
 > show>which included a man who talked about a personal
 > abduction and
 > >implant.
 > >Do you by chance have any further details on him?



 >         name:  Richard Price
 >         He says he was implanted by aliens and that
 > the implant or probe has been removed and is in the
 > hands of scientists at MIT and they're baffled about
 > what it is.  "They don't what type of device it
 > is...they only thing they've come up with is a
 > chemical analysis.  I just got the report...We're not
 > sure if it's a device of some kind -- it's a chemical
 > of some kind.  The scientist does not know what it is.
 >  He didn't exactly come out and say that it is a
 > material that isn't made here on this earth."
 >         He had it in his body for 35 years and knew it
 > was there. When asked why he waited so long to find
 > out about it, he said "that's when it decided to come
 > out"  and it came out about 2 years ago.  He was
 > implanted at age 8.
 >         ---That's from the opening of the interview.
 >         I will get more to you when I can.  Does this
 > help?  Perhaps you know this person or his story?  He
 > says he's told the story a number of times.
 >
 > ==Peggy==

This case sounds very interesting.

If at all possible, I would like to obtain a copy of your
audio tape. I would send you the postage and cost prior to
you sending it to me,

Can you provide any more insight as to the physical and
structural characteristics?

Regards,

Keith Sonerson

--
Keith Sonerson UFORA Associate VIC - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: Geographic Mag.
Date: 9 Nov 91 06:16:00 GMT


 > Th Nat'l Geographic issue June 1983 has a great feature story
 > onTHE UNIVERSE.  Although that quote I was looking for on
 > Jupiter did not appear in this issue (the way I remembered),
 > it's possible the quote was in another issue.  I'm still
 > checking.

Hi Linda,
Many thanks for that.

 > However, there was a reference to Jupiter being a "brown dwarf."
 >  It reads:
 >       Jupiter is such an object (a brown dwarf), too small to
 > "turn on" by nuclear fusion but still shedding heat from its
 > collapse.  Brown dwarfs cannot be seen at great distances but
 > may well account for a large part of a galaxy's mass.

I remember reading about Jupiter being "a brown dwarf" and too
small to turn into a star. Anyway by the time I come back 'on the air"
you'll probably have more info. See you in two weeks time.
Regards,
Vlad
 > I hope I gave you something of use.  If I am misinformed, I know
 > someone like (Clark Matthews) will rescue me.  <:-)
 >
 > Regards,
 >
 > Linda
 >
 > June '83 Nat'l Geographic, p. 717

--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Schuyler)
Subject: Re: Revelations
Date: 9 Nov 91 18:25:00 GMT

In a message to All <10-31-91 21:34> Michael Corbin wrote:

MC>  On Sunday, October 27th, I had the great pleasure to meet with
MC>  Jacques Vallee while he was here in Denver.  He has recently
MC>  published a new book titled "Revelations."  I have read the book and
MC>  will be doing a book review of it very soon, but I did want to post
MC>  something about Vallee's outstanding work.  The book deals with the
MC>  aspect of ufology that most of us will not accept:  disinformation
MC>  and who is behind it.  I am sure that most of the ufo community will
MC>  find the book caustic, however it is a very refreshing look at just
MC>  how badly the research community has faltered in their efforts to
MC>  bring an understanding of the UFO phenomena.  Get the book and read
MC>  it.

I would like to second this opinion. This new book is clearly one of th
most lucid treatments of the contemporary scene in existence. Vallee also
brings an international flavor to the UFO problem that I think we often miss
by concentrating on North American happenings. Well worthwhile. Buy it in
hardback!
--Michael S.

--
Michael Schuyler - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Strieber
Date: 11 Nov 91 03:38:01 GMT



Hello Keith, glad to hear you received the Strieber letter. I agree
with you that he seems to be emphasizing the "imaginal world" as
the region of mind where the "visitors" reside.

Strieber states that the key to whom they [visitors] choose, is
that they "choose the ones who have run out of alternatives, who
have no inner circle left but to trust the dark. When a person who
yearns inwardly for change reaches the psychological breaking
point, the visitors may come in through the cracks in that person's
wall of belief. There are things at large in the night of the soul;
the visitors live there." If that's true, I can certainly see why
they chose him...since he's way beyond the breaking point.

The letter is filled with contradictions of his earlier statements,
but is written with a style that should continue to captivate his
converts, of which there are many. I used to be a member of a
"Communion" group here in Chicago, but was expelled by the group
facilitator for being "too scientific", and not in need of support.
The small group continues, without support from Whitley, and from
what I hear from a friend that still attends the meetings,
has deteriorated into nothing more than a social club of
questionable value.

I too look forward to Kenneth Ring's book on abductions along with
David Jacobs' work which is due out in March. They should both make
interesting reading.

Take care,

Sheldon

--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com!vanth!jms
Subject: unidentified organism
Date: 11 Nov 91 06:33:32 GMT

From: vanth![e-mail] (Jim Shaffer)

I saw this on ABC a while ago and I was waiting to see if anyone else on
the net was going to mention it, but aside from someone on Usenet (who had
the location wrong) I haven't heard anything.  I figure I can't let it get
any older.

The story (reported, I think, on November 1) is as follows:

About 'a month ago', the police in St. Louis, Missouri, found a box
alongside the road 'near Highway 100 and Deer Creek Road in West County'.
Inside the box was a glass jar full of vinegar, and in the vinegar was the
'blob'.  It consists of four parts, of which one is a tentacle.  It has no
bones or hair. The police say that Woods Hole marine biology lab, in
Massachusetts, told them they thought it was a land animal rather than a
marine animal. (The reason for this wasn't mentioned.)  A veterinarian at
the St. Louis zoo couldn't identify it.  It allegedly has no identifiable
cartilage, tendons, nerves, or blood vessels.  Aside from the tentacle, it
appears to be an elastic brown/grey ball, divided into two hemispheres
joined at the bottom.  (I don't know if it was found that way or if they
cut it open.)  It has cavities inside the hemispheres. I couldn't see any
other features in the hemispheres; the texture appeared smooth and if I
remember rightly it was fairly homogenous.  I really can't describe the
tentacle or the other part.

I found it interesting that absolutely no-one in the report, from the
police officer to the veterinarian to the reporter, was identified either
verbally or by caption.

Is anyone close enough to St. Louis to look into this? As of the time of
the report, the police still had the body.  The reporter was stupid enough
to mention where they were keeping it, as a matter of fact.

--
 *  From the disk of: | [e-mail]         | I'm in a groove now
 Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms        | -- or is it a rut?
 37 Brook Street      | [e-mail] |
 Montgomery, PA 17752 | [e-mail]      | (Rush, 'Face Up')






--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Kay Mclaughlin)
Subject: Re: "REVELATIONS"
Date: 6 Nov 91 06:29:00 GMT


 DE> Ballantine  Books and read a great deal of it this weekend. Yes, in my
 DE> opinion Vallee  will once more stand the UFO field on its collective
 DE> head.

 DE> No, I would guess that many people in the UFO field will not take
 DE> kindly to  Vallee's assessment of the flying disks and the people that
 DE> chase them. What  will be interesting however, is to see how long it
 DE> takes before many people  are screaming that "Vallee must be a
 DE> government plant". That seems to be the  fate of anyone who breaks from
 DE> the fold. I still think that he is one hell  of a researcher, and I do
 DE> NOT agree with all his conclusions, but I DO think they are necessary.
                                             ^ ^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^
As far as the "screaming" it has already begun. After spending nearly
two weeks on a business trip, my generous employer gave me a day off. I
was flipping around and saw Vallee on "Sonya Live" on CNN. I missed the
first 3 mins. but taped the rest. He was promoting the new book, and
took audience calls

A caller came in from New jersey (ellen chrystal) has a book coming out
next march saying that Valee was accused in a Paris Match article as
being part of the disinformation campaign.

To which he replied:
Everybody has been accusing everybody else, there is obviously a party
line here and that party line is that we are being visited by
extraterrestrials. All I can tell you is that as scientist I can not
jump to that conclusion yet it is one of the hypotheses,
there are many other possibilities.

When Sonya asked about abductions, he replied:

The burden is on the scientists to examine the physical data and the
physiological data. At the same time my concern with the methods that
have been used to study abduction cases is that in most cases hypnosis
has been used in a way that I think is totally irresponsible and in a
way that would not be accepted by the scientific community. The
standards have been very loose, in some cases ideas have been planted in
the minds of the witnesses.

Regards,
Kay


--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Hicks)
Subject: Hyser report
Date: 10 Nov 91 09:12:00 GMT


  Here's the scoop on the Hyser report (so far).
  Rex Salisberry says he has a copy of William Hyser's report on some of
Ed Walter's photos but can't release it to us yet because of a committment he
made to Hyser to not release the report without his (Hyser) permission.
  Jerry Black sent a copy to Phil Klass, and Phil quoted a little of it in his
newsletter. Rex said Hyser went through the roof.
  Anyway, the gist of the report is that Hyser found quite a few things in the
photos that were *consistent with* multiple exposures, but nothing that
constituted *proof* of multiple exposures.
  I think we've already discussed most of those items and picked the photos
apart, but of course we don't have any clout so we don't really count. ;-)
  Also, in the October 1991 _Photomethods_, (a journal for commercial/
industrial photographers) Hyser went through an example of how to do a multiple
exposure and have the object appear to be behind another darker object. The
example was a ufo behind a church steeple at night (surprise!)
  Anyway, he presents the idea of the film's threshold sensitivity as being
the key to having a foreground object appear black against a slightly light
object.
  Look at Ed Walter's photo #1, in which we see a ufo behind a tree branch.
Keep that in mind.
  Now I'll walk through the threshold sensitivity thing, in plain English. In
the graphic arts and photolab industries, the process is called flashing, so
you guys familiar with that stuff will now already know what I'm talking about.
  Photographic film (paper etc.) requires a minimum amount of light for an
image to "stick." For example, let's say the threshold is five photon (units
of light). If the film receives only four photons, they'll most likely
dissipate before you develop the film. If the film receives more than five
photons, they "stick" and you have a latent image (waiting to be developed).
  So, an area of film that receives only four photons will be black (clear)
and an area that receives six photons will have density.
  Listen closely now.....
  A ufo model is first photographed against a black background, and is exposed
just below the threshold, say, just under five photons. If you were to develop
the film, you'd see no image.
  *But* you make a second exposure on the same sheet of film. The second
exposure consists of a black tree and an illuminated skyline. You make this
exposure slightly underexposed.
  Where the tree overlaps the ufo, the film doesn't receive any additional
light, so you have a total exposure still of just under five photons; no image.
The combination of the skyline *and* the ufo below-the-threshold image make up
more than five photons, so not only do you have the skyline image, you've
kicked the ufo image over the five-photon threshold too; you have an image of a
ufo against a skyline, with a (black) tree that appears to be in front of the
ufo.
  *But* such a multiple exposure isn't without artifacts. The very dark image
of the ufo will tend to take on the colors of the background. Sort of a
chameleon effect.
  Also, to heighten the contrast between the ufo image and the skyline, you
can develop the film for a longer time (Polaroid 108 too).
  Now, take another good close look at the Ed Walters photos......
  My opinion? (since you didn't ask)
  This process is certainly workable, and wouldn't be anywhere near as
cumbersome as masking techniques in the darkroom, then printing onto Polaroid
etc. But it'd be hard to control. But certainly workable.
  I think we have another valid hoax theory. Not proof, but a theory that can
explain photo #1.
  William G. Hyser is a consultant in optical instrumentation, photogrammetry,
forensic engineering, electrical contact physics and illumination engineering.
Perhaps best of all, he's not a ufologist.

                                           jbh

--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Steve Rose)
Subject: Re: The End of Freedom
Date: 9 Nov 91 23:13:00 GMT


 CM> Hello, Steve.  Every scenario is a "live at the top" scenario,
 CM> wouldn't you agree?  It helps to be on the winning side, of
 CM> course -- the people at the top of history's dustbin experience
 CM> lots of problems as a rule.

Those at the bottom experience a lot more.  Nature of things and all...

 CM> BTW, sounds like you speak from personal experience about how
 CM> unaccountable NatSec funds never get to the lowly technical levels

Let's not get into specific areas...but do you think that mob (sic) is
the only organization that knows how to get their laundry so clean?

 > The old addage, "_______ are people, too" seems to fit.

 CM> Gee, somehow this fails to reassure me, Steve.  I personally wish
 CM> that the "local grunts" would get real jobs.

To them...that IS their job!  Who should assure them that they would
can no future in it and should go out in this recession-riddled world to
find other work!?  To some of them...it is 'cushy'...to others, a daily
struggle.  The electronic side may be fun and mysterious to you...but is
it all wires...bolts...and 9-volt Radio Shack batteries in the bee-hive.

 CM> Okay, okay, call me a bad-tempered bastard who refuses to
 CM> acknowledge the humanity of the people who tap my phones, snoop
 CM> on these message echos (as human BBS callers and thru anonymous UNIX
 CM> FTPs) and who may someday come knocking on my door at 5 a.m.

Much like the police...private gum-shoes...and insurance fraud hounds...or
are they, too, in a dead end non-respective line of work?  And why
should anyone come 'knocking at 5:00am?'  10:00am is a more respectable
hour!  Perhaps you should re-print your party invitations.   ;-)

 CM> I think that people in these organizations will find, provoke, or
 CM> fabricate reasons to preserve themselves and their power.  Since
 CM> I don't work for them, this possibility does bother me.

On the contrary...you seem QUITE bothered by them.  All they do is
punch their clock as anyone else would.  They are not monsters (at
least not after their second cup of coffee).  They do not 'relish' their
authority unless they have this insatiable appetite for paperwork.  And
they are certainly NOT after you unless you are a known
menace to society.  As of 11-09-91...you are not.

Yes...I know this sounds all goody-two shoes and winning-team and
such...but to paint this ominous picture of big-brotherism, is about as
believable and laughable as the supermarket tabloid corps.
Sorry, but there's no K.I.T.T. mobile in any Knight Foundation, either.

 CM> an extraordinary number of people are worried and disillusioned
 CM> about the alaming stories of gov't covert operations, domestic
 CM> operations, secret funding, murdered reporters, and all the rest.

Oh pleeeease.  What is so 'secret' about these publically KNOWN groups?
They may not tell YOU all that they do...but they exist and the public
knows of them and their stated purpose.  Next, you'll be saying how
'Greys' really run the country and that WAS a Grey photographed arm in arm
with Bush...who must also be a Grey in disguise.  Oppps...forget that.
Someone in another group already beat you to it.  ;-)

 CM> There's also palpable public disgust and dismay that the entire
 CM> political/government/extragovermental system is out of reach,
 CM> above change, and only serves itself.

And the sun rises in the east.  Big deal.
Mixing bits of unrelated truism in any claims does not validate its reality.

 > Quite an imagination!  As they say nowadays..."Sell it to
 > Hollywood."
 >
 CM> Well, maybe 48 Hours?  Or EG&G?

Somehow, I believe they are not willing to smear whatever above-board
reputation they may be enjoying...even during a sweeps month.  :-)

 > Just put in your 80+ years and check out like a true
 > champ.  We're not going anywhere, either.   ;-)
 CM>
 CM> Who's "We"?  You and your tapeworm?

Me and the six billion plus people on the globe's surface and their pet
platypuses.  Although the platypus will probably outlive most of us.





--
Steve Rose - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Hyser Report
Date: 11 Nov 91 12:49:00 GMT

Thanks for your work and presentation of this to ParaNet.

Mike

--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Burke)
Subject: "Revelations"
Date: 12 Nov 91 07:55:00 GMT

Don Ecker writes:

 > No, I would guess that many people in the UFO field will
 > not take kindly to Vallee's assessment of the flying disks
 > and the people that chase them. What will be interesting
 > however, is to see how long it takes before many people are
 > screaming that "Vallee must be a government plant". That
 > seems to be the fate of anyone who breaks from the fold. I
 > still think that he is one hell of a researcher, and I do
 > NOT agree with all his conclusions, but I DO think they are
 > necessary.

I agree.  I haven't read _Revelations_ yet, but I got a real kick
out of Jerry Clark's critique of it.  I had read _Confrontations_
before reading Clark's critique of that work and I felt that
Jerry had pinpointed all of Vallee's shortcomings and put them
right under the microscope.

Although Vallee provides us with a unique and essential
perspective on ufology, I think that Jerry Clark "has his
number".  -- In other words, in spite of the pedestal on which
Vallee stands, he's just another human being like the rest of us,
subject to the same flaws and capable of the same mistakes --
even those about which he writes.
                                       --  John

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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: wam.umd.edu!infinity
Subject: (none)
Date: 13 Nov 91 00:33:12 GMT

From: David Elmore Coleman <[e-mail]>

Egyptologist Fright/Euphoria

 In a September/October USA Today article in the Arts or Leisure
or you-know-that-section, the findings of a Boston University
Geologist concerning the Sphinx are discussed. The scientist,
I do not have the article with me but I will follow this up,
confirmed the suspicions of an independent, maverick archaeologist who
he had, needless to say, not respected. The Sphinx is 'at least 8 to
10 thousands years old' according to the article in USA Today, and
according to the detailed erosion patterns of the base of the Sphinx.
On October 23rd, some national association of geologists met in
San Diego to hear the findings. I am hoping to find the address of this
national organization so that I may receive a copy of the proceedings.
I believe the geologist has an article of his own coming, but I cannot
remember.
 Perhaps the Sphinx does indeed harken back to the Age of Leo,
which was between about 12,500 and 10,350 years ago. Those 'Ages' are a
connection between man and the heavens, so the Sphinx was made part Man
and part Lion (are there any other aspects? they might also be symbolic.)
Mystics will be happy that they have another piece of evidence supporting
their views of Egypt's past. (There are certain stellae that support a
similar deep age for the Great Pyramid at Giza, but archaeologists hate
these stellae simply out of what they purport.) The measurement of the
cycle of precession of the 'Ages' is to five digits accuracy some
measurement of cross diagonals in the Great Pyramid.  Don't make the
WIDESPREAD skeptic mistake of assuming the 'standard ruler' was guessed:
the so-called pyramidal cubit is evident in the many of the measurements
of the pyramid being integer multiples of it. Also don't make the ill-educated
mistake of thinking that the Zodiac is based simply on constellations
and because of precession of the Earth the Zodiac becomes meaningless.
Rather, the Zodiac was *based solely on precession*, and was divided
into twelve sections because of consideration of energy geometry (such
as the octapole and hexadecapole probability distributions surrounding
a hydrogen atom -- just 12 instead of 8 or 16.) This meant the ecliptic was
effectively divided in twelve, and what better way to mark this for the
populace than picking the twelve most significant-looking groupings of
stars in the sky that would mark the times in between the twelve smooth
transitions, transitions like the Dawning of Aquarius. As anti-astrologers
point out, and as different cultural astronomies around the world attest, a
group of stars is almost as bad as a Rorschach test, so that a happy medium
could presumably have been reached between the supposed meaning (or vibrational
rate) of one of the twelve Eras and what the constellation actually
looks like on the sky. Or, perhaps, some of existing descriptions of
contellations metamorphosed slowly to ones the priests considered more
representative of the Eras they were supposed to symbolize.

 By the way, does anybody know if an extra-old Sphinx throws
a wrench into Z. Sitchin's Velikovshiish-Danikenish theories
by wrenching his timetable of suppositions? (Good! good!)

 Beyond the Ages, any significance in astrology becomes obscured.
Does anyone know if the Period of the precession is related to the
orbital periods and masses of the other planets? Bode's Law also
remains a mystery that could be at the same level where astrology may
come from. Bode's Law a mascroscopic law, such as that
which causes mud to crack in hexagonal patterns (in other words, this
kind of law gets 'disturbed' by other like laws that muddy it (ugh, pun.))
Bode's Law concerns the apparent attempt for the planets to follow
a pattern of spacing. It seems to have to do with why asteroids form
a somewhat concise belt between Jupiter and Mars.
 I presume that through the importance of form, meaning, order and
synchronicity between events, which is stressed in the New Physics
of David Bohm, F. David Peat, etc one could explain how on some level
of energy structure in the solar system, planets have more than their
extremely weak gravitational influence upon one another. Actually, with
Bode's Law, a gravity instability or radial anisotropy of mass in the
forming solar system, possibly caused by the arrangements of stars
passing by during the formative era, could cause the regular ultimate
set up of planets to form in ways slightly out of whack with the way
Bode's Law would appear under ideal conditions. So, the Asteroid Planet
never accumulates enough mass to cause it to develop into a single object
instead of a parade of stones. Next door, an enormous Jupiter uses the
mass anisotropy to unbalance its forces so that it has a net greater
attraction for the formative material that is in Asteroid Territory.
So, Jupiter robs the asteroids and perhaps Mars as well. Passing stars may
have somehow stolen energy from Neptune, causing it to be closer to
Uranus in its  final orbit, and possibly larger than it otherwise would
have been, as nonsmooth activity, like that of the passing star, in gas
dynamics tends to cause a less smooth mass distribution, allowing
Neptune to perhaps gain mass at a crest (not a well) of the distribution.
Now when I mention higher levels of 'energy structure' as means by which
astrology and Bode's Law might operate, I don't mean presently known energy
structure. I mean an expanded idea of energy such that known forms are
simply part of a smooth (or quantized!) spectrum. The idea is almost like
when we had kinetic energy, but had to expand the whole *concept* of energy
by deciding to expand to include Potential Energy. As many of you probably
know, powerful new physics is most often created by simply expressing
existing laws as first derivatives of higher laws (mathematical term here,
not the simple English word 'derivative'.) One example is saying, F=dP/dt.
(There is a way different from derivatives also: E=(1/2)mv^2 is complete,
but there became also a more elaborate E=((P*c)^2 + ((1/2?)m*c*c)^2)^0.5.)
Below is an example, which would require us to redefine how we express units!
It is only an example of how much room there is, and of how confined one
can feel by the lunacy of Hawking & Co. believing they can express
everything as singularities et al. This formula is not meant to be
correct, and it means that for n where *traditional* units *appear* not
to be satisfied, the energy is not a *traditional* form of energy.
As an analogue, calling expressions of the below at two different n
as Energy, is just like calling velocity, acceleration and jerk three
different kinds of 'motex.' One could hypothetically consider "motex" a
fundamental 'quantity' I suppose.

n=dimension           I'm trying to reconstruct this from memory, so
              d^n            I think I may actually have this wrong.
Energy = E  X ---- X  Space^n
          O   dt^n

OK, now for some UFOlogy in this posting, would anybody care
to work out something with me so that they can send me the articles
on the Mund(r)abilla case (Australia) either from MUFON (supposedly in
#239 and/or #241) or UFO Research Australia? I particularly wish to
have a referencible source on the study of velocity characteristics of
the ash-like substance, done at Monash University. This would help me
with my coverage of UFOs in Chapter 4 of my book. Once I get a
preliminary copyright in advance of getting a publisher, I will try to
post excerpts on Paranet in order to see how, in particular, the skeptic
mindset, which is a difficult perspective for me to see from, will deal
with some of my new ideas.
 This is especially so that I do not phrase
my ideas in ways which cause misunderstanding, or which allow a skeptic
the usual trick of misinterpreting just exactly what a piece of
evidence is being used to show. Here I recall Dr. Bruce Maccabee's
pains to keep the importance of the Gulf Breeze photographs in its
proper role in the case (notable is his reply to the Salisberry's
analysis.) Another example of this misunderstanding would be a skeptic
replying to the above commentary on the Sphinx and the Ages by summarily
stating, 'The idea of the Sphinx representing Man/Leo is preposterous
because it is all based on simply *strands* of evidence and reference to
other things that are not proven.' This person has completely missed the
point of the material. Ideas such as those of mysticism are not to be
viewed simply as wild-eyed claims that are wrong until proven right.
They are simply 'knowledges you intuit are correct' that *wait* for
science to catch up. Often the line of defence by mystics is against
attempts by skeptics to show inconsistency *within mystic or ufological*
doctrines. Or, it is to defend against attempts by skeptics to show part
of science actually eliminates the possibility of an alleged phenomenon.
When this defense appears to the mystic (sorry, I am including ufologists
in this label) that it is successfully made (the words make sense,) the
skeptic then says, 'but you have proved nothing; you have no physical
evidence.' The mystic then gets a confused pit-of-stomach feeling they
don't understand. What the mystic is missing is the recognition that
the skeptic's statement is effectively an attempt to change the
history of the argument. The skeptic is almost ludicrously implying,
sort of unintentionally, that to defend against skeptic's point A
that says some part of science kills the alleged phenomenon, the proponent
must do more than show that science does *not* necessarily kill the alleged
phenomenon (and the proponent did this when he/she 'successfully made'
a defence -- see that quote if you wish.) The proponent must go beyond the
successful defense and actually prove with physical evidence that the
phenomenon definitely exists. This is a misunderstanding I see all too
often and have only recently been able to catch people doing *before* re-
musing the topic a day later to figure out what exactly the argument was.
Every time science looks like it is about to catch up with a kernel
of truth, like let us say with the crop circles, science scatters off on a
tangent, like wind vortices, although it does so at a point closer to the
atom of truth than it did before. Once the errant avenue (usually errant
by an attempt to stay reductionist) the next approach will come at least
as close to the atom of truth before scattering far off.

      David E. Coleman
      Graduating Senior
         of Astronomy
      University of Maryland

Gee, I guess it has been over since months since I put up an article!




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******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************

                Info-ParaNet Newsletters   Volume I  Number 501

                           Monday, November 18th 1991

Today's Topics:

                              Crop circles and SHC
                          The Latest on UK Crop Circles
                             Equinox on Crop Circles
                    Belgian sightings on 'Unsolved Mysteries'
                                     (none)
                                Re: Hyser report
                                   Re: (none)
                                  Hyser Report
                                   sphinx age
                                   UFO survey
                                  David Jacobs
                                     (none)
                                    question?
                                    interview

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: doc.imperial.ac.uk!aixssc.ibm.co.uk!rob
Subject: Crop circles and SHC
Date: 13 Nov 91 05:15:44 GMT

From: Robert Trevelyan <[e-mail]>


Sheldon,

 Thanks for the note and fascinating story about the poor
 unlucky man from Budapest. I have no real theories about
 SHC but feel that is in itself a phenomenon as I can remember
 reading a while back about the Mary Reeser case that Clark
 wrote about. I saw a photo in a book of the room after this woman
 had 'burst into flames' and apart from ash of the woman remaining
 the room was untouched. I feel the Budapest incident could well be
 a form of ball lightning as it is well accepted that hundreds of
 people are hit, and some killed, by ordinary fork lightning.
 I seems quite credible for other forms of lightning to exist.
 Are you aware of any overhead electrical power lines in the area that
 this chap from Budapest was killed as this may also be a possibility.

 I have absolutely no idea how SHC fits into the crop circle
 phenomenon and as it is so rare I can't imagine Jenny Randles
 will have too many people come forward, especially as most of the
 first hand witnesses are probably dead.

 Thanks again.

 Regards, Robert

----
Robert Trevelyan   UKnet: [e-mail]
AIX Communications    VNET: TREVELR at NHBVM7
     Voice: [phone]




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: doc.imperial.ac.uk!aixssc.ibm.co.uk!rob
Subject: The Latest on UK Crop Circles
Date: 13 Nov 91 05:16:28 GMT

From: Robert Trevelyan <[e-mail]>


 On the 26th of October I went to a crop circle conference
 hosted by a local Wiltshire radio station called GWR. This
 was hosted by a GWR presenter but the two main speakers were
 Pat Delgado and George Wingfield.

 The first part was presented by Pat D but I felt that the
 events of the last few months had left their toll on him
 as he seemed very forgetful, vague and was having a great
 deal of trouble getting to grips with the microphone.
 He spent about 45 minutes talking about the progression of
 the crop circle phenomenon from plain circles to elaborate
 pictograms but unfortunately he got on the subject of the
 spiritual aspects of this strange phenomenon and never left
 it. He made quite many references to God and the like and
 in doing this only managed to show about one eight of the slides
 he had brought with him before he was stopped for a break.
 He did talk briefly about the day he got caught up in the Today
 farce and said that he had been publically humiliated and the
 paper had not printed what he had said and had changed some of the
 quotes.

 After the 20 minute break George Wingfield talked a bit about
 evolution and touched on the D+D hoax. He showed a great deal
 of slides of the 1991 formations including the Mandelbrot and
 the one at Barbury Castle. He spoke that he felt there were
 now people who 'knew what it was all about'. He had previously
 said to the radio presenter that he could take him to some
 people who could explain what the phenomenon was and what it meant.
 This I believe is the Hopi Indians and I understand that they
 believe the crop circle phenomenon is a warning from the earth, a
 living planet, affected by our spiritual awakenings that the earth
 is in a bad state and something must be done soon.

 The last part of the evening was to open the floor up for questions
 and one man asked if the speakers knew what was causing the effect.
 The answer he got was that they believed they did know but were not
 prepared to give that information at this point as they felt it would
 be too hard for people to understand. The man that asked this question
 went completely ape at this answer and challenged tha 'panel' that he
 was the best judge whether he believed what they said not them.
 The panel gave the answer that anyone who wanted to find out 'what it
 was all about' should sit in a circle and watch all around and listen,
 take in everything and this would give them the answer, but the
 impression given was that it was a spiritual thing. The rest of the
 questioning turned into a complete farce although George did talk
 briefly about the D+D saga and mentioned the fact that there is only
 MBF companies registered in the UK. One is in Scotland and is called
 MBF Limited and the other is the Maiden Beech Farm (MBF Consultancy)
 in West Crewkerne. Both are known to work on government contracts.

 George is a friend of mine and before the evening started I spoke to
 him about the D+D hoax and he played me a tape of a conversation
 the deputy editor of Today had with a caller. The editor actually
 totally admitted to MBF being a 'freelance newsagency', although this
 does not prove the MBF are working for the UK government it does show
 that he is either lying or has been given incorrect information as the
 company MBF Services are not listed as a newsagency at all in the
 latest list of press companies. Any newsagnecy would need a phone
 number, MBF does not, except the disconnected one mistakenly given out
 by one of Todays staff. They would need an address, the only one ever
 given is an accomodation address with their accountants in Shepton
 Mallet, not that far from West Crewkerne, etc. etc. What sort of
 newsagency doesn't need a phone number or an address or a contact
 name? A newsagency that does not generate news.

 I did manage to speak to Pat D. for about ten minutes after the show
 and asked him the question, if someone could come up with the absolute
 proof that Dave and Doug did not create the 200 crop circles they have
 claimed to, although they have never showed any photographs, videos or
 anything to prove that being the case, did he think any paper would
 dare to print it. He was catagorick that no British paper would print
 this even if it could be proved as it was deeper than that, whatever
 that means.

 My opinion is that no-one will ever challenge the Today story before
 next 'season' and when the next years crop arrives the majority of
 people will still believe crop circles to be hoaxes either by D+D or
 by copy cat hoaxers. I think if anyone can prove that D+D did not
 create the crop circle phenomenon, although many interested in crop
 circles know they did not create 200 elaborate formations in the dark
 with planks of wood, they should go to a non-British newspaper who
 are totally known for printing about coverups. I also believe that
 Pat Delgado will retire from the crop circle scene next year, I hope
 he does not but its just a feeling.
Regards, Robert

--
Robert Trevelyan   UKnet: [e-mail]
AIX Communications    VNET: TREVELR at NHBVM7
     Voice: [phone]




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: doc.imperial.ac.uk!aixssc.ibm.co.uk!rob
Subject: Equinox on Crop Circles
Date: 13 Nov 91 05:16:56 GMT

From: Robert Trevelyan <[e-mail]>


 The Channel 4 program Equniox, not BBC2 as I first said, was screened
 on the 27th October and was dedicated to the crop circle phenomenon.
 This was I felt slightly tainted, there was the vortex theory put
 forward by Dr. Meaden and the hoax theory was attemted to be
 dis-proved by CCCS.(although they got caught in a hoax situation by
 the Wessex Skeptics) There was at no point mention of the theories
 of CCCS and to my surprise no interview with George Wingfield although
 he had told me over the last 6 months or so he had been doing interviews with Channel 4 for a docume
ntary
about circles. I felt that including
 Busty Taylor, Richard Andrews, Michael Green and Ralph Noyes in the
        interview did not give enough proof of another possibility that crop
        circles could be something else. I know George would have given some
        very hard to explain facts about circles and possibly because of this
        he was left off the program. George Wingfield is the outspoken
 principle field researcher with CCCS and in my opinion would have
 challenged the hoax and vortex theory. Did anyone else see the program
 and if so what was your opinion of the documentary.
Regards, Robert
--
Robert Trevelyan   UKnet: [e-mail]
AIX Communications    VNET: TREVELR at NHBVM7
     Voice: [phone]




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com!vanth!jms
Subject: Belgian sightings on 'Unsolved Mysteries'
Date: 14 Nov 91 13:35:08 GMT

From: vanth![e-mail] (Jim Shaffer)

In case it hasn't been mentioned already (I haven't been paying much
attention lately), the Belgian UFO sightings will be covered on next week's
episode of 'Unsolved Mysteries'.

--
 *  From the disk of: | [e-mail]         | I'm in a groove now
 Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms        | -- or is it a rut?
 37 Brook Street      | [e-mail] |
 Montgomery, PA 17752 | [e-mail]      | (Rush, 'Face Up')




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: wam.umd.edu!infinity
Subject: (none)
Date: 14 Nov 91 21:19:07 GMT

From: David Elmore Coleman <[e-mail]>


Sphinx -- exact reference


I said I would get the precise reference on the sphinx, so...

October 10, 1991, USA Today, page 6D.
'The latest mystery of the Sphinx: His age'

Findings heard Oct. 23, 1991 at the Geological Society of America's annual
 meeting in San Diego.
Boston University geologist Robert Schoch (Phd -- Yale) first dismissed
'rogue Egyptologist' John Anthony West's claims. But after studying the
Sphinx for a year, Schoch 'says he's convinced the Sphinx and the ditch
around it were exposed to' serious rainfall for at least a thousand
years. 'And that means the Sphinx could not have been built before the
Sahara became a desert... it couldn't have been built by any of the
pharoahs.'
 I note: As the ice age ended, 15,000 to 7,000 years ago, the Sahara
transformed into a desert, and Egypt became drier and drier.

'The Sphinx bears characteristic marks of water erosion, not sand and wind
erosion like most of Egypt's monuments....'
'Mud brick tombs 20 miles from the Sphinx that are 5,000 years old bear no
signs of exposure to water.'
'Seismological readings show that the floor toward the Sphinx's
front has weathered twice as much as the floor at the rear, suggesting
the main body of the sphinx is twice as old as its rear end, West says.
The Pharoah Chephren may have sculpted the rear.'
 I don't know what is meant by 'weathered,' precisely.

      More galactic thoughts from:
Amicitia Subjugat Omnia    Hweohthte... (Hwe-oath-T)
   ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
David E. Coleman    [e-mail]
8125 48th Ave, Apt. 612
College Park, MD 20740    1-(301)-474-7424
   ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Schuyler)
Subject: Re: Hyser report
Date: 13 Nov 91 05:50:00 GMT

In a message to all <11-10-91 02:12> John Hicks wrote:

JH>    Here's the scoop on the Hyser report (so far).
etc...
John, a fascinating post! Thank you. It seems to me this is an ideal area
where the 'UFO community' (if there is one and i hate the phrase anyway)
could implement some pretty solid 'controls' on pictures like these. One of
the sticky points on these 'encounters' is: How do we explain the knowledge
of these techniques borne by the suspect? Frankly, I can explain it with Ed
pretty easily in my own mind. I still ahve a hard time with Meier, the one
armed expert photographer, but anyway....the major point being that anytime
we get 'good' photographs, it probably isn't good enough just to say, "Well,
these can be hoaxed using the following principles." Instead, why not have a
SWAT team that immediately sets out to hoax the same pictures--in full view
with witnesses--so that it can be shown how easily it can be accomplished. I
know photography is getting less and less valid as proof now that imaging
techniques are getting so good, but still, it seems to me this might be a
worthwhil etechnique to use (plus I think it would be lots of fun :-)
--Michael

--
Michael Schuyler - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Schuyler)
Subject: Re: (none)
Date: 13 Nov 91 06:05:00 GMT

nc>  Gee, I guess it has been over since months since I put up an article!

Good Lord! I just copied this off to a file. I can't handle all this online.
It DOES remind me of a fellow I knew who talked of astrology as being a red
herring, in that grease rivulets in frying pans could denote just as many
correlations, if only someone would study the issue. I may be jumping ahead
of myself here, but as I understand it, the 'other' explanation for the
'validity' of astrology is via synchronicity, in that everything is related
by its similarity in time as much as traditional cause and effect. Thus the
planets and/or stars don't affect behavior anyway--they're just convenient
to use as a marker since they change all the time, we know where they were,
etc. However, I'm not sure I follow your connection of all this into
ufology. Perhaps you could elucidate--briefly :-)

--
Michael Schuyler - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Hicks)
Subject: Hyser Report
Date: 13 Nov 91 04:56:00 GMT


 > Thanks for your work and presentation of this to ParaNet.

  Sure, no problem. Didn't you or Don get a scanner and OCR software a while
back? I'm in the market and looking for advice. Could come in handy.

                                           jbh

--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Danny Brandenburg)
Subject: sphinx age
Date: 15 Nov 91 20:52:51 GMT

Here is a story I ran across...Perhap it will help.



          Sphinx May be 4000 Years Older Than Believed



SAN DIEGO (UPI) -- Signs of ancient rainstorms indicate Egypt's Great

Sphinx may be as much as 4,000 years older than currently believed -- a

discovery that could rewrite the history of civilization, a group of

scientists said Tuesday.

   The giant stone figure with the body of a lion and the head of a man

was believed to have been built around 2500 B.C., but an examination of

the rock showed signs of weathering that led researchers to believe the

Sphinx was built by a long-vanished civilization at least 2,500 to 4,000

years earlier.

   ``We don't know who might have made it,'' said John A. West, an

independent Egyptologist who was part of the study team. ``But proof

that a civilization capable of creating such a sculpture existed, even

as little as 2,500 years earlier than commonly believed, is to history

what the relativity theory was to Victorian physics.''

   The research group's report was presented this week at the Geological

Society of America at the group's annual meeting in San Diego.

   The team visited the Sphinx outside of Cairo in April and examined

the sandstone believed to have been carved during the reign of Pharaoh

Chephren, also known as Pharaoh Khafre, who died in 2494 B.C.

   The examination revealed cracks and weathering in the rock of the

type usually caused by long periods of rainfall.

   The same weathering was not found on other stone structures from the

age in the area, includiung the nearby Great Pyramids.

   Scientists believe such rains fell after the Ice Age ended, long

before Chepheren's reign.

   ``Since 10,000 B.C., the general trend has been toward ever-

increasing aridity, culminating in the present-day Sahara,'' said Robert

M. Schoch, a Boston University geology professor and a member of the

expedition.

   ``Pharaoh Chephren evidently repaired and refurbished the weathered

Sphinx around 2500 B.C., but he did not build it,'' Schoch said.

   If a civilization older than the ancient Egyptians built the Sphinx,

there could be other relics still to be discovered beneath the desert

sand, Schoch said.

   Seismograph studies of the ground around the statue indicated

channels cut into the sandstone bedrock. The findings might mean the

Sphinx was built on top of an ancient cliff that has since filled in

with sand.



________________________________________________--

Rather interesting....but I want to wait this one out.

                      Danny Brandenburg


--
Danny Brandenburg - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: UFO survey
Date: 16 Nov 91 05:00:01 GMT


 I happened to catch Bud Hopkins on the Jennie Long show (NBC) today
 at about 2:30 P.M. CST. Unfortunately, I only saw the first few minutes,
 but found the results of a studio survey quite interesting.

 The audience was asked:

 Do you believe in UFO's?

 The response was:

 Believers: 53%
 Non-believers: 47%

 This ratio is down dramatically from 10 years ago, and does basically
 agree with other recent polls.

 Is our credibility waning?

 -= Sheldon =-
--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: David Jacobs
Date: 16 Nov 91 05:01:02 GMT


For all of those wondering about the status of Dr. David M. Jacobs
as ParaNet (sm) abduction moderator, I post the following extracted
from a letter I just received:

"...As of now, I am not the ParaNet abduction moderator. The main
problem, as far as I can tell, is that getting a node for me in
Philadelphia has proved to be more difficult than had been thought.
The first one lasted for quite a while, but then something happened
to the fellow's hard disk who was running the node, and that was
that. Another node lasted a very short time, and I am not sure what
happened then, but I noticed that virtually nobody was using the
abduction bulletin board to talk with me. So, my guess is that it
died for lack of interest. Actually, I hope Michael Corbin can re-
establish a node because I thought it was fun while it lasted...

 ...Budd (Hopkins) and I would very much like to have a series of
training conferences around the country, but the pressure of work
(abduction and otherwise) have made that desire seem more and more
like only a dream. Perhaps after my book comes out in March we will
have some more time to put something like that into effect....."

(signed) David M. Jacobs

Come on people, let's get Dave back on line. It shouldn't be
THAT difficult. Perhaps he can be setup as a point?

Regards to all,

Sheldon

--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: ecn.purdue.edu!lush
Subject: (none)
Date: 16 Nov 91 22:34:28 GMT

From: [e-mail] (Gregory B Lush)


--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Deane Ward)
Subject: question?
Date: 28 Sep 91 17:07:07 GMT

Jim Speiser and Deane Ward were talking about
George Green and earthquake predictions.

?  The second prediction by Green, that the Mideast controversy
?  would erupt again began Thursday the day after he did hit
?  exactly the earthquake on the 17th. He did err in the
?  intensisy of the quake.  He thought it would be between 8 and 10
?  on the SCALE.  It was only 5.1.

If what Mr. Green said was in the same context of what I am
used to reading, it wasn't a prediction about the earthquake,
but a description of a plan by Elite to set off a quake
in California.  The goal is to cause general distraction and
confusion, but more specifically to force/allow takeover of the
banking system because the two central banking computers are
located in San Francisco and in Los Angeles, respectively.
The juxtaposition of Middle East eruptions with earthquakes is
that both offer distractions from 'goings-on' for Americans.

Anyway, the point I was trying to make was that I don't think
he meant it as a prediction.

This relates to a woman named Jeane Dixon who is a 'psychic/seer'
whom you may know from January tabloid articles with predictions
for the new year.  Mrs. Dixon describes what she does as
channelling the frequencies that carry an individual's thoughts.
Some of her 'predictions' then were "observations" of plans
that she 'saw.'  If the plans of the individual(s) changed,
her 'prediction' would be wrong.  Reading her books, written in
the 60's-70's, is fascinating in light of what I read from
George Green's books because they support each other, though
not explicitly.  (She talks about the Russians using military
blackmail against us--don't remember if she expicitly said it
would be nuclear.  She also said we would be allies with Russia.)

This is what makes any 'prediction' possibly faulty, and it is a bad
choice of word for what some of these people do.  The accuracy of
her prediction is dependent on a human with free will acting out
the plan she 'saw.'  The plans might change significantly, especially
after she makes her 'observation' public.

It sounds like I am giving psychics an 'out,' and may be I am.
I just want people to consider this aspect when they discuss
'testing' psychics to try to (dis)prove their abilities.

Also, regarding earthquake predictions, there is a fellow in the
San Francisco Bay Area who is predicting earthquakes based on
monitoring extremely low frequency (ELF) waves in the area.
He was on the local news a couple times, which I heard over the
phone when I was talking to a friend in the area.  They lined
up the usual geologists who say there is no scientific base for
his...and on and on.  Then they mentioned that he has been correct
23 of 25 times.

ELF is one of the ways that the Phoenix Journals say earthquakes
can be triggered.  This fellow *ALSO* nailed the Sept. 17
(mentioned above) earthquake and he even got the magnitude correct!
(He said 4-6, I believe.)

Finally, Iben Browning, who was made (in)famous last year with
his 50/50 'prediction' of a New Madrid earthquake, isn't done.
First, last year he did not predict an earthquake, he only said
that by his calculations of tidal forces, December 1-5 was a
time when earthquakes are more likely to occur because of
gravitational forces pulling on the earth.  (If one looked into
the sky during that time, for instance, you would have seen a
full moon with Mars right next to it--the two therefore pulling
in the same direction opposite to the gravitational pull of the
sun.)  There were several small earthquakes (Richter=3 to 5)
in the world that week, but there always are.  However, we did
have some record high tides in the Pacific, so his calculations
are correct.  The only issue is whether it relates to earthquakes.
(Incidentally, Iben Browning recently died of a heart attack.)

Browning added that if nothing happens around December 3, 1990,
watch out for Jan 18, 1992.  The tidal forces will be stronger
then than they have been in thousands of years.  Just thought
I'd share that, something more to watch out for.

Greg ([e-mail])





--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Deane Ward)
Subject: interview
Date: 16 Nov 91 02:04:59 GMT

Hi jim,
The other night Wednesday or Thursday, at 1 A.M. on KTAR, I heard an Interview
with your friend Mr? Stackpole.  To say the least he changes his personality to
whatever he feels he can get away with and I was offended by his attitude
problem.  He had a good time laughing and debunking in a formidable manner
anyone who chose to think that there was one shred of evidence that there
could be a UFO anyplace, anywhere, and anytime.  I guess when you were there to
temper his remarks he was not as secure as he gave the impression of what can
or does happen in ALL circumstances.  He is no Skeptic but a clear
unadulterated DEBUNKER.  I felt sorry for the few people who attempted to call
in and engage him in conversation.  No wonder people don't report sightings.

It was like listening to two different people and this one was not pleasant.
When you were there to temper his disertation, he gave the impression of a
serious person who would be at least courteous.  I considered him a joke and
although there are many stories to doubt, not all people who have seen things
can be placed in the position of being congenital idiots.

If I had the oportunity to speak with the man I certainly would like to ask him
about his admiration of Klass which he expressed quite forcefully in the
interview.  I tried to get through but was unable to as I waited to long to
control my anger.  Now I am almost bitter toward him.  He certainly was nobody
I would confide in and in fact the time I would give him would be slightly off.

Sorry to unload like this and I too can be skeptical but crudely and rudely as
he was is beneath me.  I need some calming potient as you can see.

Tell Mary HELLO and hope to see you soon

All the best,
Deane Ward

--
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********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to********
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******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************
                Info-ParaNet Newsletters   Volume I  Number 502

                         Wednesday, November 20th 1991

Today's Topics:

                        Re: The Latest on UK Crop Circles
                                   The Sphinx
                                   sphinx age
                            Weird Night On Halloween
                          Re: Weird Night On Halloween
                                    Implants
                                  End Of Ogden?
                               OMNI - your opinion
                             Re: The End of Freedom
                                Re: Crop Circles
                                  Hyser report
                                  Hyser Report
                                  David Jacobs
                           Mystery Object - cross post
                               The Sphinx Again...
                                   UFO survey
                                  David Jacobs
                            Weird Night On Halloween
                            Weird Night On Halloween
                                    interview
                                  Crop Circles

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: The Latest on UK Crop Circles
Date: 16 Nov 91 03:23:48 GMT

Hi Robert,

What depressing news about that conference you went to.  There's some hope,
however, as Australia enters its planting/harvesting season that some crop
circle will appear there, and be magnificient.

(Did you get the material I sent you?)

Best,

Linda Bird

--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: The Sphinx
Date: 16 Nov 91 03:35:44 GMT

Hi David,

Thanks for the latest on the Sphinx.  This info is all new to me, too.  I DO
know that the author and historian Zecharia Sitchin has plenty to say about the
pyramids.  He thinks the Great Pyramid was built a few hundred thousand years
ago and used as a type of beacon for Ancient Astronauts (see his book, "The
Wars of Gods and Men" for details).

I'd like to see MUFON or CUFOS get Sitchin's opinion on the Sphinx.  I can't
remember right now if he discussed it or not.

Regards,

Linda

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Clark Matthews)
Subject: sphinx age
Date: 16 Nov 91 14:02:00 GMT

In a message to Wam.Umd.Edu!Infinity <15 Nov 91 13:52> Danny Brandenburg wrote:

 DB>   The team visited the Sphinx outside of Cairo in April and examined
 DB> the sandstone believed to have been carved during the reign of Pharaoh
 DB> Chephren, also known as Pharaoh Khafre, who died in 2494 B.C.
 DB>   The examination revealed cracks and weathering in the rock of the
 DB> type usually caused by long periods of rainfall.
 DB>   The same weathering was not found on other stone structures from the
 DB> age in the area, includiung the nearby Great Pyramids.

Hi Danny -- the jury's out on this and I don't know anything about the report
these people presented, but the Sphinx is sandstone, whereas the pyramids were
sheathed in marble throughout the classical age.  The marble was scavenged by
local builders over the centuries following the Ptolemaic collapse.

My point here is that it would be VERY difficult for the Sphinx panel to make a
meaningful comparison between the erosion present on the Sphinx vs. the nearby
landmarks.  The surface materials of the pyramids are long gone.

 DB>   ``Pharaoh Chephren evidently repaired and refurbished the weathered
 DB> Sphinx around 2500 B.C., but he did not build it,'' Schoch said.

The Pharohs had a long history of doing this -- and of taking credit for
building their predecessor's monuments -- no doubt about it.

 DB>   If a civilization older than the ancient Egyptians built the Sphinx,
 DB> there could be other relics still to be discovered beneath the desert
 DB> sand, Schoch said.
 DB>   Seismograph studies of the ground around the statue indicated
 DB> channels cut into the sandstone bedrock. The findings might mean the
 DB> Sphinx was built on top of an ancient cliff that has since filled in
 DB> with sand.

The subterranean channels/chambers/tunnels have been known for some time and
suspected for centuries.  You know what strikes me as being really interesting
about this??  I keep thinking about what Edgar Cayce prophesied about the
Sphinx:  That incontrovertable evidence of ATLANTIS is preserved in
undiscovered chambers below and in front of the Sphinx.

Of course, Cayce also said that when the evidence is uncovered -- the world
will soon suffer a major cataclysm.

Best,
  Clark




--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Weird Night On Halloween
Date: 17 Nov 91 17:52:00 GMT

> >   and then cited the crop circles as a possible proof
> > while noting the animal mutilations as a factual proof of alien
> > visitors.

>  Unfortunately neither of these things constitutes proof of
>alien visitations. The only proof they provide is of strange
>crop formations and strange animal mutilations. Both mysteries
>are still whodunits.


Quite right, John.  That's what I meant but I didn't express it very
well.  The problem is that these people have already accepted these
things as sufficient proof to satisfy themselves and assume that
makes these things sufficient proof for everyone else too.  Belief
doesn't make fact, though.  That acceptance of "fact" (which others
would merely call interesting but unexplained phenomena) cast doubt
on the credibility of all the rest of their contentions.
Sorry I didn't explain myself better the first time.

BTW, I'm collecting opinions and would value yours very highly:
Topic -- OMNI magazine. What do you like best/least about it?  What
would you change if you could influence the editors?  Would you
increase the coverage of UFO-Paranormal events/reports or reduce it?
 Should those stories have more of an investigative (as opposed to
straight story-telling or reporting) tone?  Or would you decrease
coverage there?  Is there something the magazine does that you'd
prefer they didn't do?  Something they should do that they're not
now doing?  And what do you wish the editors knew -- what would you
tell them if you could?
Second topic -- OMNI ONLINE:  What do you think of the idea of OMNI
going online?  There's been some talk about them joining some of the
CIS/GENIE type services or other BBS so interested people could talk
to the editors and writers directly, get answers, etc.  Good idea?
Any suggestions?
[Note -- anyone else who would like to comment on these questions,
feel free to jump in too.]
Thanks for thinking about it.  I'll look forward to
your reply.                        ==Peggy==
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Re: Weird Night On Halloween
Date: 17 Nov 91 17:59:00 GMT

>Still have not seen the whole show yet. I did have a devil of a
>time all weekend (in costume) so the tape sits in the VCR
>waiting for me to sit still for an hour.
>
>I got the GIFs of the Ogden object, but the printer or program
>here makes hash out of them. So I still know nothing. (as
>usual?)
>
>The Orcadian is the weekly newspaper of Orkney. Nothing special
>in three issues so far. Big news about a roundabout that was
>the first on the mainland, and that they had three accidents
>the first week. The ban on shellfish has been removed,
>Paralytic Shellfish Poisoning. First annual Science Festival...
>Nothing about archaeology or paranormal yet.

I know what you mean about the GIFs -- I haven't been able to see
them either, as I don't have graphics (only Hercules which evidently
is not enough) but I hadn't tried printing it...probably wouldn't
work, judging by your experience.  They're copies of Linda Bird's
drawings and Linda was kind enough to send me photocopies of same
(Thank you again, Linda -- you're the only one who came through!) so
I would happily relay copies to you if you like.  Send me a netmail
or whatever of your mailing address and I'll mail you copies.
Meantime we can both save up for advanced graphics capability!

Thanks for the info about the Orkadian (sp?)  -- Interesting stuff.

BTW, I'm collecting opinions about OMNI magazine -- if you want to
add yours, I'd appreciate it.  General stuff:  what do you
like/dislike, what would you tell the editors if you could speak
directly to them, is there enough or too much UFO-Paranormal
coverage, should there be more coverage of archaeology, etc., and
what about an OMNI ONLINE service -- would you use it? like it?
Thanks.
                                ==Peggy==
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Implants
Date: 17 Nov 91 18:04:00 GMT

>Hello Peggy...


> > >Peggy, in a message on 12th Oct you mentioned a radio
> > show>which included a man who talked about a personal
> > abduction and
> > >implant.
> > >Do you by chance have any further details on him?



> >         name:  Richard Price
> >         He says he was implanted by aliens and that
>This case sounds very interesting.

>If at all possible, I would like to obtain a copy of your audio
>tape. I would send you the postage and cost prior to you
>sending it to me,

>Can you provide any more insight as to the physical and
>structural characteristics?

Hello Keith,
        I'm sorry to say that I still have not been able to make
time to listen to the entire interview yet -- things here have been
very, very busy -- but I would be happy to send a copy of the tape
to you.  I can also ask the radio host who interviewed him if he
would be able to provide a contact telephone number or address if
you would find that helpful.  Please let me know your mailing
address and I'll send a copy as soon as possible.  About the
expenses, it would cause time-gobbling delay to wait for mails back
and forth so I will trust you to merely reimburse when you recieve,
okay?  I'll look forward to the message with the mailing address.
                                ==Peggy==
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: End Of Ogden?
Date: 17 Nov 91 18:10:00 GMT

Hi Sheldon,
        I, too, was sorry to see that I couldn't get any further
with the Ogden story.  Thank you very much for your kind comments --
that helps!
        Of course, it's still remotely (very remotely) possible that
the people could change their minds and eventually decide to talk,
but it's also remotely possible that the rest of the unsolved
mysteries will be solved too... (g)  I won't hold my breath, anyway.
        Many people are wondering about the too-many-for-mere-chance
stories like this one...does give one reason to ponder.  MICAP,
I hope, will address some of these questions -- the source of the
strange story phenomenon -- when they're more fully underway.
        Thanks very much for the suggestion about the mutilation
story.  As soon as I wrap what I'm working on now, I'll contact Jim
about that.  Couldn't look into to it before because the other
stories too priority, but this may turn out to be very good stuff --
especially if people will actually agree to be interviewed for a
change!
        Thanks, again!
                                        ==Peggy==
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: OMNI - your opinion
Date: 17 Nov 91 18:16:00 GMT

Sheldon,
        As you may have seen in my message to John Hicks (#2030),
I'm collecting opinions about OMNI and since you made such
interesting comments about Sherry Baker's "Moon Babies" story
recently, I would appreciate hearing from you too on this topic.
I'll relay the general comments and some specific ones to the
editors -- unless you specify I should not do so -- so you'll have a
chance to influence the magazine as much as any of us ordinary folk
can.
        Basic idea:  what do you like/dislike about the magazine;
what should they do less of/more of; should there be more/less/same
amount of UFO-Paranormal coverage; should that coverage take a more
investigative tone or remain in the storytelling reporting style; is
there anything the magazine isn't doing that it should do or is
doing that it shouldn't, and so on.  One question comes to mind
specifically in response to your "Moon Babies" comments -- do you
think there should be a Skeptics Page or feature -- that is, a place
where someone can rebut a story as you did the Moon Babies piece?
(I would visualize it as a column or 1/2 page where the original
item would be reprinted with the skeptic's rebuttal and a different
skeptic or reader-skeptic would be used each time, depending on who
wrote in with what evidence, etc.)  Second question:  If they go to
an OMNI ONLINE feature, would you participate in it?  What would be
the do's and don't's for that?
        Thanks for thinking about this.
                                                ==Peggy==
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Kay Mclaughlin)
Subject: Re: The End of Freedom
Date: 11 Nov 91 02:51:00 GMT


 CM> Okay, okay, call me a bad-tempered bastard who refuses to
 CM> acknowledge the humanity of the people who tap my phones, snoop
 CM> on these message echos (as human BBS callers and thru anonymous UNIX
 CM> FTPs) and who may someday come knocking on my door at 5 a.m.

 REALLY??
 Has this been occuring? Care to elaborate?

 CM> I mean, the Nazis liquidated 6 million Jews and 9 million
 CM> "politicals" and POWs by using notecards in shoeboxes.  Just
 CM> think what they could do with the INSLAW software package
 CM> (in one form or another)?

 I think I missed somthing, what is the INSLAW?

 CM> Since you're in the D.C. area you've obviously heard all about the
 CM> Maryland "Big Foot" flap.  I defer to your expertise on that one.

 I live in the DC area, and I haven'r heard about the Maryland BIg Foot
 flap, Clark, Steve have any files on this?

 Regards,
 Kay

--
Kay Mclaughlin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Powell)
Subject: Re: Crop Circles
Date: 16 Nov 91 06:12:00 GMT


 -=> Quoting Jim Speiser to John Powell <=-

 JS> In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <30 Oct 91 22:58> John Powell wrote:
 JS> Well, the shameless media-presented (and sponsored by who knows...) ploy to
 JP> discredit the totality of the phenomenon with this single pathetic prank,
 JP> (which essentially amounted to just a personal attack on Delgado), might
 JP> have worked well in the past but things/people change.

 JS> Just one question that needs to be asked. What was it about the Geezer
 JS> circle that caused Delgado to go out on such a limb?
 JS> OK, another question: Would any other Cereologist have been fooled?

There's no way for me to realistically answer that question.  What caused these
people to, (how did they get in the corner?), think that they were in _any_
way capable of determining a 'true' CC from a 'fake' CC?

Hindsight, which is almost always 20/20, tells us that they used subtle
configuration details, such as stalk weaving or criss-cross plant folding, in
their analysis.  They used "ley lines" and dowsing - whatever _they_ are...

In the case of the former that is an acceptable method of categorization of the
characteristics of the alleged phenomenon.  It proves nothing.

In the case of the later, dowsing and such, it is simply unacceptable on all
counts and for all purposes.

How did they get in that corner?  I don't know.  But I _do_ know that it is a
_personal_ question, having nothing to do with the scientific pursuit of
knowledge, and history will remind them of this question as time progresses.

Fortunately, there are now beginning to be solidly verifiable lab-based sample
analysis methods, (our version of Spock's Tricorder...), that will put the
past in the past - which is exactly where it belongs.

Andrews, perhaps Delgado, will likely be one of many on-site teams whose role
is to specifically to collect the immediate forensic data, catalog the
observations, and then pass the baton...

Assuming, of course, that this phenomenon decides to continue vandalizing the
otherwise regal fields with it's otherwise blockhead version of art...

 JS> I'm not implying anything, I'm asking an honest question,
 JS> which I guess is this: what constitutes a "true" crop circle, and how
 JS> are WE supposed to tell the difference, if one of the world's leading
 JS> cereologists cannot?

Let me be the one to make things even _more_ difficult to swallow... <grin>

The plain fact of the matter is that we have no choice but to _DISREGARD_ all
previous crop circle data...  We have no choice but to go into next year with
our best lab-based testing resources, verify for an independently corroborated
fact that these lab-based testing resources _can_ distinguish truth from
fiction to a _reasonably_ acceptable degree, and start from there...

Now let me insult you with a prediction:  The Crop Circle phenomenon of 1992
will be _drastically_ reduced, it will be _less_ than 1/4 the total event
number of 1991.  Somewhere between 50% and 80% of those 1992 events will be
conclusively shown to _not_ match known lab-based analysis criteria.  The
remainder will endure in an inconclusive wasteland of dwindling speculation
as the myth establishes permanent roots...

You heard it here first... <grin>

Thanks.

John.

 ... Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence.
--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Hicks)
Subject: Hyser report
Date: 17 Nov 91 06:40:00 GMT


 > I can explain it with Ed pretty easily in my own mind. I still ahve a
 > hard time with Meier, the one armed expert photographer,

  Maybe the "suspect" didn't actually do the hoaxing. Maybe the suspect is
simply a conduit, or front man, and can truthfully say he knows nothing about
faking photos.

 > immediately sets out to hoax the same pictures

  But we could just as easily someday demonstrate how to hoax a real TRUFO
photo. And if we did out-hoax a potential hoaxer, we still haven't proved his
photos to be fake, just that it can be done.

                                           jbh

--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Hyser Report
Date: 18 Nov 91 07:56:00 GMT


 >   Sure, no problem. Didn't you or Don get a scanner and OCR software a
 > while back? I'm in the market and looking for advice. Could come in
 > handy.

Give me a voice call sometime.  I am glad to help.

Mike

--
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UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: David Jacobs
Date: 18 Nov 91 13:23:00 GMT


 > Come on people, let's get Dave back on line. It shouldn't be
 > THAT difficult. Perhaps he can be setup as a point?

Thank you for posting that update, Sheldon.  As a matter of fact, we are
testing a new link in the Philadelphia area even as we speak.  It should be
functional in very short order.

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: ASTRO.dnet.ge.com!CARR
Subject: Mystery Object - cross post
Date: 18 Nov 91 18:33:41 GMT

From: Paul Carr <[e-mail]>

#: 93980 S14/News/Current Events
    13-Nov-91  18:24:55
Sb: #Mystery Object!
Fm: SKY & TELESCOPE 70007,2762
To: All

Okay, WHAT IS OUT THERE??!!  The two latest IAU Circulars describe a most
unusual 20th-magnitude object in Cetus, which has been under scrutiny by the
Spacewatch telescope in Arizona since November 6th. Orbital solutions by Brian
G. Marsden indicate it has an orbit remarkably similar to that of the Earth --
as if it is 'dogging' our planet!  In the low-key language of the IAU
Circulars, the suggestion is made that it 'might be a returning spacecraft.'

Dr. Marsden has told S&T that if it is the hulk of some interplanetary probe,
it might have been launched either 16 or 32 years ago.  On that assumption,
maybe it's time to start looking at what probes were being launched by the U.
S. and U. S. S. R. in 1959 and 1975.

The object is heading slowly toward a rendezvous with Earth on December 5th,
when it will be 0.0031 astronomical unit away (the Moon's distance is 0.0026
a.u.).

In case anyone wants to explore the past motion of this object, the elements
given by Marsden on IAU Circular 5387 are as follows:

         Epoch = 1991 Oct. 31.0 ET
   T = 1992 Jan. 14.1186 ET         Arg. peri. = 260.8887
   e = 0.065262                     Long. node = 212.9200  (1950.0)
   q = 0.971470 a.u.                Inclination = 0.3913
   a = 1.039297                     Period 1.060 years

The approach to Earth will change these elements considerably. For example, by
early January the argument of perihelion becomes 26 degrees, and the longitude
of the ascending node 79 degrees!

   -- Roger


#: 94006 S14/News/Current Events
    14-Nov-91  09:01:54
Sb: #93980-Mystery Object!
Fm: Frank Hentschel 75126,72
To: SKY & TELESCOPE 70007,2762 (X)

  A quick look through my database shows the following in that time frame:

    Name         Catnr Intdes     Source Launch    Decay/Status
    ============ ===== ========== ====== ========= =========
    PIONEER  5      27 ALPHA 1      US   11 MAR 60 SOLAR ORB
    VENERA  1       80 GAMMA 1     USSR  12 FEB 61 SOLAR ORB
    LUNA  1        112 MU 1        USSR  02 JAN 59 SOLAR ORB
    PIONEER  4     113 NU 1         US   03 MAR 59 SOLAR ORB

    HELIOS 1      7567 1974 097A   FRG   10 DEC 74 SOLAR ORB
    HELIOS 2      8582 1976 003A   FRG   15 JAN 76 SOLAR ORB

     cheers -fjh




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: usl.edu!pgf9240
Subject: The Sphinx Again...
Date: 19 Nov 91 02:33:39 GMT

From: [e-mail] (Fraering Philip G)


Just thought I'd comment: if the Sphinx and the Pyramids are older
than we think, this explains the old theory, 'if they were built using
ropes and wood, where did it come from? 4000 years ago the Nile valley
was a desert...' by means of the fact that when they were built, the region
perhaps wasn't a desert but fertile.

Phil




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: UFO survey
Date: 16 Nov 91 00:57:13 GMT

In a message to All <15 Nov 91 22:00> Sheldon Wernikoff wrote:

 SW> I happened to catch Bud Hopkins on the Jennie Long show (NBC) today
 SW> at about 2:30 P.M. CST. Unfortunately, I only saw the first few minutes,
 SW> but found the results of a studio survey quite interesting.

 SW> The audience was asked:

 SW> Do you believe in UFO's?

 SW> The response was:

 SW> Believers: 53%
 SW> Non-believers: 47%

 SW> This ratio is down dramatically from 10 years ago, and does basically
 SW> agree with other recent polls.

 SW> Is our credibility waning?

That's actually better than a recent TIME Magazine poll, which I believe
showed non-believers in the majority.

Yes, I'd say our credibility is waning, but not substantially, which is
surprising considering the miasmic mire we've been bogged down in lately.

Jim

--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: David Jacobs
Date: 16 Nov 91 00:59:05 GMT

In a message to All <15 Nov 91 22:01> Sheldon Wernikoff wrote:

 SW> Come on people, let's get Dave back on line. It shouldn't be
 SW> THAT difficult. Perhaps he can be setup as a point?

I agree, but is anyone willing to poll him Long Distance? He told me that the
UFO interest in the Philly area is virtually non-existent, and I guess that is
echoed in the ParaNet interest.

Jim



--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Hicks)
Subject: Weird Night On Halloween
Date: 19 Nov 91 17:30:00 GMT


 PN> BTW, I'm collecting opinions and would value yours very
 PN> highly: Topic -- OMNI magazine.

  Unfortunately I don't read it enough to have a valid opinion. Not enough
hours in the day.
  Anyway, I usually look through it for ufo stuff, of which I don't see
enough. Just a simply "news flash" column about what's happening would be
good.

 PN> Second topic -- OMNI ONLINE:  What do you think of the idea
 PN> of OMNI going online?

  Good idea.....but not on a pay service. Go with Fidonet; the
communications and goodwill would probably pay off. Plus, Fido would be
"neutral territory."

                                                jbh

--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Weird Night On Halloween
Date: 19 Nov 91 01:51:57 GMT

In a message to Pete Porro <17 Nov 91 10:59> Peggy Noonan wrote:

 PN>
 PN> BTW, I'm collecting opinions about OMNI magazine -- if you want
 PN> to add yours, I'd appreciate it.  General stuff:  what do you
 PN> like/dislike, what would you tell the editors if you could speak
 PN> directly to them, is there enough or too much UFO-Paranormal
 PN> coverage, should there be more coverage of archaeology, etc., and
 PN> what about an OMNI ONLINE service -- would you use it? like it? Thanks.
 PN>                                ==Peggy==

May I add my two cents? I think OMNI has just the right amount of coverage of
UFO/Paranormal for a magazine of its type, but I would like to see it analyze
the paranormal more critically. Right now all it seems to do is report claims,
and once in a while throw in an obligatory quote from a skeptic. I think that
when something seems to be real, you should say so, and when it seems to be
fraudulent, you should say so as well.

As far as an online service, good luck. They tried that on CompuServe for a
while, without much success.

Jim

--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: interview
Date: 20 Nov 91 07:23:41 GMT

In a message to Jim Speiser <15 Nov 91 19:04> Deane Ward wrote:

 DW> Sorry to unload like this and I too can be skeptical but crudely
 DW> and rudely as he was is beneath me.  I need some calming potient
 DW> as you can see.

 DW> Tell Mary HELLO and hope to see you soon

Hi Deane!

thanks for your note about Mike. That sure is an eye-opener. I know he's still
very skeptical, but I thought I had at least convinced him that Klass is no
White Knight. He's agreed with me in public, in fact. I'll be talking to him on
the new GEnie paranormal roundtable, where I'm one of his assistants. You
didn't get a tape, by any chance, did you?

Jim


--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Crop Circles
Date: 20 Nov 91 07:25:51 GMT

In a message to Jim Speiser <15 Nov 91 23:12> John Powell wrote:

 JP> You heard it here first... <grin>

I knew there was SOME reason I tuned in here! <grin> Thanks for the thoughtful
reply, and I agree, we'll just have to <cringe><gritting teeth> WAIT AND SEE....


Jim


--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: [e-mail]



********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to********
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******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************

                Info-ParaNet Newsletters   Volume I  Number 503

                          Saturday, November 23rd 1991

Today's Topics:

                            Weird Night On Halloween
                            Omni Opinions & Comments
                                     Author
                                     Photos
                               The End of Freedom
                                   Gulf Breeze
                                    SETI BBS
                                     Author
                                     Author
                                  David Jacobs
                          Re: Weird Night On Halloween
                                Re: David Jacobs
                                ParaNet 9600 bps
                                ParaNet 9600 bps
                                 Sphinx, scalars
                                  Omni Comments
                          America's New Secret Aircraft
                           Re: Crop circle researcher
                                  "mars Effect"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Weird Night On Halloween
Date: 20 Nov 91 20:10:01 GMT

Hi John,
        Thanks for your comment on OMNI and OMNI ONLINE.  I'll pass
them along.  That's a good idea you had about a UFO news update,
too.  I hadn't thought of that but it'd be relatively easy to
prepare and all the UFO-interested readers would find it a handy way
of keeping track of what's going on and where.  Good thinking!
        I also like your idea of putting it on FidoNet instead of a
pay service.  Maybe if we get enough comments like yours they'll
listen (hope hope!).  Could be they just didn't think of it -- so
many people don't even know about the Nets...hasn't been that long
ago that you educated me on the subject!  (BTW, thanks again -- it's
been great to have this access and without your patient
explanations, I'd still be lost.)
                                        ==Peggy==
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Omni Opinions & Comments
Date: 20 Nov 91 20:21:02 GMT

>May I add my two cents? I think OMNI has just the right amount
>of coverage of UFO/Paranormal for a magazine of its type, but I
>would like to see it analyze the paranormal more critically.
>Right now all it seems to do is report claims, and once in a
>while throw in an obligatory quote from a skeptic. I think that
>when something seems to be real, you should say so, and when it
>seems to be fraudulent, you should say so as well.

>As far as an online service, good luck. They tried that on
>CompuServe for a while, without much success.


Thanks very, very much for adding your two cents -- the good
thinking behind your comments is worth a whole lot more than that!
I like the idea about the critical analysis of paranormal claims,
maybe if not on Every story, then at least one per issue.  The
comment on real/fraudulent would indeed be helpful to readers
(though I can see where some sources might dry up if they feared
that kind of judgment) ... maybe they could do it like a movie
rating column -- so many stars (or moons or UFOs or whatever) for
the most plausible and fewer as credibility drops.  It's an idea
that bears consideration.  I'll pass it along.
        You mentioned they'd tried the ONLINE thing on Compuserve
and that rang a bell.  I recall now that they did have some ads in
the magazine about that but it was before I was on CIS myself, so I
didn't see it.  If you did see it, I'd be very interested to hear
from you about how it worked (obviously not too successfully but
talking of the mechanics here) -- was it a question/answer thing or
talk to the writers or just reprinting the magazine online?  What do
you think made it fail?  And, in case you saw John Hicks' reply
which suggested doing this online thing on FidoNet so it's a nonpay
service, do you think that would get around the problems it had on
CIS?  Would you read or use the online thing if it were on FidoNet?
Or do you think you'd get anything out of it?
        Hmmmm....I wonder if they could add a feature in which
people could report events as they do here, but then the magazine
would assign people to check out the stories (assuming there's
enough info to go on to start investigating, that is) and then
present follow-up reports later telling you what happened -- did it
check out or not and what was the bottom line.  (Or maybe they
already did that when they were on CIS?)
        This idea seems like it could have great potential, but, of
course, there could be a giant minefield of problems that elude my
observation because I just don't know enough to see what they'd be.
        Looking forward to your thoughts...
                                ==Peggy==
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Author
Date: 21 Nov 91 03:36:00 GMT

Hi everyone,

What can you tell me about an author named Keith Thompson?  I saw a
book of his called Angels and Aliens."  I can't recall who he is and he
is not an author that all of us have mentioned before (to my
knowledge).  Is he reliable?  reputable?  a crackpot?

I'd like to know before I lay my money down.

Thanks everyone!

Linda

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Photos
Date: 21 Nov 91 03:38:00 GMT

Hi Chris,

Got your great message, and congrats on passing the orals!  I'll be
finished with classes tomorrow night until Dec. 3.  I have some photos
to send you, so be looking for a "snail" in about a week.

Best always,

Linda

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Clark Matthews)
Subject: The End of Freedom
Date: 19 Nov 91 15:34:00 GMT

In a message to Clark Matthews <10 Nov 91 19:51> Kay Mclaughlin wrote:

 KM> REALLY??
 KM> Has this been occuring? Care to elaborate?

Hi, Kay!  Well, I'm not the ParaNet security director, but without elaborating,
yes, it has been happening.  It doesn't seem to bother Steve Rose though, so
OBVIOUSLY there's nothing to worry about.

 KM> I live in the DC area, and I haven'r heard about the Maryland BIg Foot
 KM> flap, Clark, Steve have any files on this?

Not yet -- and I don't necessarily endorse the claims.  But Bigfeet (Bigfoots?)
have supposedly been sighted in Maryland, Delaware and (I think) Pennsylvania
over the last year or so.  I hear about people mounting Bigfoot Expeditions,
etc., in Maryland.

 KM> I think I missed somthing, what is the INSLAW?

Well, INSLAW is off-topic for the UFO echo, but I've posted a series of 9
articles to the ParaNet General Topics echo on the INSLAW scandal.  It's not a
UFO case -- although a couple of NSA/NSC/CIA people implicated in the INSLAW
case have said some "funny" things about UFOs, oddly enough [Example:  CIA
retiree on dead reporter -- 'Even if he got names, dates, and places, all he's
got is a UFO book.']

But INSLAW gives a frightening insight into secret goverment operations. It's
very revealing and I think it may prove helpful in understanding the mechanics
(and maybe some of the personalities and motives) behind the UFO coverup.
 There's a file on my BBS called INSLAW1.ZIP which contains all the stuff I
posted to ParaNet General Topics.  I'll be adding more material to my BBS
shortly.  Check the Conspiracy section.

Briefly, INSLAW, Inc., a small, D.C.-based software development firm,
approached the Justice Department with its PROMIS case-tracking software
package in the early 1980s.  "Justice" was impressed -- especially Edwin Meese,
the US Attorney General.  A demonstration system was installed at the Justice
Department -- and Meese gave several business associates copies of the
complete INSLAW package.

Meese then refused to license the software from INSLAW, halted the $3 million
payment for the demo system, sabotaged other marketing opportunities for the
company, and the "Justice" Dept. forced INSLAW into involuntary bankruptcy.

Meanwhile, a Meese associate with contacts in the CIA, NSA, and foreign
secret-police agencies was decompiling the INSLAW software and PIRATING it.
The stolen PROMIS software was sold to foreign governments and US Secret
Security Agencies, including the FBI, CIA, NSA, and operatives of the National
Security Council (NSC).  The stolen software was disassembled and modified at
the Wackenhut Corporation of Coral Gables, Florida, to support the computerized
tracking of private individuals, police forces, and troop movements.  A "back
door" was also installed in the program to allow US agencies to dial into
INSLAW sytems licensed to foreign entities and dump the secret data in the
foreign systems into US computers.   Subsequently the pirated software sold by
Meese associates to:  Mossad (Israel), KCIA (S. Korea), Hazamat (Iraqi secret
police), Libyan secret police, the RCMP and something called the CIS (Canadian
Internal Security -- my family's Canadian & no-one we know has ever *heard* of
CIS) and many others.

Then a problem developed for Meese and the CIA/NSA/NSC pirates.  One of the
principals of INSLAW discovered, by accident, of the sale of the stolen
software to the RCMP and, later, the mysterious Canadian CIS.  Immediately
thereafter, a U.S. bankruptcy court judge upheld INSLAW's claim of software
piracy and refused to bankrupt and dismantle the INSLAW corporaton as Meese
wanted.  This judge was not reappointed Ronald Reagan.  The case was retried
and the judge's replacement bankrupted INSLAW involuntarily.  BTW, key
elements of the scandal originally surfaced as part of an investigation of
corruption in the federal bankruptcy system in California.

A number of people familiar with the role of Wackenhut Corporation, Meese
associates, and CIA/NSA/NSC in the INSLAW matter were murdered execution-style
in California.  The software developer who served as project leader for
Wackenhut's piracy and modification of PROMIS revealed his role to several
congressional investigators -- he was threatened by senior Justice Dept
officials and arrested on drug trafficking charges 8 days after talking with
investigators.

Then another problem surfaced for our trusted Civil Servants and their business
associates:  A reporter found all this out and told friends he could place it
in the context of a CIA/NSA/NSC/Mafia "underground governent" that operates
parallel to the US gov't and involves Meese associates, organized crime, and
many CIA/NSA/NSC alumni.  The reporter died mysteriously in a West Virginia
motel.  Much of his documentary material and notes vanished from his room,
along with a briefcase and some other items.  Earlier, he had warned his family
not to believe he'd commit suicide.  The local coroner embalmed the body after
receiving "instructions from the family" -- but the family gave no such
instructions.  Cause of death was determined to be slashed wrists, but
circumstances point to something that might have been detectable in blood.
 Ricin?  CIA shellfish toxin?  Blowfish toxin?  Difficult to determine now.

Among other things, the reporter had told friends that the California murders
were committed by a number of former Special Forces personnel now employed in
the Chicago Fire Department.  He said they continue to serve as contract hitmen
for the "parallel government" of businessmen, organized crime, and associates
of NSA, CIA, National Security Council, the Dept. of Justice, Wackenhut, et al.

Sorry for the long post.  If you want to talk about INSLAW, please send the
messages in ParaNet General Topics -- gotta uphold the Sysop ideal of Topic
Cop, here, right?  :-)

Best,
  Clark

--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: doc.imperial.ac.uk!aixssc.ibm.co.uk!rob
Subject: Gulf Breeze
Date: 22 Nov 91 04:36:13 GMT

From: Robert Trevelyan <[e-mail]>

Thanks to Don Allen who sent some really good posts on the Gulf Breeze
sightings to the Alt.alien.vistors echo. There is a lot of detail in
this which makes interesting reading. Does anyone have any of the Ed Walters
photos on a gif file that I could view to complete the picture.
Thanks, Robert

--
Robert Trevelyan   UKnet: [e-mail]
AIX Communications    VNET: TREVELR at NHBVM7
     Voice: [phone]




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com!vanth!jms
Subject: SETI BBS
Date: 22 Nov 91 06:33:29 GMT

From: vanth![e-mail] (Jim Shaffer)

+From: 'MX%\'carr@kirk\''@ASTRO.dnet.ge.com
+
+There's a new 9600 Baud BBS at [phone], which intends to focus
+primarily on SETI.  Though not set up yet, they plan to have a UFO
+conference as well.  They are looking for amateur astronomers who want to
+participate in optical SETI.

Does anyone know exactly what 'optical SETI' involves?  It would seem to me
that optical means would be the least likely means of contact. Or does it
just mean the search for extrasolar planets?

--
 *  From the disk of: | [e-mail]         | I'm in a groove now
 Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms        | -- or is it a rut?
 37 Brook Street      | [e-mail] |
 Montgomery, PA 17752 | [e-mail]      | (Rush, 'Face Up')




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Author
Date: 21 Nov 91 18:11:00 GMT


 > Hi everyone,

 > What can you tell me about an author named Keith Thompson?  I saw a book
 > of his called Angels and Aliens."  I can't recall who he is and he is
 > not an author that all of us have mentioned before (to my knowledge).
 > Is he reliable?  reputable?  a crackpot?
 >
 > I'd like to know before I lay my money down.

Linda:

Keith is a very nice guy, who just happens to have a more spiritual angle on
things. I wouldn't call him a crackpot, but he is from San Francisco, and is
very much a "Californian".

I believe Don Ecker will have more to say on Keith and his book shortly.

Jim

--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Burke)
Subject: Author
Date: 22 Nov 91 07:40:00 GMT

Linda Bird writes:

 > What can you tell me about an author named Keith Thompson?
 > I saw a book of his called Angels and Aliens."  I can't
 > recall who he is and he is not an author that all of us
 > have mentioned before (to my knowledge).  Is he reliable?
 > reputable?  a crackpot?

I don't know anything about this guy (other than having seen this
book at the bookstore) BUT ...

He's supposed to be on Larry King's show tonight (Friday) with
our friend Don Ecker.

So turn off your computer and turn on your TV!  Quick!
                                                      --  John

--
John Burke - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Clark Matthews)
Subject: David Jacobs
Date: 21 Nov 91 16:05:00 GMT

In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <15 Nov 91 17:59> Jim Speiser wrote:

 > SW> Come on people, let's get Dave back on line. It shouldn't be
 > SW> THAT difficult. Perhaps he can be setup as a point?

 JS> I agree, but is anyone willing to poll him Long Distance?


Hi Jim.  Paul Faeder's system is in the Poconos and I'm in North Jersey --
polling around Philly should not be a big deal for either of us if we can do
it during mail hour.

What's the problem with Jacobs?  Traffic on the ABDUCTION echo is so sparse he
could transfer all of his weekly packets in only 3-4 minutes of time at
2400 bps per week.  Considering he's getting lots of fodder for his book --
and guaranteeing book sales among the membership here -- is that meagre polling
schedule such an unsupportable expense for him?

Anyway, let me know in general terms where he's located.  Perhaps Paul or I
could help.

Best,
  Clark


--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Steve Rose)
Subject: Re: Weird Night On Halloween
Date: 19 Nov 91 22:28:00 GMT


 PN> -- OMNI magazine. What do you like best/least about it?  What would
 PN> you change if you could influence the editors?  Would you increase the
 PN> coverage of UFO-Paranormal events/reports r reduce it?  Should those
 PN> stories have more of an investigative (as opposed to straight

I had always thought from reading OMNI in past years...those red-paged
paranormal news clips were presented in a de-bunking light.  It was as
if they presented each story...but with the idea of having someone of
authority doubt and/or dispute each claim being presented.  Have they
changed this tone of para-article delivery as of late?  It has been a while
since I picked up an issue.




--
Steve Rose - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Steve Rose)
Subject: Re: David Jacobs
Date: 21 Nov 91 19:08:00 GMT


 > THAT difficult. Perhaps he can be setup as a point?
 MC>
 MC> Thank you for posting that update, Sheldon.  As a matter of fact, we
 MC> are  testing a new link in the Philadelphia area even as we speak.  It
 MC> should be  functional in very short order.


Philadelphia!  That close, huh.  Hmmmm....would that node happen to be a
V.32 equipped site and would he be polling ParaNet every night?  :-)




--
Steve Rose - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Andre Eichner)
Subject: ParaNet 9600 bps
Date: 11 Nov 91 21:23:00 GMT

Hello Sheldon!

In a msg of <22 Oct 91>, Sheldon Wernikoff writes to All:

 SW> Are there any ParaNet nodes running
 SW> @ 9600 bps v.32, v.42, v.42bis?

Yes, here in Berlin(Germany), HST-Dual Standard...

regards from the Ex-Wall City
cheers
   Andre
         ZDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD?
         3 FidoNet-Berlin, the UFO information service in Berlin  3
         3 FidoNet 2:245/10, GerNet 222:100/29, ParaNet 91:1021/2 3
         3 [phone]  HST/V32/V42B  14.400 bps               3
         3 Sysop: Andre Eichner                                   3
         @DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDY

--
Andre Eichner - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Hicks)
Subject: ParaNet 9600 bps
Date: 22 Nov 91 07:46:00 GMT


 > Yes, here in Berlin(Germany), HST-Dual Standard...

  Would you be interested in also picking up Fidonet's Zone 1 UFO echo? Feeds
in various high-speed types are available.
  Sheldon mentioned it to me a couple of day ago (I'm moderator of that echo).
Roughly 50 or so messages daily.

                                           jbh

--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: violet.berkeley.edu!chalmers
Subject: Sphinx, scalars
Date: 22 Nov 91 14:31:32 GMT

From: [e-mail] (John H. Chalmers Jr.)

It may be of interest that there will be a debate on
the age of the Sphinx as part of the 'Science for
Everyone' symposium at the Feb 1992 meeting of the
American Association for the Advancement of Science
in Chicago. One of the speakers will be Robert Schoch.
 I would expect Science to have something to
say on the age of the Sphinx in an upcoming issue.
 It's probably not too surprising that the Sphinx may be
older than the historical dynastic Egyptian civilization, as
predynastic Egyptian cultures are known
 Query: I've seen several references to scalar particles
or fields in various posts recently. What are these,  the
hypothetical spin-0, mass-generating Higgs particles/fields
of GUTS, the proposed, but not well-documented, gravity-like
forces (5th and/or 6th forces) which may or may not couple
to baryon number, or what? --- John



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Omni Comments
Date: 22 Nov 91 16:45:07 GMT

>I had always thought from reading OMNI in past years...those red-paged
>paranormal news clips were presented in a de-bunking light.  It was as
>if they presented each story...but with the idea of having someone of
>authority doubt and/or dispute each claim being presented. Have they
>changed this tone of para-article delivery as of late?  It has

        Thanks for your reply.  Well, you raise a good point because
I thought that the "offset" quote from a debunking skeptic did sort
of achieve what you've described but obviously a lot of other people
-- correction, some other people -- think that there's no debunking
at all but that unsupported stories are presented as fact without
any criticism.   The last I knew from the editor who is in charge of
that section (by the way, it's black pages now instead of red) still
asks for "offset quotes" from reputable people who disagree with the
claims of the interviewee or story.  It's not a full debunking
because it doesn't take apart the whole story, but it does offset
the claim.  The reader then can take either side he feels is more
persuasive.
        In fact, the question you raised is something people here
have suggested be added to OMNI -- a feature in which at least one
story would be taken apart by a skeptic, point by point.

        Of course you know what the magazine's answer to your
question would be:  buy OMNI and see! <g>
        Thanks for adding your comments.  Please feel free to ask
again if I've missed something or if you think of something else.
And, by the way, would you use the OMNI ONLINE service if they do
start one?  Would cost be a factor?  If they put it in an existing
service such as Compuserve or Genie, would that affect your
willingness or interest in using it?
        And if you would use an ONLINE service from OMNI, what would
you want to get out of it?  What would you be looking for?
                                        ==Peggy==
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: hpvclmd.vcd.hp.com!miked
Subject: America's New Secret Aircraft
Date: 22 Nov 91 22:45:29 GMT

From: Mike Dobbs <[e-mail]>

The cover article of December's Popular Mechanics is about new secret American
aircraft.  This article builds upon Aviation Week's article of about a year
ago.

'According to reports over the past two years, a vast black flying wing,
estimated at between 600 and 800 ft. in width, has passed silently over the
city streets, empty desert and rural freeways.  The craft moved so slowly one
observer said that he could jog along with it.  A pattern of seemingly
random white lights on the vehicle's black underside provided 'constellation
camouflage' against the starry sky.  Observers detailed unlikely maneuvers
in which the vehicle stopped, rotated in place and hovered vertically....'

It is an interesting article well worth reading.

Also don't forget the National Geographic Special on crop circles this Sunday
(Nov 24) at 9pm EST/ 6pm PST on TBS.  It is called 'The Mystery of the Crop
Circle'.  My TV listing show it repeating on Monday night (Nov 25) at 10pm PST.

--------
  Mike Dobbs        /    Internet: [e-mail]




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Rick Moen)
Subject: Re: Crop circle researcher
Date: 19 Nov 91 07:58:20 GMT

> I do not believe that these two Men craeted the circles in the manner
> that they displayed on Television here in Australia. First of all
> there is the number of them, their quality of manufacture and there
> various locations. I feel that a great proportion of these "Crop
> Circles" are indeed a hoax, but this cannot explain all of them.

David --

Glad we're in agreement on much of this.  However, I hope you didn't
miss my fundamental point:  that Andrews ADMITTED that the two fellows'
technique could account for many such circles, that he and other
cereologists had dismissed A PRIORI the possibility of hoaxing with no
meaningful effort to creatively experiment to determine how they MIGHT
be hoaxed, and that they STILL don't seem to making any such effort.

The point of Bower and Chorley is NOT whether they accounted for ALL
crop circles.  The point is that their claimed method is one that COULD
and probably DID fool cereologists.  If two bored old geezers could so
easily hoodwink Andrews, how on Earth can one be confident that
cereologists aren't being also fooled by other hoaxers?  When their
investigatory methods are so obviously vulnerable to hoaxing, how can
one put much confidence in ANY of their conclusions?  Should we really
fall back on "There are unexplained cases, therefore there must be
something truly mysterious going on"?  Any field like this will always
have unexplained cases, if only for lack of data, after all.

It's just that I keep getting the impression that the circle-chasers
are refusing to learn the obvious lesson from this.

Best Regards,
Rick M.

--
Rick Moen - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Rick Moen)
Subject: "mars Effect"
Date: 19 Nov 91 08:19:53 GMT

Not sure this is literally speaking in the correct conference, so I'll
make this short:  Quite a few years back, a former CSICOP director named
Dennis Rawlins published a strongly-worded article in "Fate" magazine,
taking to task CSICOP for supposedly bungling and then covering up an
investigation of Michel Gauquelin's "Mars Effect" (quasi-astrological)
claim.  The article was extremely emotional, and extremely poorly
supported, but has been widely quoted ever since.  Rawlins's article was
entitled "sTARBABY".

Avionics writer Philip J. Klass then wrote and submitted to "Fate" a
carefully-researched and devastating rebuttal to Rawlins, an article
that he titled "Crybaby".  "Fate" categorically refused to publish it,
or to in any way air the other side of the story.  Accordingly, while
many have read the original article (or any of several derivative works
that took it at face value), very few people have ever read the
rebuttal.

Well, Robert Sheaffer and I have now scanned in the article (and OCR'd
it), and have it available as a text file.  I've posted it to the BITNET
SKEPTIC discussion list, and also uploaded it to File Library #10
("Paranormal Issues") in the Compuserve Issue Forum ("GO ISSUES") as
"CRYBAB.PJK".  In addition, it's available as "CRYBABY.ZIP" for download
or FReq from this node, Paranet 9:1012/2, FidoNet 1:125/27,
1-415-648-8944 in San Francisco, 2400/HST/V.32/V.32bis.  You'll find it
interesting.

If people are interested, I'll upload it to this echo (or P_GENERAL, as
the moderator prefers).  It would constitute about 11 messages.

Best Regards,
Rick Moen
Vice-Chair, Bay Area Skeptics
Member, Electronic Communication Subcommittee, CSICOP
(but not purporting to speak for anyone but himself)

--
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********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to********
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 For administrative requests (subscriptions, back issues) send to:

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******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************

                Info-ParaNet Newsletters   Volume I  Number 504

                          Tuesday, November 26th 1991

Today's Topics:

                               Q&A: John Burroughs
                                   Bill Cooper
                            Weird night on Halloween
                             Re: Q&A: John Burroughs
                                 Re: Bill Cooper
                                  Omni Comments
                            RAF BENTWATERS/WOODBRIDGE
                                 Re: Bill Cooper
                               Q&A: John Burroughs
                                   Bill Cooper
                                   Re: Author
                             Re: Q&A: John Burroughs
                                 Re: Bill Cooper
                              Crop Circles: a hoax?
                                   Bill Cooper
                                  David Jacobs
                                   Gulf Breeze
                                  "mars Effect"
                          America's New Secret Aircraft
                                Paranet 9600 Bps
                                  Hyser Report
                                     Author
                                Re: Hyser report

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Q&A: John Burroughs
Date: 21 Nov 91 22:35:00 GMT


                    PARANET Q&A: JOHN BURROUGHS


I think I mentioned that we were going to be doing this in a message a couple
of months ago, but I have been very busy lately, so now's my chance.

A couple of years back, I asked ParaNetters to post their most burning
questions for Budd Hopkins, which I compiled and passed on to him. The
resulting Q&A file was then published online and in Oddysey Magazine. It was
quite a success, and shed some light on a lot of issues. I'd like to try to do
the same thing on a regular basis with other UFO luminaries.

As you probably are aware, John Burroughs is a key witness to the Bentwaters
Incident, which was covered in some detail on the season opener of Unsolved
Mysteries. John's rendering of the incident has added a new patina of
credibility to the case, and he is willing - anxious, really - to answer
people's questions about what happened, his role in it, and what it could
possibly have been. In addition, John is in regular touch with Col. Charles
Halt and other witnesses and can pass questions on to them as well.

If you have any questions or comments about the Bentwaters case that you would
like to address to any of these witnesses, please post them in reply to this
message. I will compile all the questions and send them on to John, and then
will transcribe his responses to the network.

Also, we're open to suggestions for future Q&A subjects. Among all the members
of this network, there's barely a major UFO figure in the world that cannot be
reached fairly easily for comments. And many of them have written books that
they would just love to see discussed here, so they aren't the least bit shy.

As I said before, this approach has been hugely successful in the past, and
can really demonstrate the power of computer networking. I invite you all to
participate. Let's see some questions!


Jim Speiser

--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Bill Cooper
Date: 22 Nov 91 22:08:00 GMT

I thought I'd never mention this name again, but I thought y'all might be
interested to know...


Bill Cooper was just on a radio show here in Phoenix, talking on the topic of
the Kennedy Assassination. Yes, he's still touting the "Greer Shot Kennedy"
theory. Even more interestingly, though, he is now backpedaling on the aliens
bit, saying that its all a ruse by the government to get us to unite behind
the New World Order.

Someone called in and said that he'd read many articles by Cooper claiming that
UFOs were real and that the government was in cahoots with the aliens, and
Cooper asked, "Did you see those articles on a computer BBS?" He said "yes."
Cooper then said, "Those weren't written by me. Someone wrote a bunch of
hogwash articles using my name and uploaded them to a bunch of computer
bulletin board systems."


For the record (as if I even had to tell you this), the man speaking was very
definitely the same Bill Cooper that I had spoken with back when all this first
started, back when this same Bill Cooper was claiming that MJ-12 was real, and
that the government was in cahoots with the aliens. This man will obviously
stop at nothing, even denying his own previous handiwork.

Interestingly, the caller told Cooper, "By the way, Vicki Cooper and Lars
Hanson said `Hi', and to tell you that you are still the biggest liar in the
world."

Awwrriiiighht! Anyone out there wanna claim credit for that call?

Jim

--
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UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Ron Navarro)
Subject: Weird night on Halloween
Date: 22 Nov 91 23:46:00 GMT

I have been a reader of OMNI since it's first publication.  Over those
years I have found myself in places where current UFO information was
hard to come by.  But, due to the easy access to OMNI I could always
count on reading a new article every month.  I am happy to see that
section of the magazine has survived over the years.  Although, it has
been increasingly difficult to find this particular section in the
magazine, at least for me.  In the past the red color was easy to find.
 Listing the UFO UPDATE/paranormal section in the table of contents
would help.  The reports are interesting but to me sometimes too short.
 Also a more scientific-investigative tone integrated with the existing
reporting styles seems to be called for these days.  Above all, don't
stop a good thing.
Ron

--
Ron Navarro - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Q&A: John Burroughs
Date: 23 Nov 91 04:55:00 GMT

Hi JIm,
   In regards to a Q and A forum, I bet I will have questions for
Zecharia Sitchin after I read his interview with Don Ecker in the next
issue of "UFO."

Thanks,

Linda

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Bill Cooper
Date: 23 Nov 91 05:03:00 GMT

Hi Jim,
   I just missed that show (school was still in session).  Did you tape
it?  I heard some of the after-talk, though.

ttyl,
    Linda

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Omni Comments
Date: 24 Nov 91 00:04:00 GMT

>has survived over the years.  Although, it has been
>increasingly difficult to find this particular section in the
>magazine, at least for me.  In the past the red color was easy
>to find.  Listing the UFO UPDATE/paranormal section in the
>table of contents would help.  The reports are interesting but
>to me sometimes too short.  Also a more
>scientific-investigative tone integrated with the existing
>reporting styles seems to be called for these days.  Above all,
>don't stop a good thing.
>Ron

        Hi Ron,
        Thank you very much for your comments about OMNI and the UFO
sections.  I know what you mean about finding the listing in the
table of contents -- but if you look for "Antimatter" that should
help. That's the title of the section which includes as its first
page,"UFO Update."  It's not in every issue --note it's not in the
Dec. 91 issue and, if memory serves, wasn't in the Nov. '91 either,
-- but I have just spoken with one of the editors there and asked if
it was going to be continued or dropped (its absence worried me) and
she tells me there's no question of dropping either it or the
Continuum section (silver pages -- used to be silver, that is, now
just plain pages -- at the front of the magazine) because those are
the two most popular features which readers like best.
        Many people have been suggesting a more critical analysis of
the stories in that section so maybe the weight of opinion will
change what the editors do.
        I'll relay your comments to the editors.
        If you think of something else you'd like to add, please
don't hesitate...BTW, would you use the ONLINE service if OMNI goes
to that?  And if so, what would you like it to provide -- what would
attract you to use it?  (Some people have suggested having the
articles online, past and current ones, as well as a way of asking
questions or getting more info about those articles.)
        Did I understand correctly that you think the section has
become too small -- the UFO Update, that is?  The Antimatter section
has been reduced in numbers of pages in the last several issues.  If
you think it should be brought back up to its previous length, I'll
pass that along too.
        Thanks, again, for your comments!
                                        ==Peggy==
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (James Hudnall)
Subject: RAF BENTWATERS/WOODBRIDGE
Date: 24 Nov 91 03:06:01 GMT

I was station at RAF BENTWATERS and for a short time at WOODBRIDGE it's
sister base in 1976-77. I missed out on the later UFO stuff, but I can tell
you there were a lot of strange stories going around even before then.
Before you ask, I was a security guard, just like the guys who spotted those
UFOs in the Woodbridge flap. I was on the night shift/graveyard shift (it
alternated) also.
Anyway, two stories went around the base. One was about East End Charlie, a
ghost which was supposedly from a crashed WWII pilot. Bentwaters and
Woodbridge were used for crashed landings when pilots came across the
channel with damaged planes during the war. East End Charlie supposedly
haunted the east end of the runway and sometimes was seen in the woods
nearby.
I'm planning to write a text file about the Bentwaters stories I heard which
I'll called BENTTALE.TXT. They're interesting stories, whether true or not.
I will say this much. Some of the people I talked to on base who claimed to
have experienced these events were fairly credible and looked extremely
disturbed when they told them to me. They didn't act like they were clowning
around or making stuff up.

--
James Hudnall - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Delton)
Subject: Re: Bill Cooper
Date: 24 Nov 91 00:58:00 GMT

I wish I *could* claim credit for that call to Cooper.  I didn't hear
the show but one of the others in my office was listening to it.  He
came in after it was over and starting telling me about the incredible
new theory he just heard about how Kennedy was assassinated.  After
only a couple of sentences I asked him who had been on the radio.  He
wasn't sure.  I asked if it could have been a Bill Cooper.  Yep, that
was the guy.  What's so stomack turning is that when people hear a calm
voice say such-and-so on the radio they will usually believe it.

--
Jim Delton - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Q&A: John Burroughs
Date: 22 Nov 91 07:05:51 GMT

In a message to Jim Speiser <22 Nov 91 21:55> Linda Bird wrote:

 LB> Hi JIm,
 LB>   In regards to a Q and A forum, I bet I will have questions for
 LB> Zecharia Sitchin after I read his interview with Don Ecker in the
 LB> next issue of "UFO."

 LB> Thanks,
 LB>
 LB> Linda

That's the spirit. There's a lot of interest in Sitchin lately. Speaking of
which, you missed a good meeting the other night. Sitchin's name came up there,
as well.

Jim


--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Bill Cooper
Date: 22 Nov 91 07:07:12 GMT

In a message to Jim Speiser <22 Nov 91 22:03> Linda Bird wrote:

 LB> Hi Jim,
 LB>   I just missed that show (school was still in session).  Did
 LB> you tape it?  I heard some of the after-talk, though.

Naw, didn't tape it, didn't want to waste a good cassette. They went from one
extreme to the other. A guy named Jim Moore preceded Cooper, and talked about
his book, "Conspiracy of One," in which he tries to show that Oswald, acting
alone, shot Kennedy. Funny how that's become the controversial position these
days, but Moore defended his position well. He claims that a lot of these books
out about the assassination are just so much conspiracy-mongering, that the
authors conveniently leave out facts or do shoddy research. He's kinda like the
Phil Klass of JFKology, but like I said, he did a fairly credible job.

Jim


--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Author
Date: 24 Nov 91 04:53:00 GMT

Hi John,

EEEK!  Darn, I missed the Larry King show, thus missing Don Ecker and
Keith Thompson!  Well, I will have to now rely on everyone's reports.

Thanks for reminder!

Linda

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Q&A: John Burroughs
Date: 24 Nov 91 05:25:00 GMT

Hi Jim,

Do you mean the Thurs., Nov. 21st meeting at Ray's?  I had my last
class meeting (and you know you have to be there for the LAST night, or
else!).  I asked Ray if he could change the date, but he couldn't.
Tell me more in Private mail, or just call.

Thanks,

Linda

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Bill Cooper
Date: 24 Nov 91 05:34:00 GMT

Hiya Jim,
    Don't you think that the subject of JFK's asassination is going to
come up in the 3rd week of November for the rest of our lives??  Geez.
It was on KFYI all afternoon today, and Friday morning as well.

   I think old Bill Cooper is a clever kookie for getting on the radio
right about now and discussing JFKology.  (Did you invent that term?  I
like it.)  This gives him a great chance to hawk his books, make new
converts, and urk the rest of us!

Thanks for the info on Jim Moore.  He's probably correct.

TTYL,

Linda

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Crop Circles: a hoax?
Date: 24 Nov 91 05:46:00 GMT

Hi Andre,

Greetings from Arizona!  I would like to know what the German
newspapers had to say when the news came out of England about the two
elderly gentlemen who claimed to have made all those crop circles.

About a month ago, a close family friend of ours was staying with us
for two weeks.  He's from Bielefeld; we argued UFOs, aliens, and crop
circles for several days.  He was determined to convince me that
dave and Doug (in England) had done all those circles.  I think I
finally wore him down because I have a lot of literature here at home.

But I would like to know how this subject was handled in the German
press.  Respond if you can.

Many thanks; by the way, I was in Germany in July 1989 in Berlin.  We
didn't think the wall would come down for another 30 yea.  Just goes
to show you how fast things can change.

Regards,

Linda Bird

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Bill Cooper
Date: 23 Nov 91 04:52:26 GMT

In a message to Jim Speiser <23 Nov 91 17:58> Jim Delton wrote:

 JD> been a Bill Cooper.  Yep, that was the guy.  What's so stomack
 JD> turning is that when people hear a calm voice say such-and-so on
 JD> the radio they will usually believe it.

You got that right. "Oh, but he sounded so CREDIBLE..." That and a nickel will
buy you this "Dare To Be Great" T-shirt....


Jim

--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: David Jacobs
Date: 23 Nov 91 05:30:53 GMT

In a message to Jim Speiser <21 Nov 91 09:05> Clark Matthews wrote:


 CM> What's the problem with Jacobs?  Traffic on the ABDUCTION echo is
 CM> so sparse he could transfer all of his weekly packets in only 3-4
 CM> minutes of time at 2400 bps per week.  Considering he's getting
 CM> lots of fodder for his book -- and guaranteeing book sales among
 CM> the membership here -- is that meagre polling schedule such an
 CM> unsupportable expense for him?

According to Mike Corbin the problem is in the process of being taken care of.
We should have a Philly node soon, this time a (very) dedicated one. But I'm
sure your offer of help is appreciated!

Jim

--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Gulf Breeze
Date: 23 Nov 91 05:34:14 GMT

In a message to All <22 Nov 91 12:08> ncar!doc.imperial.ac.uk!a wrote:

 nc> Does anyone have any of the Ed Walters
 nc> photos on a gif file that I could view to complete the picture.
 nc> Thanks, Robert

Robert:

I have three photos GIFfed online here. Can you file request? The wildcard name
GBREEZ*.GIF will get all three.

Jim

--
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INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: "mars Effect"
Date: 23 Nov 91 05:37:53 GMT

In a message to All <19 Nov 91 01:19> Rick Moen wrote:


 RM> If people are interested, I'll upload it to this echo (or P_GENERAL, as
 RM> the moderator prefers).  It would constitute about 11 messages.

I dunno bout uploading it here (although I'm sure it will be welcome), but I
would very much like to have it as an important addition to my library. I will
FREQ it from you.

Thanks,
     Jim

--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: America's New Secret Aircraft
Date: 23 Nov 91 05:39:42 GMT

In a message to All <22 Nov 91 18:50> ncar!hpvclmd.vcd.hp.com!m wrote:



 nc> 'According to reports over the past two years, a vast black flying wing,
 nc> estimated at between 600 and 800 ft. in
 nc> width, has passed silently over the
 nc> city streets, empty desert and rural
 nc> freeways.  The craft moved so slowly one
 nc> observer said that he could jog along with it.  A pattern of seemingly
 nc> random white lights on the vehicle's
 nc> black underside provided 'constellation
 nc> camouflage' against the starry sky.  Observers detailed unlikely maneuvers
 nc> in which the vehicle stopped, rotated in place and hovered vertically....'

 nc> It is an interesting article well worth reading.

Does it attempt to draw a connection between these sightings and existing
government experiments?

 nc> Also don't forget the National
 nc> Geographic Special on crop circles this Sunday
 nc> (Nov 24) at 9pm EST/ 6pm PST on TBS.
 nc> It is called 'The Mystery of the Crop
 nc> Circle'.  My TV listing show it repeating
 nc> on Monday night (Nov 25) at 10pm PST.

I was told this would be on Discovery. Will it be on both?

Jim

--
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INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Paranet 9600 Bps
Date: 24 Nov 91 05:06:02 GMT



 Hello Andre,

 Acutally I was looking for a ParaNet node utilizing V.32, but a
 bit closer to Chicago than Berlin <g>. I'm afraid the LD charges
 will not be compensated for by the HS transfers, but thanks for
 the offer.

 BTW, _UFO Magazine_ did a cover photo one issue back displaying an
 array of agriglyph type crop circles discovered in Germany. Are
 you familiar with this photo/formations? If so, I would be most
 interested in hearing your comments and observations.

 Take care,

 -= Sheldon =-

--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Don Ecker)
Subject: Hyser Report
Date: 21 Nov 91 18:30:00 GMT

John Hicks said:

 >   Sure, no problem. Didn't you or Don get a scanner and OCR software a
 > while back? I'm in the market and looking for advice. Could come in
 > handy.

John, now that my system is back up and working ( God, I hope so!) ..Yes Mike
and I both have scanners and OCR software. If I can be of assistance, please
ask.

Don

--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Don Ecker)
Subject: Author
Date: 21 Nov 91 18:40:00 GMT

Linda Bird;

 > What can you tell me about an author named Keith Thompson?  I saw a book
 > of his called Angels and Aliens."  I can't recall who he is and he is
 > not an author that all of us have mentioned before (to my knowledge).
 > Is he reliable?  reputable?  a crackpot?

Linda, I will be meeting Keith on the Larry King Live show on CNN on November
22nd. You can make your mind up about it then.......

Don

--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Schuyler)
Subject: Re: Hyser report
Date: 22 Nov 91 15:39:00 GMT

In a message to Michael Schuyler <11-16-91 23:40> John Hicks wrote:
JH>    But we could just as easily someday demonstrate how to hoax a real
JH>  TRUFO photo. And if we did out-hoax a potential hoaxer, we still
JH>  haven't proved his photos to be fake, just that it can be done.

That's the truly frustrating thing about phtos, particularly these days. We
can perhaps prove a photo a fake if it's detectable. But that's the only
bona fide conclusion anyone can come to. All other answers amount to "We
don't know."

--
Michael Schuyler - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to********
                      'infopara' at the following address:

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 For administrative requests (subscriptions, back issues) send to:

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******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************

                Info-ParaNet Newsletters   Volume I  Number 505

                         Wednesday, November 27th 1991

Today's Topics:

                               The End of Freedom
                                   Re: GB UFOs
                                   Belgian UFO
                                   Gulf Breeze
                          Gulf Breeze Sentinel buy-out
                         An Interesting Development ...
                        Soviet American UFO/ET Symposium
                                  Thanks Linda
                                 Aussie Circles?
                          Re: RAF BENTWATERS/WOODBRIDGE
                            Weird Night On Halloween
                                     Author
                            UFORA - change of address
                             UFORA moving to Cairns

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Steve Rose)
Subject: The End of Freedom
Date: 23 Nov 91 17:58:00 GMT


 CM> elaborating, yes, it has been happening.  It doesn't seem to bother Steve
 CM> Rose though

Probably cause I do not agree that it has been happening.  Let's get those
priorities straight...  You - For :  I - Against       ;-)

 CM> have supposedly been sighted in Maryland, Delaware and (I
 CM> think) Pennsylvania over the last year or so.  I hear about people
 CM> mounting Bigfoot Expeditions, etc., in Maryland.


Hey...do you think Washington State deserves all the fun?  Sure we have them...
right after the annual Maryland Potomac Clam-Bake Festivals.  :-)




--
Steve Rose - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Hicks)
Subject: Re: GB UFOs
Date: 24 Nov 91 19:42:02 GMT


 * Forwarded from "UFO"
 * Originally by Bert Close
 * Originally to John Hicks
 * Originally dated 22 Nov 1991, 19:50

John,
  MUFON investigator Gary Watson authored an article in the Nov. 15
1991 issue of the Islander (Pensacola, FL) in which he describes a UFO
sighting that took place on Nov. 5.  Of particular interest is that this time
the craft is claimed to be the same type of UFO first reported by Ed Walters
and others in 1987.  Photographs, one of which is shown, were taken by Patti
Weatherford and Ann Morrison who used a 440 mm lens and fast action 3200 ASA
film.  Watson states " the configuration of "portholes" and the very bright
bottom "power" light resembles the outlilne of the UFO that Ed Walters
described in his best selling book "The Gulf Breeze Sightings."" The photo
connected with the article shows an object that looks very much like the
"bottom" of an Ed-like craft with blobs of light above it making it look
"crown-like."

  Also in a letter to the editor of the Gulf Breeze Sentinel (Nov. 14, 1991
issue), Don Ware wrote of his concern about the lack of reporting of UFO
activity in the Sentinel since the newspaper was purchaced by Gannett over a
month ago.  He states that he believes 10 November was the 103rd sighting
recorded in GB in the past year.  He claims "the recent photographic evidence
indicates the UFOs frequenting Gulf Breeze now are type-2 craft as
photographed most clearly by Frances Walters on 26 Jan. 88.

--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Belgian UFO
Date: 25 Nov 91 06:25:00 GMT

The following report has been provided by Jean Manfroid of the Liege
University and the Institute of Astrophysics.  Mr. Manfroid is a subscriber to
the ParaNet digest on Internet.

SCIENTISTS OF THE ASTROPHYSICAL INSTITUTE OF THE UNIVERSITY OF
LIEGE COMMUNICATE THE FOLLOWING REPORT ON THE SOBEPS BOOK
ABOUT BELGIAN UFOS, AND AGREE TO HAVE IT DISTRIBUTED VIA PARANET.

Belgian UFOs

SOBEPS, a Belgian association of UFO buffs has compiled and
published a series of accounts of UFO sightings in the Liege
area. The title is "The UFO wave over Belgium" (in French), and
it is now a top selling book here. The preface is by the French
CNRS scientist Petit, well-known for the fact that his scientific
inspiration is due to aliens (coming from planet UMMO, 15 light
years from us, as you should know). Coincidentally, Dr Petit and
others are publishing at the same time books on the UMMITs.

The Belgian scientific community and specially the astronomers have
followed the development of this UFO story since its beginning
two years ago. The first events were reported at a time when
many astronomers were busy observing several comets, among other
things.  Moreover,  Western Europe was blessed with nice
weather, so that the night sky was particularly well examined by
many expert observers. A very impressive Venus hung for several
months in the evening sky.  There was  also a rather intense
activity at the local airport, with frequent AWACS patrols. And,
as usual, lots of aircrafts crossed the Liege area, with, at any
time, a minimum of 3 or 4 to be seen.

As always during the eastern elongations of Venus (sensibly more
than for the morning elongations, like the current one), we
received many calls from people excited by strange lights
crossing the evening sky. When more information was asked, it
almost invariably turned out to be Venus, although the Moon and
halos were sometimes implied.  We were also asked to examine
several video tapes received by the national TV station.  Again,
Venus was almost always the culprit.  These tapes were, as a rule,
affected by very bad images, the automatic focusing being fooled
by surrounding objects, or by trying to catch a point source at
infinity... Nice effects were obtained with extra-focal images
of the aperture stop, pulsating disks etc.  We were often
surprised by the descriptions given by the people who took the
videos: they cited distances of 30 or 50 meters, they spoke of
hanging globes, moving rapidly, following their cars etc...
though their recordings showed much more benign events.
Invariably, all those people were looking at the sky for the first
time. This raises some doubts on the validity of occasional
witnesses.

Some of these accounts, as well as others, were relayed by the
media. Video tapes of aircrafts at night, showing only their
lights were visible.  The snowball effect rapidly developed.
Witnesses appeared, reporting triangles in the sky, while
frustrated astronomers, albeit logging many more hours of
observations (with sophisticated equipment), continued to see
satellites, meteorites, aircrafts (at times as triangles of
light spots).  Apparently SOBEPS accepts the fact that Belgian
UFOs adopted the international conventions for the lights on
their flying crafts. That three lights could form
a triangle seemed to have impressed SOBEPS analysts.
Meanwhile the public became "ripe" for a "serious"
brain-storming by SOBEPS.
Several observing campaigns were set up with many UFOs being caught.
The air force was somehow involved, with air fighters ready to
take off on short notice.  One fighter caught, during a few
seconds, spurious echoes with supersonic velocities. Certainly
some atmospheric or electronic disturbance, but this was
interpreted by SOBEPS as the ultimate proof of alien visitors
(when a police radar clocked a road signal above the speed limit
some years ago, nobody thought of that interpretation). Nothing
was seen visually, which means that, though UFOs can be invisible,
they do not have the certainly much simpler stealth technology.
Again, during those campaigns, expert amateur and professional
astronomers saw no UFOs at all.

All these accounts are compiled in the biased SOBEPS book.  A
typical example of the scientific philosophy of the SOBEPS can
be found in a UFO sighting during the February 90 lunar eclipse.
Hundreds of people were in the field, observing the sky, and
they saw the Moon, but also planets, stars, satellites and
aircrafts.  But from inside the bathroom of a nearby house, one
person glimpsed some fast-moving light close to the Moon. She
got another brief glimpse from another window.  This witness was
retained in the SOBEPS compilation.  The poor folks who had
perfect observing conditions, who knew something about the sky,
and who saw a plane instead of a UFO, are not given consideration.

The photographic and video material included in the report is
very poor.  After picking out aircrafts and astronomical
objects, only out-of-focus, blurred images remain. Some of them
certainly are fabricated. Most awful of all is the grotesque
cover picture.  One of the strangest aspects is that, in spite
of thousands of witnesses, no clear, crisp, image has been
produced. Any other so widespread phenomenon would have resulted
in hundreds of nice photographs and kilometers of indisputable
video material.

The release of the SOBEPS report was greeted by full-page
articles in newspapers with provocative titles stating that
alien visitors are among us, and that this is now a
scienfically accepted fact.  The national TV network danced to
the same tune.

We made public our concerns on the issue and a note was quickly
released to the press by 10 scientists from various
institutions. This note found some positive echoes in the media.
Our intent was to disprove the alleged implication of the
scientists in this affair (only 2 or 3 scientists are involved
in the SOBEPS activities).  We have looked at the SOBEPS report,
and we found that it is in no way a scientific work. It does not
bring the tiniest bit of evidence in favor of alien visitors.
Discovering evidence of extra-terrestrial life would be a
tremendous feat in the history of mankind, but SOBEPS-like works
do nothing toward such a discovery.  On the contrary, there is
some risk to bring bad publicity to serious projects like SETI.
A conclusion that might be drawn by some, is that the Belgian
UFO wave is just a well-orchestrated commercial affair, with
deliberate exploitation of human credulity.

Our general opinion is that the SOBEPS report totally lacks
scientific objectivity.

N.B. An excellent, in-depth, exhaustive, coverage of the UFO phenomenon,
had been published in early 1990, by Marc Hallet --
"Historical and scientific analysis of the UFO phenomenon" --
but in a limited number of copies. The small impact of this
serious, scientific, work, compared to the giant waves generated
by SOBEPS and other farcical compilations is frustrating.


J. Demaret, N. Grevesse, A. Lausberg, J. Manfroid, A. Noels
J. Surdej, J.P. Swings

(Institute of Astrophysics, University of Liege)

--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Gulf Breeze
Date: 23 Nov 91 11:33:00 GMT

In a message to All <22 Nov 91 12:08> ncar!doc.imperial.ac.uk!a wrote:

 nc> Does anyone have any of the Ed Walters
 nc> photos on a gif file that I could view to complete the picture.


Hello, Robert!  GIFs of three of the Gulf Breeze pictures are available on my
BBS and on Jim Speiser's BBS in Arizona (where I got them from).  They are
scans of the photo plates in the book -- and therefore lack some detail.

They're also rather large:  450K, 250K, and about 300K.  They'll take a couple
of hours to download at 2400 MNP.

I'll be installing a 9600 bps U.S. Robotics HST modem within a few days, but
unless you're similarly equipped you won't be able to use the higher speeds.

Might be less expensive to buy the book there...

Best,
  Clark



--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: hpvclmd.vcd.hp.com!miked
Subject: Gulf Breeze Sentinel buy-out
Date: 25 Nov 91 22:47:43 GMT

From: Mike Dobbs <[e-mail]>

I heard that the Gulf Breeze Sentinel was recently sold to Gannett(SP?)
Publication - the large newspaper conglomerate.  Apparently the owner
did not want to sell, but Gannett kept raising their offer until it
became such a ridiculously large sum that the sale finally went through.
Has anyone else heard more complete info?? John Hicks... are you listening?

I also understand that there have been 17 crop circles (some of them
Celtic cross type) which have recently appeared in Australia since it
is Spring there now.  Can you confirm this Keith or Robert?

--------
  Mike Dobbs        /    Internet: [e-mail]




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: wrs.com!davidj
Subject: An Interesting Development ...
Date: 26 Nov 91 04:30:24 GMT

From: [e-mail] (David Jones)


I thought that I would share some interesting information with you.

A week or so ago, a friend of mine spoke with Wendelle Stevens (perhaps the
premier UFO investigator of our time) at his home.  At that time, Wendelle
indicated that he had a special surprise guest that would be appearing at
his International UFO Conference in Las Vegas in a few weeks.  He said that it
was someone on 'the order of Bob Lazar'.  Someone that had worked in/around
S4 and/or Area 51 (the infamous location of U.S. Secret Government [hereinafter
USSG] testing of extraterrestrial spacecraft).  He implied that this person
is another 'whistleblower' (we need more!) and would blow the top off things.

This past weekend, I visited with an acquaintance.  This person told me that
they had recently chatted with a USSG test pilot.  This test pilot worked at
'Northern Nellis Air Force base' - the location of S4, Area 51 and Groom Lake.
He tested alien craft for the USSG.  He said that the USSG had extraterrestrial
spacecraft that were either captured, shot down or crashed. The USSG was in the
process of repairing these craft and building new ones based upon the alien ones
in their possession.  This person is one among many USSG test pilots that fly
these craft.  These craft have become to be known as HPACs (Human Piloted Alien
Craft).  This would indicate that the vast amounts of test flights that are
witnessed by hundreds in the area of Racheal Nevada are, indeed, alien craft,
or models of alien craft, piloted by USSG members.  The test pilot also
indicated that whatever things we have already heard about what is going on at
Nellis, is true, and it has already gone way beyond whatever we can imagine or
what we have heard.  He said that all this was 'already off the drawing boards'.
Since Lazar indicated that on one occasion, he ended up losing 3 hours in one
of the USSGs craft, and that this is due to time distortion (time travel), I
queried my acquaintance about what could possibly be beyond faster-than-light
time travel.  This person  stopped for a minute and told me that they had
made a commitment to the test pilot not to divulge certain information.
The test pilot said that there are no aliens at northern Nellis (that he was
aware of), that the genetic research that the aliens are engaged in go way
far beyond anything that we can conceive of and that the Greys are androids -
part biological and part mechanical.  Which leads one to speculate as to who, or
what, is controlling them (the Greys).  There was more, but ...

Anyway, I wondered if this USSG test pilot was the same one that Wendelle was
going to have speak at his Conference and, as I was investigating this, I was
told (and this is unverified as of yet), that when Wendelle was at the recent
L.A Whole Life Expo, he was grabbed by the F.B.I. and interrogated in regards to
who and what this person from Nellis AFB was/is.  I was told that the F.B.I.
intimidated him (nothing new) and that as a result, that this person is deep
underground and that instead of a personal appearance, as was planned, there
will only be a video of something.  If the USSG (aka F.B.I in this case) does
not already have this information, they do now.  It makes me sick to be an
American when some group, like the F.B.I., does this kind of unconstitutional,
unethical and immoral cover-up.  But, they were the ones that confiscated the
movie of the grassy knoll that shows who REALLY shot Kennedy.  Oh well.  One,
hellava country, eh what?

There's more, but, what the hell, I'll only talk to someone from the
National Reconnaissance Organization (NRO).

-------------------
  David W. Jones
  [e-mail] OR
  uunet!wrs!davidj
-------------------

   |\   O
   | \ _|\
   |     _\
   |     \
   |     _\
   |
   |
   |
   |  _///_ //
   `<`)=  _<<
       \\\  \\





--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: wrs.com!davidj
Subject: Soviet American UFO/ET Symposium
Date: 26 Nov 91 04:30:40 GMT

From: [e-mail] (David Jones)


******************************************************************************

                     Soviet American UFO/ET Symposium

                         Saturday, December 7, 1991

            Wheeler Hall, UC Berkeley (near Telegraph and Bancroft)

A Soviet test pilot will discuss her experiences about the UFO/Extraterrestrial
phenomenon with two internationally known American UFO investigators.

**MARINA POPOVICH**, a participant in the Soviet Cosmonaut program and retired
Air Force Colonel with a Ph. D. in Technical Sciences, will speak on the mass
sightings and landings of extraterrestrial craft in the territory of the USSR,
statements of military personnel and her own personal experiences. She reports
that since Glasnost, everybody in the USSR is talking about such events openly.
Dr. Popovich has many photographs of extraterrestrial craft which will be
available at the symposium.

**DR. STEVEN GREER, M.D.** is a practicing physician in an emergency trauma
center in North Carolina and the founder of CSETI, the Center for the Study of
Extraterrestrial Intelligence, a research and education organization dedicated
to the understanding of extraterrestrial intelligence. He will speak on the
development of bilateral and human-initiated contact - close Encounters of the
5th Kind. There will be a separate workshop offered for CE5 through CSETI.

**JAMES A. HARDER, Ph. D.**, Professor Emeritus of Engineering, U.C. Berkeley,
has pioneered in the use of hypnosis in close-encounter cases since 1962, and
in the study of E.T./human interactions and their influences on the planet
earth.

Special added appearance from England - **COLIN ANDREWS:** the implications
   of the Crop Circles.

Doors open at 9:15 am. Events begin at 10:00 am and end at 9:00 pm. The final
event will be a panel discussion by the ETI researchers with audience
participation. Cost is $20.00. Reservations must be received by Dec 5.

Seating is limited, so please reserve your seats in advance. Priority is given
to those who have paid advance reservations & who have arrived by 9:45am.
Tickets will be sold at the door.Please no video/tape recording. Videos and
tapes will be made available to attendees. For information, call 510 848-6043.

Sponsored by Paradigm Shift; co-sponsored by The UFO Data Research and
Investigation Center & First Sunday Study Group

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Soviet American UFO/ET Symposium Sat., Dec. 7, 1991
   Wheeler Hall, UC Berkeley

Please reserve ________ seats at $20.00 each for:

Name______________________________ Street ________________________________

City ___________________________ Zip __________ Phone ________________________

Make checks payable to: Berkeley Symposium

Send to:  Soviet American UFO/ET Symposium
    P.O. Box 9073
   Berkeley, CA 94709-9073

******************************************************************************

For more information:
-------------------
  David W. Jones
  [e-mail] OR
  uunet!wrs!davidj
-------------------




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: doc.imperial.ac.uk!aixssc.ibm.co.uk!rob
Subject: Thanks Linda
Date: 27 Nov 91 04:38:35 GMT

From: Robert Trevelyan <[e-mail]>


Linda,
 Yes indeed I did get the cuttings you sent me.
 I have sent to you via snailmail the Doug and Dave cuttings from
 Today. It is the whole week so should give you a good idea
 of the rubbish they have come up with. Not much happenning on
 the crop circle front at present, something to do with the lack
 of crop I guess. The Ogden Object writing is indeed weird, did
 you manage to get to the bottom of that one.
 Talk to you soon and thanks again, Robert
--
Robert Trevelyan   UKnet: [e-mail]
AIX Communications    VNET: TREVELR at NHBVM7
     Voice: [phone]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Aussie Circles?
Date: 27 Nov 91 05:29:03 GMT


Hello Keith,

Hope the move was successful and you're all back online now.

We've been getting some spotty reports of crop circles discovered
in Australia this spring, and I was wondering if you might update
us as to the current situation.

Thanks

-= Sheldon =-

--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: RAF BENTWATERS/WOODBRIDGE
Date: 27 Nov 91 04:04:00 GMT

Hello James,

Looks as if you are new to Paranet - Welcome!  I would be extremely
interested in seeing the file you are going to post concerning your
experiences at Bentwaters.

Glad to see you speaking up.  Thanks so much.

Regards,

Linda

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Hicks)
Subject: Weird Night On Halloween
Date: 25 Nov 91 07:45:01 GMT


 >         I also like your idea of putting it on FidoNet instead of a pay
 > service.

  I just suggested Fido since it would have the widest potential circulation.
Here on ParaNet would be good too, if Mike's willing.
  Otherwise......
  Maybe they could just appoint (and pay, maybe) someone to participate in the
various echos on behalf of the magazine. That'd be workable as long as that
participation didn't get too commercial.
  I just don't think there'd be enough participation to cover the costs of a
pay service. Right now on issuesforum's ufo section, for instance, there's
only about 10 messages.

                                           jbh

--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Hicks)
Subject: Author
Date: 25 Nov 91 07:50:02 GMT


 > What can you tell me about an author named Keith Thompson?

  I saw him with Don Ecker on Larry King, and he said some good things, but of
course they couldn't get into it very much in such a short show.
  Anyway, he and Don appeared to agree, pretty much. Aside from that, I don't
know anything about him. I'm too cheap to buy his book in hardcover unless
everyone here recommends it all of a sudden.

                                           jbh

--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: UFORA - change of address
Date: 28 Nov 91 06:40:00 GMT


UFORA has landed in Cairns, tropical Far North Queensland.
We arrived here a week ago.

We have now two divisions of UFORA - HQ and Administration
(Vladimir and Pony Godic) in Cairns, and Research Division (Keith
Basterfield) in Adelaide.

Our new addresses are as follows:

UFORA- HQ and Administration
PO Box 2435
CAIRNS Qld 4870
AUSTRALIA

UFORA Research Division
PO Box 302
MODBURY NORTH S.A. 5092
AUSTRALIA

We (HQ & Adm) are now 3800km closer to you guys in the USA.
Cairns is situated 15 degrees south of Equator, in tropical part of
Queensland, so no more cold winters for us.

Regards,
Vlad

--
Vladimir Godic - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: UFORA moving to Cairns
Date: 28 Nov 91 06:52:00 GMT


 > How much you wanna bet THE LANDING takes place in Sydney on
 > November 10th, and we won't be able to get any info out of you
 > guys for two weeks....
 >
 > Jim

Jim,
Sorry to disappoint you but no UFO landing took place in Sydney.
As a matter of fact my wife and I were looking for UFOs during our 5
day (3800km) trip from Adelaide to Cairns. Unfortunately we did not
see anything.
It's good to be back on Paranet.
Vlad

--
Vladimir Godic - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to********
                      'infopara' at the following address:

UUCP  {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom!infopara
DOMAIN  [e-mail]

 For administrative requests (subscriptions, back issues) send to:

UUCP            {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom!infopara-request
DOMAIN          [e-mail]
 To obtain back issues by anonymous ftp, connect to:

DOMAIN          ftp.uiowa.edu (directory /archives/paranet)

Mail to private Paranet/Fidonet addresses from the newsletters:
DOMAIN  [e-mail]
UUCP  scicom!paranet.org!firstname.lastname

******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************

                Info-ParaNet Newsletters   Volume I  Number 506

                           Monday, December 2nd 1991

Today's Topics:

                                Gulg Breeze Gifs.
                                   Belgian UFO
                         An Interesting Development ...
                       Re: An Interesting Development ...
                             Paranet Nodes in the UK
                               1991 VG candidates
                                 Re: Bill Cooper
                                Re: Omni Comments
                                     Author
                                   Belgian UFO
                          Gulf Breeze Sentinel buy-out
                  Mysterises Flugobject rast auf die Erde zu...
                                   Omni ONLINE
                                Re: Omni Comments
                                 To Mike Corbin
                                Gulg Breeze Gifs.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: doc.imperial.ac.uk!aixssc.ibm.co.uk!rob
Subject: Gulg Breeze Gifs.
Date: 28 Nov 91 04:39:53 GMT

From: Robert Trevelyan <[e-mail]>


+I have three photos GIFfed online here. Can you file request? The wildcard name
+GBREEZ*.GIF will get all three.
+
+Jim

Jim,
 Thanks for the offer but I am not sure if/how I could
 request the files from here as we only have a pickup/dropoff
 mail service. Can you explain to how I would go about
 requesting theses files. Thanks again for the offer.

Regards, Robert
--
Robert Trevelyan   UKnet: [e-mail]
AIX Communications    VNET: TREVELR at NHBVM7
     Voice: [phone]




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Belgian UFO
Date: 27 Nov 91 15:46:53 GMT

In a message to All <24 Nov 91 23:25> Michael Corbin wrote:

 MC> The following report has been provided by Jean Manfroid of the
 MC> Liege University and the Institute of Astrophysics.  Mr. Manfroid
 MC> is a subscriber to the ParaNet digest on Internet.

 MC> SCIENTISTS OF THE ASTROPHYSICAL INSTITUTE OF THE UNIVERSITY OF
 MC> LIEGE COMMUNICATE THE FOLLOWING REPORT ON THE SOBEPS BOOK
 MC> ABOUT BELGIAN UFOS, AND AGREE TO HAVE IT DISTRIBUTED VIA PARANET.

 MC> Belgian UFOs

Mike:

This is amazing. I think some skepticism of the skeptics is called for. For one
thing, it was my understanding that the "spurious" radar signals were seen on
three different radar scopes, including ground- and air-based. I also
understand that the latest generation of radar can filter out anomalous propagation.

Furthermore, this case does not fit the pattern of spurious sightings of Venus
or aircraft. Usually such sightings are isolated, and not part of a wave. I
find it hard to believe that so many thousands of people misinterpreted
conventional aircraft for low-flying triangular platforms with bright white
lights.

If this report had limited itself to criticizing SOBEPS' treatment of the
affair, I could accept it. But this case does not live or die by the (rather
limited) involvement of SOBEPS. They were hardly even mentioned when the wave
first began. Nonetheless, the report extrapolates from the miscues of SOBEPS
to damning the whole incident.

Naturally, my mind is open to further, more comprehensive debunkings, but I
don't think it would be proper at this time to lower the ParaNet rating of
this case until something more definitive is forthcoming.

On the other hand, I'm glad to see that this report appeared here first! And
I'm glad to see we have an open channel to Belgium!

Jim

--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: An Interesting Development ...
Date: 27 Nov 91 16:01:08 GMT

In a message to All <26 Nov 91 13:04> ncar!wrs.com!davidj@scico wrote:

 nc> From: [e-mail] (David Jones)
 nc> I thought that I would share some interesting information with you.
 nc> A week or so ago, a friend of mine
 nc> spoke with Wendelle Stevens (perhaps the
 nc> premier UFO investigator of our time) at his home.  At that time,

That's the second time you've referred to Stevens that way. Tell me, why are
you so enamored of him? Because he has the guts to present a woman from Venus
at his conventions?

 nc> is another 'whistleblower' (we need
 nc> more!) and would blow the top off things.

I predict that this person will either a) never come forward,
b) will come forward with an alias, or
c) will come forward with his real name, but will be able to provide nothing
in the way of evidence, either for his claims or his background.

Anyone care to make a wager?

Jim

--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: An Interesting Development ...
Date: 28 Nov 91 04:18:43 GMT

Hi David,

Thanks for the interesting message.  We'll just plan to keep our eyes and ears
open...wider.

Best,

Linda

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: doc.imperial.ac.uk!aixssc.ibm.co.uk!rob
Subject: Paranet Nodes in the UK
Date: 29 Nov 91 02:31:39 GMT

From: Robert Trevelyan <[e-mail]>


Hi,
 Can anyone tell me if there is any Paranet nodes in
 the UK either currently or planned. If there is not any
 could someone explain how one would go about becoming a
 node and how someone could get a private Paranet/Fidonet
 mail address. I would like to be able to access this service
 from home in the future (not immediate future).
 Keep up the excellent service and appologies for my ignorance
 of it.

Thanks, Robert
--
Robert Trevelyan   UKnet: [e-mail]
AIX Communications    VNET: TREVELR at NHBVM7
     Voice: [phone]




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com!vanth!jm
Subject: 1991 VG candidates
Date: 29 Nov 91 06:39:50 GMT

From: vanth![e-mail] (Jim Shaffer)

In case anyone needs it to debunk alien rumors, here's the list of man-made
objects that might be approaching us next month:

-----

1991VG is predicted to pass Earth on December 5th.  Smart money says it's
a Saturn V booster stage.

* From Bruce Watson:

     EVERYTHING ARTIFICIAL IN HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
   (1991VG candidates)

  112 59 MU   1 LUNA 1   USSR 02 JAN  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
  113 59 NU   1 PIONEER 4   US  03 MAR  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
   27 60 ALP  1 PIONEER 5   US  11 MAR  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
   80 61 GAM  1 VENERA 1  USSR 12 FEB  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
  221 62 ALP  1 RANGER 1   US  26 JAN  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
  222 62 ALP  2 RANGER 1 DEBRIS   US  26 JAN  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
  282 62 MU   2 RANGER 4 DEBRIS   US  23 APR  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
  374 62 A RHO1 MARINER 2   US  27 AUG  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
  375 62 A RHO2 MARINER 2 DEBRIS  US  27 AUG  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
  439 62 B ETA1 RANGER 5   US  18 OCT  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
  440 62 B ETA2 RANGER 5 DEBRIS   US  18 OCT  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
  450 62 B NU 2 MARS 1 DEBRIS  USSR 01 NOV  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
  785 64 016D ZOND 1   USSR 02 APR  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
  923 64 073A MARINER 3   US  05 NOV  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
  938 64 077A MARINER 4   US  28 NOV  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
  942 64 077B MARINER 4 DEBRIS  US  28 NOV  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
  953 64 078C ZOND 2   USSR 30 NOV  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 1298 65 023B RANGER 9 DEBRIS   US  21 MAR  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 1393 65 048A LUNA 6   USSR 08 JUN  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 1454 65 056A ZOND 3   USSR 18 JUL  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 1730 65 091A VENERA 2  USSR 12 NOV  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 1736 65 091D VENERA 2 DEBRIS  USSR 12 NOV  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 1841 65 015A PIONEER 6   US  16 DEC  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 2130 65 027D LUNA 10 DEBRIS  USSR 31 MAR  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 2393 66 075A PIONEER 7   US  17 AUG  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 2402 66 075C PIONEER 7 DEBRIS  US  17 AUG  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 2845 67 060A MARINER 5   US  14 JUN  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 2846 67 060B MARINER 5 DEBRIS  US  14 JUN  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 3066 67 123A PIONEER 8   US  13 DEC  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 3134 68 013A ZOND 4   USSR 02 MAR  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 3533 68 100A PIONEER 9   US  08 NOV  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 3627 68 118B APOLLO 8 DEBRIS   US  21 DEC  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 3759 69 014A MARINER 6   US  25 FEB  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 3760 69 014B MARINER 6 DEBRIS  US  25 FEB  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 3770 69 018B APOLLO 9 S-4-B   US  03 MAR  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 3837 69 030A MARINER 7   US  27 MAR  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 3845 69 030B MARINER 7 DEBRIS  US  27 MAR  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 3943 69 043B APOLLO 10 DEBRIS  US  18 MAY  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 3949 69 043D APOLLO 10 LM/ASC  US  18 MAY  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 4040 69 059B APOLLO 11 DEBRIS  US  16 JUL  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 5267 71 051B MARINER 9 DEBRIS  US  30 MAY  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 5861 72 012B PIONEER 10 DEBRIS US  03 MAR  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 6425 73 019B PIONEER 11 DEBRIS US  06 APR  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 6742 73 047A MARS 4   USSR 21 JUL  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 6776 73 053A MARS 7   USSR 09 AUG  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 7224 73 053D CAPSULE   USSR 09 AUG  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 6919 73 085A MARINER 10   US  03 NOV  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 7567 74 097A HELIUS 1  FRG  10 DEC  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 7569 74 097C HELIUS 1 DEBRIS   US  10 DEC  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 7570 74 097D HELIUS 1 DEBRIS   US  10 DEC  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 7947 75 054A VENERA 10  USSR 14 JUN  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 8111 75 075B VIKING 1   US  20 AUG  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 8272 75 083B VIKING 2   US  09 SEP  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 8582 76 003A HELIOS 2  FRG  15 JAN  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 8583 76 003B HELIOS 2 DEBRIS   US  15 JAN  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
 8584 76 003C HELIOS 2 DEBRIS   US  15 JAN  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
10272 77 076B VOYAGER 2 DEBRIS  US  20 AUG  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
10273 77 076C VOYAGER 2 DEBRIS  US  20 AUG  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
10321 77 064A VOYAGER 1   US  05 SEP  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
10322 77 064B VOYAGER 1 DEBRIS  US  05 SEP  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
10323 77 064C VOYAGER 1 DEBRIS  US  05 SEP  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
10912 78 051B PIONEER 12   US  20 MAY  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
11003 78 078C PIONEER 13 DEBRIS US  08 AUG  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
11004 78 079A ICE    US  12 AUG  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
11020 78 084A VENERA 11  USSR 09 SEP  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
11025 78 086A VENERA 12  USSR 14 SEP  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
12927 81 105E VENERA 13  USSR 30 OCT  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
12938 81 110A VENERA 14  USSR 04 NOV  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
14104 83 053A VENERA 15  USSR 02 JUN  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
15432 84 125A VEGA 1   USSR 15 DEC  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
15447 84 125D VEGA 1 DEBRIS  USSR 15 DEC  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
15449 84 128A VEGA 2   USSR 21 DEC  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
15450 84 128B VEGA 2 DEBRIS  USSR 21 DEC  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
15464 85 001A MS-TS  JAPAN 07 JAN  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
15465 85 001B MS-TS DEBRIS JAPAN 07 JAN  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
15875 85 056A GIOTTO   ESA  02 JUL  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
15967 85 073A PLANET A JAPAN 18 AUG  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
15969 85 073C PLANET A DEBRIS JAPAN 18 AUG  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
19281 88 058A PHOBOS 1  USSR 07 JUL  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
19282 88 058B PHOBOS 1 DEBRIS  USSR 07 JUL  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
19287 88 059A PHOBOS 2  USSR 12 JUL  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
19288 88 059B PHOBOS 2 DEBRIS  USSR 12 JUL  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT
20842 90 090B ULYSSES    US  06 OCT  HELIOCENTRIC ORBIT

Ephemerides on newly discovered asteroids and comets are posted weekly
in sci.astro.
--
     [e-mail]

-----

--
 *  From the disk of: | [e-mail]         | I'm in a groove now
 Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms        | -- or is it a rut?
 37 Brook Street      | [e-mail] |
 Montgomery, PA 17752 | [e-mail]      | (Rush, 'Face Up')




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Steve Rose)
Subject: Re: Bill Cooper
Date: 26 Nov 91 23:32:00 GMT


 JS> Shot Kennedy" theory. Even more interestingly, though, he is now
 JS> backpedaling on the aliens bit, saying that its all a ruse by the
 JS> government to get us to unite behind the New World Order.

Guess he likes to watch old 'Outer Limtis' reruns with Robert Culp in
them.

 JS> Interestingly, the caller told Cooper, "By the way, Vicki Cooper and
 JS> Lars Hanson said `Hi', and to tell you that you are still the biggest
 JS> liar in the world."

Luckily, the moderator let that go by without using the delay-dump
button.  haha.

--
Steve Rose - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Steve Rose)
Subject: Re: Omni Comments
Date: 26 Nov 91 23:32:00 GMT

In a message from Peggy Noonan to Steve Rose, it was revealed:
 PN>
 PN> Thanks for your reply.  Well, you raise a good point because I
 PN> thought that the "offset" quote from a debunking skeptic did sort of
 PN> achieve what you've described but obviously a lot of other people --
 PN> correction, some other people -- think that there's no debunking at
 PN> all but that unsupported stories are presented as fact without any
 PN> criticism.

How could they not make the connection!?  I know that these 'news items'
in the old 'Anti-Matter' were presented without judgmental references to
their validity...but one could CLEARLY see the offset of each UFO or
psychic presentation.  It would typically start out with the WHO WHAT
WHERE aspects...but before every column was finished you would get the,
"But Professor Whackenhut from the Kiss My Core Institute disagrees,
saying...".  It was clearly a debunking effort on every occasion.  Yet, I
assuuuuuuumed that this was normal for Omni, who at the time was
presenting itself as more of a commercialized scientific magazine for
us lay people.  In that light, I thought they were trying to cast any
reported paranormal activities in a less than believable light...because
of the unscientific nature of those claims.

 PN> (by the way, it's black pages now instead of red) still asks

Hmmph.  I can recall the days of Silver or Gold Continuum pages on a
doubly-thick issue.   Price of paper and ink that high?    ;-)

 PN> for "offset quotes" from reputable people who disagree with the claims
 PN> of the interviewee or story.  It's not a full debunking because it
 PN> doesn't take apart the whole story, but it does offset the claim.  The
 PN> reader then can take either side he feels is more persuasive.

Yeah...but the trouble with simply saying that a 'Professor Whackenhut
disbelieves the report' is simply that his statement is judged on the
merits of his title or experience with *like* phenomena.  Such an offset
offers little if any conter-evidence, and the reader is left feeling
cheated because there was NO support for any debunking.  One would
simply get a "We see these nuts cases all day long" white-wash.

 PN> In fact, the question you raised is something people here have
 PN> suggested be added to OMNI -- a feature in which at least one story
 PN> would be taken apart by a skeptic, point by point.

Alright!  Now there's some meat on dem bones.  :)

 PN> Of course you know what the magazine's answer to your question
 PN> would be:  buy OMNI and see! <g> Thanks for adding your comments

Well, after my ten year subscription run ended, I found little incentive
to return.  Guess my computering and work kept that from happening. ;-)



--
Steve Rose - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Greenen)
Subject: Author
Date: 27 Nov 91 15:00:00 GMT


 * Replying to a message originally to Linda Bird
 DE> Linda Bird;
 DE>
 DE>  > What can you tell me about an author named Keith Thompson?  I saw a book
 DE>  > of his called Angels and Aliens."  I can't recall who he is and he is
 DE>  > not an author that all of us have mentioned before (to my knowledge).
 DE>  > Is he reliable?  reputable?  a crackpot?
 DE>
 DE> Linda, I will be meeting Keith on the Larry King Live show
 DE> on CNN on November 22nd. You can make your mind up about it then.......
 DE>
 DE> Don

 Don; saw your show, as usual you did a good job. Maybe a bit
on the conservative side but all and all a jolly good show. I
thoyght Keith was out in left field and wrote the book to make a
buck. I don't think he did that much research or his position would
be different.
   You will have a letter forth coming that you might be interested
in. It is not UFO related but deals in the subject we discussed a
couple of weeks ago on the phone about a certain individual and his
claims. 73'S    ---JIM---
--
Jim Greenen - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Hicks)
Subject: Belgian UFO
Date: 28 Nov 91 08:18:01 GMT


 > The following report has been provided by Jean Manfroid of the Liege

  *Very* interesting. Note that the "object" filmed over Mexico City during
last summer's eclipse that Wendelle Stevens was so excited about also appears
to have been Venus.

                                           jbh

--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Hicks)
Subject: Gulf Breeze Sentinel buy-out
Date: 28 Nov 91 08:25:02 GMT


  The Gulf Breeze Sentinel was purchased  by Gannett from Duane Cook. The
purchase was announced in the Sentinel a couple of weeks ago.
  Gannett also publishes the Pensacola News-Journal, which has frequently taken
the Ed Walters case to task.
  I understand that the purchasers were badgering Cook to sell, so finally he
named an exorbitant price. They said yes, so he got to thinking about it and
raised his price, and the purchasers then agreed to that.
  So Cook is not associated with the Sentinal any more.
  Lest anyone automatically read anything sinister into the purchase, that's
simply the way Gannett operates. They buy up the competition. Plus, daily
circulation is declining while community weekly circulation is increasing, so
they're covering all the bases.
  The Sentinel is now filled with handout Health articles and big Homes Tour
articles; not a peep about ufos except that they published a letter from Don
Ware which expressed his concern.
  Another local weekly, The Islander, apparently is now publishing ufo stories.
I haven't found out where exactly it's published or who publishes it yet, but I
will and I'll probably subscribe to it.

                                           jbh

--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Andre Eichner)
Subject: Mysterises Flugobject rast auf die Erde zu...
Date: 23 Nov 91 19:47:00 GMT

Hallo Clark!
I've read the following article from a Berlin newspaper.
Sorry, for the bad format, it's the input from a handy scanner and ocr-soft.
I hope sombody can translate it for me.

*****begin******
BM/SAD Los Angeles 20.  Nov.
Eine       unheimlche     Begegnung
der        deitten Art
steht   den Menschen im  naechsten Monat bevor.
Ein Mysterioeses       Flugobjekt aus
dem    All  kommt   auf die Erde zu.
Zur Zeit ist es noch 1,9 Millionen
Kilometer von uns entfernt.  Sei-
nem Kurs nach wird es relativ na-
he an unserein Planeten  vorbeiflie-
gen.
  "Wir wissen nicht was es ist",
sagt Brian Marsden, der Direktor
des Zentralbueros      "International
Astronimical Union"  in Cam-
bridge/      Massachusetts.  "Vielleicht
wissen es die Millitaers und ver-
schweigen es.Ansonsten weiB
niemand, was es ist.  Das unbekannte Flugobjekt wird nach Be-
rechnungen    amerikanischer     Wis-
senschaftler in der  Nacht  zum 5.
Dezember an der Erde vorbeifliegen
Nach, bisherigen Erkenntnissen
ist es etwa elf Meter breit.  Am
5.  November  hatte  der  Astrono
James Scotti von  der  University
of Arizona das  mysterioese  Objekt
entdeckt.
Steve  Ostro  vom   Nasa-Labor
Pasadena sagt  dazu: "Es  ist  einer
der kleinsten Asteroiden, die  je-
mals entdeckt wurden   - wenn es
ein Asteroid ist..."   Paul Chodas
von  der  Nasa  in  Pasadena   meint
ebenfalls, das Objekt  koenne  ein
Asteroid  sein.  Moeglicherweise  ist
es jedoch auch eine    Apollo-Rake-
te, die vor 20 Jahren  ins  All  geschossen wurde.
 Theoretisch kann das Ufo  eine
Apollorakete sein.
Denn  einige  der
Antriebsraketen fuer die Raumkapseln wurden zwischen
1968 und 1972 am Mond vorbeigeschossen.

Sie verlieBen das Schwehrkraftfeld der Erde und traten in  eine  Um-
laufbahn um die Sonne ein.
Der  meiste  Raumfahrtschrott  be-
findet sich in  einer  Umlaufbahn
um die Erde.  Das mysterioese  Ob-
jekt hingegen  fliegt um die Sonne.
Seine Bahn ist weitlaeufiger  und
elliptischer   als die der Erde.  Daher
tipppen Wissenschaftler darauf,
daB es sich um ein Raumschiff handelt.
 Keiner   der  Asteroiden,
die bisher der Erde nahegekommen sind,
haben eine derartige Umlaufbahn gehabt.
 Sollte es ein
Asteroid sein, handelt es  sich  um
einen bisher  unbekannten  Typ.
Gelegentlich stoBen Steroiden   mit der ERde zusammen.
So gibt es wissenschaftliche Theorien, nach
denen ein massiver  Asteroidenein-
schlag  einst  eine   Klimaveraende-
rung  ausgeloest  hat, durh  die  die
Dinosaurier ausstarben.
 Das  mysterioese   Flugobjekt   wird
unseren   Planeten   in   einem   Ab-
stand von  500  000  Kilometern  pas-
sieren.  Nach  astronomischen   Kate-
gorien   bedeutet   das:   "Zusammen-
stoB knapp verfehlt"'.  Vielleicht ist
es ein Asteroid, vielleicht  Apollo-
Schrott.  Fuer   Menschen   mit   viel
Phantasie  koennten  es  auch   kosmi-
sche   Zwerge   auf   Erkundungsreise
sein.  Joerg  Strey
*******end********

cheers
   Andre

--
Andre Eichner - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Omni ONLINE
Date: 29 Nov 91 18:45:00 GMT

>  I just suggested Fido since it would have the widest
>potential circulation. Here on ParaNet would be good too, if Mike's willing.
>  Otherwise......  Maybe they could just appoint (and pay, maybe) someone to
>participate in the various echos on behalf of the magazine.
>That'd be workable as long as that participation didn't get too commercial.
>  I just don't think there'd be enough participation to cover
>the costs of a pay service. Right now on issuesforum's ufo

Good thought, John, about ParaNet, if Mike is willing, as you say,
and also the participation idea is attractive to yours truly.  I'll
pass this along and see if there are any nibbles.  Sure would be
nice, wouldn't it!  Like a chocoholic being subsidized for testing
Valentine candy boxes! ;-)
        Of course, if their idea was that "callers" (for lack of a
better term at the moment) would be able to get answers to questions
about previously published or in-progress stories in the magazine,
then there'd be an inevitable delay while the "participant" (again
for lack of a better term -- the Omni rep online in the FidoNet or
ParaNet echoes) checked back with the main office and got the
answers to the questions, then relayed them to the network.  It'd be
more efficient if they could arrange it in-house, where they already
have access to all the materials, seems to me... but, on second
thought, there'd still be some delay time for research anyway,
wouldn't there, so maybe it wouldn't make that much difference after
all.  I like this idea better and better!
        About the pay service participation, I was surprised to find
when I went back to CIS this week after an absence and checked the
UFO portion of IssuesForum that there were so few messages.  Where'd
everybody go?  It was pretty lively there for a while -- to the
point that responding to messages was costing me a bunch but was
also stretching the old brain cells into new and more flexible
shapes -- but now there are tumbleweeds blowing down the main
street and ghosts peeking out of the windows.  Strange!  Is this a
holiday-related thing, do you think, where people get busy over the
holiday season and drop out for a while but come back later?  If so,
maybe they'll return; if not, could be serious.
        Have you been doing this -- the UFO boards -- long enough to
note any kind of seasonal variation in participation?  That could
make a difference to OMNI's scheduling plans, if they should go
ahead with this idea.  You wouldn't want to launch when nobody's
home!
                                        ==Peggy==
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Re: Omni Comments
Date: 29 Nov 91 19:09:00 GMT

>Yeah...but the trouble with simply saying that a 'Professor Whackenhut
>disbelieves the report' is simply that his statement is judged on the
>merits of his title or experience with *like* phenomena.  Such an offset
>offers little if any conter-evidence, and the reader is left feeling
>cheated because there was NO support for any debunking.  One would
>simply get a "We see these nuts cases all day long" white-wash.

You make a good point about the format of the offset quote (in fact,
you make many good points but I won't address each as time is short
today), and the judging Prof. Wackenhut's comments on his
title or experience with similar topics.  I don't know how other
writers do it, but I try to get a quote which will give a specific
reason for disbelief, something like (example only, not literally:)
        "I found Paran Ormal's conclusions to be completely
        unsubstantiated because he says that these objects are
        linked to the time of King Solomon by their Semitic alphabet
        when in fact that alphabet he uses in his example was not
        used by those people at that time..."
Or
        "The claim that Bigfoot was sighted and shot north of the
        Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco shortly after World War
        II is completely incredible because the military unit that
        supposedly was involved in the shooting was not stationed
        there at that time.
You get the idea...
        But, there are other considerations editors must take into
account...space available, importance of the response relative to
the punchiest parts of the story, and a bunch of other complicated
stuff that separates the editors from us lowly writers <grin> so
maybe the writer originally included something that got cut in the
process of putting the thing into print.
        If they *could* go to that column idea we talked about, with
a point-by-point critique of one story per issue, then at least one
Prof Wackenhut would have his say.  (Imagine how disappointed the
Wackenhuts of the world must be, too, when they've given a really
good and incisive rebuttal only to see it end up on the cutting room
floor.)
        I'll relay your latest comments, too.  They're very good.
        Thanks!
                                        ==Peggy==
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: To Mike Corbin
Date: 30 Nov 91 04:45:00 GMT


 > I have tried off and on to send you computer mail for
 > a couple months and they don't get there apparently.
 > Could you mail me your US mail address and I'll send
 > you a letter?

You can also send me e-mail to [e-mail], or you can write me at:

P.O. Box 172
Wheat Ridge, CO  80034-0172

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Gulg Breeze Gifs.
Date: 30 Nov 91 04:46:00 GMT


 > From: Robert Trevelyan <[e-mail]>

 >         Thanks for the offer but I am not sure if/how I could
 >         request the files from here as we only have a pickup/dropoff
 >         mail service. Can you explain to how I would go about
 >         requesting theses files. Thanks again for the offer.

If you can uudecode them, I will netmail them to you Robert.

Let me know.

Mike

P.S.  Send your reply to me at [e-mail].

--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to********
                      'infopara' at the following address:

UUCP  {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom!infopara
DOMAIN  [e-mail]

 For administrative requests (subscriptions, back issues) send to:

UUCP            {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom!infopara-request
DOMAIN          [e-mail]
 To obtain back issues by anonymous ftp, connect to:

DOMAIN          ftp.uiowa.edu (directory /archives/paranet)

Mail to private Paranet/Fidonet addresses from the newsletters:
DOMAIN  [e-mail]
UUCP  scicom!paranet.org!firstname.lastname

******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************

                Info-ParaNet Newsletters   Volume I  Number 507

                           Tuesday, December 3rd 1991

Today's Topics:

                             Paranet Nodes In The Uk
                                  Welcome back!
                               Newspaper articles
                             UFORA moving to Cairns
                                Gulg Breeze Gifs.
                          Re: RAF BENTWATERS/WOODBRIDGE
                                    Implants
                                   Belgian UFO
                                 Re: Bill Cooper
                                  Omni Comments
                                     Author
                                   Omni ONLINE
                          Re: RAF BENTWATERS/WOODBRIDGE
                                 Revision/Update
                                 Re: Bill Cooper
                                   Omni ONLINE
                             Paranet Nodes in the UK
                                   Belgian UFO
                                Gulg Breeze Gifs.
                                 Mystery object
                                TRIANGULAR UFO'S
                                     Author
                                    Implants
                                   Omni Online
                                   Omni Online

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Paranet Nodes In The Uk
Date: 30 Nov 91 04:48:00 GMT


 > From: Robert Trevelyan <[e-mail]>
 >
 >
 > Hi,
 >         Can anyone tell me if there is any Paranet nodes in
 >         the UK either currently or planned. If there is not any
 >         could someone explain how one would go about becoming a
 >         node and how someone could get a private Paranet/Fidonet
 >         mail address. I would like to be able to access this service
 >         from home in the future (not immediate future).
 >         Keep up the excellent service and appologies for my ignorance
 >         of it.

There is email on its way to you via Internet.

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Welcome back!
Date: 29 Nov 91 03:40:37 GMT

Hi Vlad,

Got your message, and welcome back!  Today is Thanksgiving Day and if you
celebrate the same, hope you have had a g'day!!

<:-)
Linda

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Newspaper articles
Date: 29 Nov 91 03:48:44 GMT

Hello Robert,

Yes, I did receive your newspaper articles, and thank you so much!  They were,
of course, in much better detail than anything we have in the U.S.  I was quite
discouraged by the detail that Dave & Doug furnished on how they made their
elaborate circles.  It really makes ufologers looks bad.

I guess we need to wait and see what develops in Australia, and next summer in
England.  Personally, I don't think we've seen the last of this situation. By
the way, a recent National Geographic special on crop circles, IMHO, made fun
of it all, and was not a bit serious.  <sigh>

Keep us posted on the latest,

Linda

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: UFORA moving to Cairns
Date: 29 Nov 91 06:58:43 GMT

In a message to Jim Speiser <27 Nov 91 23:52> Vladimir Godic wrote:

 >> How much you wanna bet THE LANDING takes place in Sydney on
 >> November 10th, and we won't be able to get any info out of you
 >> guys for two weeks....
 >>
 >> Jim

 VG> Jim,
 VG> Sorry to disappoint you but no UFO landing took place in Sydney.
 VG> As a matter of fact my wife and I were looking for UFOs during
 VG> our 5 day (3800km) trip from Adelaide to Cairns. Unfortunately we
 VG> did not see anything.
 VG> It's good to be back on Paranet.
 VG> Vlad


Good to have you back! Things have been slow in your absence, except for a
highly skeptical report on the Belgium case (which itself must be viewed with
skepticism...)

Jim

--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Gulg Breeze Gifs.
Date: 29 Nov 91 07:53:36 GMT

In a message to All <28 Nov 91 12:01> ncar!doc.imperial.ac.uk!a wrote:


 nc> Jim,
 nc>        Thanks for the offer but I am not sure if/how I could
 nc>        request the files from here as we only have a pickup/dropoff
 nc>        mail service. Can you explain to how I would go about
 nc>        requesting theses files. Thanks again for the offer.

As Popeye would say, "Garshk!" I frankly dunno how its done over the Internet,
or if it CAN be done. There is the direct method, which would involve an
overseas call to my system at 602-994-9882. Other than that, you'll have to
ask an Internet Maven.

Jim


--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (James Hudnall)
Subject: Re: RAF BENTWATERS/WOODBRIDGE
Date: 30 Nov 91 04:21:00 GMT

Thanks. I'll get a text fil done soon, I hope. The only problem is I'm
a writer with deadlines, so it may take awhile. It'll be worth the
wait, though. I get to it A.S.A.P. I've had friends on other boards
mention they would like to read it, too.

--
James Hudnall - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Implants
Date: 29 Nov 91 03:01:00 GMT

Hi Peggy, thanks for your last message. I'd be delighted to receive a
copy tape of the broadcast which included materila on implants, in
return for which I'll mail over a copy of the Richard Price article
plus a couple of other items. My postal address is PO Box 302, Modbury
north, South Australia 5092, Australia. May I have a mailing address
for yourself please?

--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Hicks)
Subject: Belgian UFO
Date: 30 Nov 91 06:25:01 GMT


 > Furthermore, this case does not fit the pattern of spurious sightings of
 > Venus or aircraft. Usually such sightings are isolated, and not part of
 > a wave. I find it hard to believe that so many thousands of people
 > misinterpreted conventional aircraft for low-flying triangular platforms
 > with bright white lights.

  On that note, I believe that people who live in areas of high-density air
traffic become very familiar with aircraft lights and can easily pick out
anything out of the ordinary.
  I suppose a bright Venus could account for some, but geez.....most?

                                           jbh

--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Kay Mclaughlin)
Subject: Re: Bill Cooper
Date: 27 Nov 91 21:26:00 GMT


 JS> I thought I'd never mention this name again, but I thought y'all
 JS> might be interested to know...

 Never say Never

 JS> Bill Cooper was just on a radio show here in Phoenix, talking on the
 JS> topic of the Kennedy Assassination. Yes, he's still touting the "Greer
 JS> Shot Kennedy" theory. Even more interestingly, though, he is now
 JS> backpedaling on the aliens bit, saying that its all a ruse by the
 JS> government to get us to unite behind the New World Order.

 Perhaps Kennedy is a better money maker, believed by more folks willing
 to part with $$$$. With the "alien bit", it's more work trying to
 convince folks.

 JS> Someone called in and said that he'd read many articles by Cooper
 JS> claiming that UFOs were real and that the government was in cahoots
 JS> with the aliens, and Cooper asked, "Did you see those articles on a
 JS> computer BBS?" He said "yes." Cooper then said, "Those weren't written
 JS> by me. Someone wrote a bunch of hogwash articles using my name and
 JS> uploaded them to a bunch of computer bulletin board systems."

Oh no, maybe he's been cloned?

 JS> Interestingly, the caller told Cooper, "By the way, Vicki Cooper and
 JS> Lars Hanson said `Hi', and to tell you that you are still the biggest
 JS> liar in the world."
 JS> Awwrriiiighht! Anyone out there wanna claim credit for that call?

ROFL

Thanks for the update,
Kay

--
Kay Mclaughlin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Omni Comments
Date: 30 Nov 91 23:22:43 GMT

In a message to Peggy Noonan <26 Nov 91 16:32> Steve Rose wrote:


 > PN> In fact, the question you raised is something people here have
 > PN> suggested be added to OMNI -- a feature in which at least one story
 > PN> would be taken apart by a skeptic, point by point.

 SR> Alright!  Now there's some meat on dem bones.  :)

How bout taking it one step further, and allowing the claimants to review the
debunking, point by point, perhaps going back and forth until it boils down to
a fundamental difference in philosophy (which it invariably does - usually
objectivist vs. solipsist)?

Jim


--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Author
Date: 30 Nov 91 23:25:11 GMT

In a message to Don Ecker <27 Nov 91 08:00> Jim Greenen wrote:

 JG> Don; saw your show, as usual you did a good job. Maybe a bit on
 JG> the conservative side but all and all a jolly good show. I
 JG> thoyght Keith was out in left field and wrote the book to make a
 JG> buck.

Something that Ed Walters was SURELY not thinking of at all....


<grin> There I go again, sorry, Jim. Forget I said it...

Jim


--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Omni ONLINE
Date: 30 Nov 91 23:30:03 GMT

In a message to John Hicks <29 Nov 91 11:45> Peggy Noonan wrote:

 >>  I just suggested Fido since it would have the widest
 >>potential circulation. Here on ParaNet would be good too, if
 >>Mike's willing.
 >>  Otherwise......
 >>  Maybe they could just appoint (and pay, maybe) someone to
 >>participate in the various echos on behalf of the magazine.
 >>That'd be workable as long as that participation didn't get too
 >>commercial.
 >>  I just don't think there'd be enough participation to cover
 >>the costs of a pay service. Right now on issuesforum's ufo
 PN>
 PN> Good thought, John, about ParaNet, if Mike is willing, as you
 PN> say, and also the participation idea is attractive to yours
 PN> truly.  I'll pass this along and see if there are any nibbles.
 PN> Sure would be nice, wouldn't it!  Like a chocoholic being
 PN> subsidized for testing Valentine candy boxes! ;-)

How's about a mention of ParaNet somewhere in the AntiMatter column? I recall
that there was a brief story done on Dale Goudie's old CUFON system, but that
system went over like an 1890's airship. It may be time to update OMNI's
readers on the state of online ufology.

Jim

--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: RAF BENTWATERS/WOODBRIDGE
Date: 1 Dec 91 06:13:58 GMT

Hi,

  My husband has just made an update to his original "report."  I'm going to
send it to Mike Corbin.  Whether or not hubby will respond to posts remain to
be seen.  I'm workin' on him.  So be patient, and it will be out soon, I'm sure.

Regards,

Linda

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Revision/Update
Date: 1 Dec 91 06:26:48 GMT

Hello Mike,

To my surprise, Loren revised his paper on Bentwaters without a fuss, and I'll
send it out Monday.  (Will miracles never cease??)

Best,

Linda

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: cwns1.INS.CWRU.Edu!ak842
Subject: Re: Bill Cooper
Date: 2 Dec 91 04:38:49 GMT

From: [e-mail] (Douglas Dever)


 Geez, hasn't he stolen enough publicity for a lifetime?
It seems that he keeps popping back up, but it sounds like he might
be beginning to contradict himself... too bad i missed the show...
add my name to the list of people who wish they could claim credit to
the phone call!

--
_ Douglas A. Dever _  If Voting Changed Anything They'd Make It Illegal!
    'So it goes' -- Kurt Vonnegut       [e-mail]
    'Roll the Bones' -- Rush            [e-mail]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Hicks)
Subject: Omni ONLINE
Date: 1 Dec 91 09:16:00 GMT


 >         About the pay service participation, I was surprised to find
 > when I went back to CIS this week after an absence and checked the UFO
 > portion of IssuesForum that there were so few messages.  Where'd
 > everybody go?  It was pretty lively there for a while -- to the point
 > that responding to messages was costing me a bunch

  I check in every now and then, but I think the cost got to all of us. After
all, many of us (same people) can talk about the same stuff here and in various
other echos without subsidizing CI$.

 >         Have you been doing this -- the UFO boards -- long enough to
 > note any kind of seasonal variation in participation?

  I haven't really noticed any variation, with the exception of Spring Break
and summertime when some kids cause trouble. They don't very often get past
the local level, though.

                                           jbh

--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Hicks)
Subject: Paranet Nodes in the UK
Date: 1 Dec 91 09:17:01 GMT


  I can provide Robert an HST link, if that would help.

                                           jbh

--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Greenen)
Subject: Belgian UFO
Date: 1 Dec 91 15:59:00 GMT


 * Replying to a message originally to Michael Corbin
 JH>  > The following report has been provided by Jean Manfroid of the Liege
 JH>
 JH>   *Very* interesting. Note that the "object" filmed over
 JH> Mexico City during last summer's eclipse that Wendelle
 JH> Stevens was so excited about also appears to have been
 JH> Venus.
 JH>
 JH>                                            jbh
 JH>
Not unless Venus made a detour between the moon and the earth. Must
see photo's in the UFO Journal. 73'S    ---JIM---
--
Jim Greenen - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Don Allen)
Subject: Gulg Breeze Gifs.
Date: 1 Dec 91 17:34:00 GMT


 * Replying to a message originally to ncar!doc.imperial.ac.uk!a

 JS> In a message to All <28 Nov 91 12:01>
 JS> ncar!doc.imperial.ac.uk!a wrote:
 JS>
 JS>
 JS>  nc> Jim,
 JS>  nc>        Thanks for the offer but I am not sure if/how I could
 JS>  nc>        request the files from here as we only have a pickup/dropoff
 JS>  nc>        mail service. Can you explain to how I would go about
 JS>  nc>        requesting theses files. Thanks again for the offer.
 JS>
 JS> As Popeye would say, "Garshk!" I frankly dunno how its done
 JS> over the Internet, or if it CAN be done. There is the
 JS> direct method, which would involve an overseas call to my
 JS> system at 602-994-9882. Other than that, you'll have to ask
 JS> an Internet Maven.

Jim,

How it's done over the Internet is to either FTP (File Transfer Protocol..
which is similar to FREQ'ing over BBS's) the requested files or to email
the files directly to the site.

I've tried at various times to mail Robert from my UUCP connection but
these mailers being the finicky critters that they are usually end up
bouncing the mail back.

Having posted over 40 GB files to the NET, I just completed posting one
of the 3 GB GIFS to alt.alien.visitors. This GIF was the one with the
GB Ed Walters craft.

To convert a GIF for posting on the Net requires that you must first
uuencode it from an 8 bit file format to a 7 bit ASCII text format so
it can be transmitted around the world intact in message format.

This is an example of this operation:

begin 644 realufo.gif
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etc....

The user can convert this back into it's original GIF format
by passing it through uudecode.

This is commonly how pictures are passed around on the Internet
in message/article format.

Hopefully, Robert will have spotted the GIF (I believe it was posted
in 3 parts) in a.a.v before the articles have expired at his site.

I'm about to uuencode more stuff for a.a.v though some will complain
that I shouldn't be posting GIFS to a non-GIF designated newsgroup :-)

REQUEST:
--------

Could you or some kind soul please post in the echo here the most current
ParaNet node list? The last one I posted to the Net was quite dated and
I rec'vd email of "Hey..this list is OLD!"

Thanks!

Don
[e-mail]

--
Don Allen - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Hicks)
Subject: Mystery object
Date: 2 Dec 91 08:02:00 GMT


 * Forwarded from "UFINET"
 * Originally by John Hicks
 * Originally to all
 * Originally dated 2 Dec 1991, 1:02

SPACE OBJECT IS AN ASTEROID

  TUCSON, Ariz.- (wire service) A small object discovered last month hurtling
through space turned out to be a tiny asteroid. The rock, 30 feet in diameter,
is one of the smallest asteroids detected, University of Arizona planetary
scientist Tom Gehrels said Friday.

  The object, known as 1991VG, was discovered November 6. Because of its
circular orbit, astronomers thought it might be a manmade object, perhaps an
upper stage from one of the rockets that sent Apollo spacecraft to the moon.

  Gehrels said astronomers decided the object was an asteroid after observing
its brightness. The object will pass within 290,000 miles of Earth on December
5.

--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Hicks)
Subject: TRIANGULAR UFO'S
Date: 2 Dec 91 08:09:01 GMT


 * Forwarded from "UFO"
 * Originally by John Gribble
 * Originally to All
 * Originally dated 28 Nov 1991, 21:56

I have been asked by Stan Gordon of the Pennsylvania association for the study
of the unexplained to inform all who might be interested that there has been in
the past few months a dramatic increase in the reported sightings of triangular
shaped ufo's the most recent being a large triangular ufo reported in Cambria
county Pennsylvania. Mr Gordon would like to hear from anyone who has knowledge
of this type of sighting occurring any where. He can be reached at 6 Oak hill
av. Greensburgh Pa. 15601 or he can be reached at the Pennsylvania UFO hotline
412-838-7768.
I don't know if this board is connected to PARANET but I do know that some of
you use paranet so if someone could relay this message to that board I
would greatly appreciate it.
                                      Thank you,
                                       John Gribble

--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Don Ecker)
Subject: Author
Date: 1 Dec 91 15:11:00 GMT

Jim Greenen said;

 >  Don; saw your show, as usual you did a good job.

Thanks Jim.

 > Maybe a bit on the
 > conservative side but all and all a jolly good show.

Well I guess maybe that is just the kind of guy I am....<G>

 >    You will have a letter forth coming that you might be interested in.
 > It is not UFO related but deals in the subject we discussed a couple of
 > weeks ago on the phone about a certain individual and his claims. 73'S

Ok, will look for it. Not here as of yet.

Don

--
Don Ecker - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Implants
Date: 2 Dec 91 14:41:00 GMT

>implants, in return for which I'll mail over a copy of the
>Richard Price article plus a couple of other items. My postal
>Australia. May I have a mailing address for yourself please?

Okay, I'll make the copy for you today and get it into the mail
in the next day or two.  Thank you for the offer of the return
articles.  My business mailing address is:
        Professional Editing Services
        2050 Ingalls St.
        Edgewater, CO 80214-1155  USA
Thanks very much -- I'll look forward to hearing from you again.
BTW, I've had a chance now to listen to most of the tape and I must
say this fellow certainily is a strange one.
                        ==Peggy==
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Omni Online
Date: 2 Dec 91 14:50:00 GMT


>How's about a mention of ParaNet somewhere in the AntiMatter
>column? I recall that there was a brief story done on Dale
>Goudie's old CUFON system, but that system went over like an
>1890's airship. It may be time to update OMNI's readers on the
>state of online ufology.
Hi Jim,
        I hope to get that included and we're also working on trying
to get a story okayed which will cover all the UFO BBS -- something
I don't think has been done yet, and that would include ParaNet, of
course.  I still have to finalize the proposal but so far
everybody's willing to cooperate.  CUFON is back online, now -- did
you know about that?  And Jim Klotz has sent a packet to OMNI hoping
to get either a re-mention in that section of the magazine or else
be included in the UFO BBS piece (assuming they okay it).  Meantime,
Mike Corbin and I will be putting together something about MICAP
which should include mention of ParaNet, too.
        Of course, you never know when you send something in to the
publishers how it will turn out after editing...lots of "great
stuff" winds up on the "cutting room floor" so to speak, because the
editing staff has to choose what works best for them, not
necessarily what makes the writer or interviewees happy, so it's not
possible to guarantee anything.  All I can do is give it a good shot
and a cover letter mention for emphasis and hope for the best.
        Thanks for the suggestion.  If you have any ideas on which
BBS should be included in a UFO BBS article, I'd love to hear from
you on that too, okay?
                                                ==Peggy==
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Omni Online
Date: 2 Dec 91 15:00:00 GMT

>  I check in every now and then, but I think the cost got to
>all of us. After all, many of us (same people) can talk about
>the same stuff here and in various other echos without
>subsidizing CI$.


Right, John.  I posted a message on Issues and got quite a few
replies, some of which were from people who are also on FidoNet or
ParaNet so it doesn't make sense for them to spend where they can
access a good messaging base without the fees -- same people, same
topics (with only a few exceptions).  It's so easy to spend a LOT of
time on the local BBS just going over mail, let alone getting into
files and reading ALL the messages that would interest you, that
cost really becomes a very important factor.  (None of this should
imply that I'd be dropping out of Compuserve, of course, because the
research facilities are wonderful and have saved my bacon many
times, but the chatting online gets mighty expen$sive.)
        About the seasonal variations, I am glad to hear that it's
not that great other than the Spring Break kids stuff (maybe that's
more prevalent in Florida, home of the King of Spring Breaks?) and
when I went back to CIS this week, I did find more messages on the
forum but they still tend to be shorter and fewer in number than
they were at the time my bills got too high to handle.
        BTW, Jim Speiser mentioned that I should try to include
ParaNet in an OMNI story and I intend to do that (whether they'll
publish that part or not is another matter entirely), and I'm also
working on a proposal for the mag for an article about the UFO BBS,
something I don't think has been done -- at least not for a long
time.  I'd like to make up a list which would include the important
ones and access means (like getting on your local board to access
FidoNet, etc.)  If you think of something I should include, I'd
appreciate it if you'd give me a nudge in the right direction.
        You always have such good ideas.
        Thanks, again, John.
                                                ==Peggy==
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to********
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******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************

                Info-ParaNet Newsletters   Volume I  Number 508

                          Thursday, December 5th 1991

Today's Topics:

                                Re: that Dutch(?)
                                Popular Mechanics
                                 Mystery Object
                             Mystery Object distance
                              Optical SETI summary
                                 Sphinx debated
                                  Estonia news?
                       300,000 yrs ago, humans in Americas
                          publication -- Kindred Spirit
                         Fido/Para net boards in the UK
                                 Re: Belgian UFO
                                   Belgian UFO
                                     Author
                                 The UFO Report
                         An Interesting Development ...
                             UFORA moving to Cairns
                                Schoch's Abstract
                              Re: The 'Big Picture'


--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: usl.edu!pgf9240
Subject: Re: that Dutch(?)
Date: 3 Dec 91 04:35:49 GMT

From: [e-mail] (Fraering Philip G)


Looked like German to me... I don't have time to translate it now...

Phil





--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Burke)
Subject: Popular Mechanics
Date: 3 Dec 91 08:22:00 GMT

A while back, I picked up the December '91 issue of _Popular
Mechanics_ because its cover story on Top Secret military
aircraft caught my eye.

Since then I've seen the article mentioned a couple of times here
on ParaNet, although I was surprised at the lack of interest
generated by those postings.

The real value of an article such as this is that it provides
"manistream" support for the contention that "UFOs are real".
Specifically, one of the major hypotheses of ufology is getting
some acknowledgment as being correct:  the "Secret Military
Aircraft" hypothesis.  In any future televised debate with Phil
Klass, it should be emphasized that his beloved former employer,
_Aviation Week & Space Technology_ has acknowledged the reality
of ufology's "Secret Military Aircraft" hypothesis, beginning
with their 10/1/90 issue.  Although no credit has been given to
ufology for advancing our knowledge about these "state of the
art" vehicles, the popular curiosity about unidentified flying
objects is what led to the identification of these vehicles.
Both _Popular Mechanics_ and _Aviation Week_ credited "anecdotal
reports" as the major source of information on the appearance and
performance characteristics of these craft.  I was particularly
amused by this paragraph from the _Popular Mechanics_ article:

>   The vehicles in such anecdotes fall into three categories.
> First, observers have reported several different triangular
> aircraft with wingspans ranging from roughly 60 to 160 ft.
> Second, witnesses have described a high-speed, high-altitude
> vehicle, seen only as a yellow or orange light with a related
> pulsing engine roar.  Finally, a black, silent,
> boomerang-shaped vehicle that stretches between 600 and 800 ft.
> across and performs circus-pony maneuvers at airspeeds as low
> as 20 knots.  Asked to comment, Air Force Systems Command
> referred the inquiry to a Pentagon-based public affairs
> officer, Capt. Betsy Freeman, who issued this statement:  "We
> have no aircraft matching these descriptions."
               (reprinted without permission)

Obviously, this issue is a *must* for anyone interested in
ufology and more particularly for "field investigators" since the
article has some fine illustrations (including one which
appeared in _Aviation Week_).  As "boomerang" sightings continue
we are going to have a more difficult time trying to rule out
"terrestrial origin".

As an aside, I am rather suspicious about the way in which UFO
design has parallelled earthly design trends.  The older UFO
photographs and sketches (such as the McMinnville, Oregon UFO)
have an almost "art deco" look.  More recent UFOs, as
photographed in the Hudson Valley area and in Belgium have a more
"Stealth"-y, Bauhaus type of look that is so popular nowdays.
                                  --  John

--
John Burke - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: ASTRO.dnet.ge.com!CARR
Subject: Mystery Object
Date: 3 Dec 91 15:11:26 GMT

From: Paul Carr <[e-mail]>

1991 VG, the so called 'mystery object' will make its closest approach to earth
on the morning of 5 December (thursday).  It will not be visible to the naked
eye, as it is very small - estimated to be about 30 meters.




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: ASTRO.dnet.ge.com!CARR
Subject: Mystery Object distance
Date: 3 Dec 91 15:11:38 GMT

From: Paul Carr <[e-mail]>

I forgot to mention that the distance of closest approach is 288,000 miles -
alttle further than the moon.  The object is predicted to pass south of
the Earth - almost directly below Antarctica.




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: ASTRO.dnet.ge.com!CARR
Subject: Optical SETI summary
Date: 3 Dec 91 16:33:07 GMT

From: Paul Carr <[e-mail]>

I have a copy of Stuart Kingsley's summary of his paper on optical
SETI.  If anyone's interested, mail me and I'll send you a copy.
Send requests to:

[e-mail]





--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: wam.umd.edu!infinity
Subject: Sphinx debated
Date: 4 Dec 91 00:16:48 GMT

From: David Elmore Coleman <[e-mail]>


One of my relatives-in-law, Peter Woods, is Assistant Provost at
Boston University. He says that the Spinx's age is under heated
debate. Some professors have been defending Schoch's work, and others
have been disputing it. Thanks, whoever it was, for posting on the
1992 Science..(etc).. conference where there will be debate.

I have just written Dr. Schoch and provided him my email address, and
may also write Anthony West, the egyptologist whose claims Schoch was
investigating.

I meant to copy Schoch's Abstract from the San Diego conference but
I left the photocopy at home, so I will have to do it tomorrow if I
can.


     More galactic thoughts from:
Amicitia Subjugat Omnia    Hweohthte... (Hwe-oath-T)
   ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
David E. Coleman    [e-mail]
8125 48th Ave, Apt. 612
College Park, MD 20740    1-(301)-474-7424
   ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: wam.umd.edu!infinity
Subject: Estonia news?
Date: 4 Dec 91 00:17:14 GMT

From: David Elmore Coleman <[e-mail]>


Someone posted a Jakarta clipping from the UFO newsclipping service, which
reported a crashed disc under study by Soviet scientist. Anyone know anything
else on this yet? It certainly would be big news. Marina Popovich might
be aware of this.

      More galactic thoughts from:
Amicitia Subjugat Omnia    Hweohthte... (Hwe-oath-T)
   ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
David E. Coleman    [e-mail]
8125 48th Ave, Apt. 612
College Park, MD 20740    1-(301)-474-7424
   ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Unknowingly, he picked up a whirly blue throwstone with strange hieroglyphics
on the opposite side he didn't see, and he tossed it into the sunlit stream;
A note said he had opened a gate to some place indescribable.
   ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: wam.umd.edu!infinity
Subject: 300,000 yrs ago, humans in Americas
Date: 4 Dec 91 00:17:28 GMT

From: David Elmore Coleman <[e-mail]>


In July or August 1989 a French anthropological or archaeological journal
published or reviewed a study by a Brazilian archaeologist/anthropologist
concerning remains in northern Brazil dated by thermoluminescence to
be 300,000 years old. This came on the heels of a discovery in the Mojave
Desert, which was at the time quite controversial, concerning 270,000 year
old evidence of human habitation. I have been unable to find the journal,
as I got my information from a news periodical I should have photocopied.
It was a world news periodical I came across when opening mail at
McKelding Library in Dec'89/Jan'90. However, recently I searched through
the 1990 art and archaeology abstracts (a chance find, would you believe it?)
and found an abstract on the technique of thermoluminescent dating, by
Dr. Elisabeth Mateus and a host of others, all at the University of
Sao Paulo. The name Dr. Elisabeth Mateus rang a bell and I remembered that
the archaeologist/anthropologist whose work I was looking for was a woman
from the University of Sao Paulo. An approximate address was given as
Univ. Sao Paulo Inst. Fis. and no abbreviation key was evident anywhere in
the book. But, I can get zip information (or whatever it is in Brazil) for
the Sao Paulo, Brazil address, hopefully from the U of Maryland library.
I wrote a letter today requesting information on the finds and subsequent
debates, discussions and any followup studies, which I will send once I
get the zip. Hopefully she can get me info on both the northern Brazil and
Mojave finds.

 What is interesting is that California and northern Brazil are
some of the few parts of Lemuria and Atlantis (reputedly) which exist
above water today. The Peruvian Andes and coastal Carolinas are the only
other New World parts, so it is interesting that so far, assuming thee
finds are legitimate, all two finds predating the Asian-American Bering
Strait migrations are at former portions of alleged lost continents.
Hmmm...
      More galactic thoughts from:
Amicitia Subjugat Omnia    Hweohthte... (Hwe-oath-T)
   ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
David E. Coleman    [e-mail]
8125 48th Ave, Apt. 612
College Park, MD 20740    1-(301)-474-7424
   ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Unknowingly, he picked up a whirly blue throwstone with strange hieroglyphics
on the opposite side he didn't see, and he tossed it into the sunlit stream;
A note said he had opened a gate to some place indescribable.
   ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: wam.umd.edu!infinity
Subject: publication -- Kindred Spirit
Date: 4 Dec 91 00:18:39 GMT

From: David Elmore Coleman <[e-mail]>


I have asked this before, but does anyone know how I might find
the magazine/periodical 'Kindred Spirit'? Ralph Noyes or some other
concerned party of the crop circle subject referenced this periodical
several times in a MUFON article.

      More galactic thoughts from:
Amicitia Subjugat Omnia    Hweohthte... (Hwe-oath-T)
   ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
David E. Coleman    [e-mail]
8125 48th Ave, Apt. 612
College Park, MD 20740    1-(301)-474-7424
   ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Unknowingly, he picked up a whirly blue throwstone with strange hieroglyphics
on the opposite side he didn't see, and he tossed it into the sunlit stream;
A note said he had opened a gate to some place indescribable.
   ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: mrc-crc.ac.uk!sgamble
Subject: Fido/Para net boards in the UK
Date: 4 Dec 91 03:33:09 GMT

From: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)


In a message on 29th November, Robert Travelyan asks about boards in
the UK.

BUFORA has been giving consideration to establishing a UFO board in
the UK. There is no immediate launch planned but it is really a case
of when rather than if we do it.

We would hope to come to some arrangement with Paranet (and possibly
other boards) where we would become a local echo.

Steve.




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Kay Mclaughlin)
Subject: Re: Belgian UFO
Date: 30 Nov 91 18:23:00 GMT


 MC> area. The title is "The UFO wave over Belgium" (in French), and
 MC> it is now a top selling book here. The preface is by the French
 MC> CNRS scientist Petit, well-known for the fact that his scientific
 MC> inspiration is due to aliens (coming from planet UMMO, 15 light
 MC> years from us, as you should know). Coincidentally, Dr Petit and
 MC> others are publishing at the same time books on the UMMITs.

UMMO? I did read that correctly, did I not? It says UMMO, right.
Am I in a time warp, or what? I HAD NO IDEA that this group was sill
around. I remember reading about this in the 70's.

OK, I dug through my library, there is a chapter about them in "The
Invisible College" by Jacques Vallee (1976, EP Dutton).

Can anyone bring us up to date on their activities?

Regards,
Kay

--
Kay Mclaughlin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Hicks)
Subject: Belgian UFO
Date: 3 Dec 91 15:20:00 GMT


 > OK, I dug through my library, there is a chapter about them in "The
 > Invisible College" by Jacques Vallee (1976, EP Dutton).

  There's a lot on them in Vallee's new _Revelations_.

                                           jbh

--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Greenen)
Subject: Author
Date: 3 Dec 91 21:01:00 GMT


 JS> In a message to Don Ecker <27 Nov 91 08:00> Jim Greenen
 JS> wrote:
 JS>
 JS>  JG> Don; saw your show, as usual you did a good job. Maybe a bit on
 JS>  JG> the conservative side but all and all a jolly good show. I
 JS>  JG> thoyght Keith was out in left field and wrote the book to make a
 JS>  JG> buck.
 JS>
 JS> Something that Ed Walters was SURELY not thinking of at
 JS> all....
 JS>
 JS>
 JS> <grin> There I go again, sorry, Jim. Forget I said it...
 JS>
 JS> Jim
 JS>
 JS>
 JS> ---
 JS>  * Origin: XRS/REMOTRON/PARANETsm/SCOTTSDALE, AZ (Quick
 JS> 9:1010/100.666)
SURELY----You don't think Ed would have wrote the book for free.
Regardless if the GB is true or false, would you donate your time
and energy to write a book if something on the order of GB happen to
you? I wouldn't, infact if I had what happen to me that Ed claims to
have happen to him, I wouldn't settle for $200,000.
   Look how much Whitley got for his book and it was the most
boring book that I have read.
   There I go again, sorry, Jim. ---Grin---
--
Jim Greenen - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: The UFO Report
Date: 1 Dec 91 22:51:00 GMT

The following clipping comes from the Adelaide "Sunday Mail" 17/11/91.

"Henry Winkler is convinced there are other beings inm outer space-and he's not
afraid to say so. There's a good reason for the former Fonz's sudden
outspokeness. He's just served as co-executive producer of The UFO Report which
will air on US TV. And he reckons the program will prove his point. "We have
reports from people all over the world," he says."

--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: An Interesting Development ...
Date: 5 Dec 91 07:14:00 GMT


 > I predict that this person will either a) never come forward, b)
 > will come forward with an alias, or c) will come forward with
 > his real name, but will be able to provide nothing in the way of
 > evidence, either for his claims or his background.

Jim,
I agree with you on this one. I think we've heard more than enough
about "premier UFO researcher" Wendelle Stevens.

Vlad

--
Vladimir Godic - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: UFORA moving to Cairns
Date: 5 Dec 91 07:45:00 GMT


 > Good to have you back! Things have been slow in your absence,
 > except for a highly skeptical report on the Belgium case (which
 > itself must be viewed with skepticism...)

Jim,

Yes IT'S good to be back with you guys. Re the Belgium case, I just
read the report on Paranet. Makes you wonder why suddenly such a
contradictory report.  There's definitely something going on.
Hopefully we can find out the truth behind it.

Vlad

--
Vladimir Godic - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: wam.umd.edu!infinity
Subject: Schoch's Abstract
Date: 4 Dec 91 20:33:49 GMT

From: David Elmore Coleman <[e-mail]>


Now, we can get it first hand...

The following is the Sphinx abstract as it appeared in the preview
bulletin of the annual meeting of the Geological Society of America
in San Diego:

Geological Society of America[,] Abstracts with Programs,
 23:5, 1991 Annual Meeting
page A253 under section 'Session 101 Archaeological Geology'
Number of abstract: 'No. 24866' (8 AM, 10-23-1991)


Booth 4 Schoch, Robert M.

REDATING THE GREAT SPHINX OF GIZA, EGYPT
 SCHOCH, Robert M., College of Basic Studies, Boston
  University, Boston, MA 02215; WEST, John Anthony,
  1517 Manorville Road, Saugerties, NY 12477
The Great Sphinx of Giza (Egypt) is generally attributed to the
Old Kingdom Pharaoh Chephren ([Khafre], ca. 2500 B.C.); on the
basis of a chain of circumstantial evidence, chiefly:  a statue
of Chephren found in an adjacent temple; questionable, and now
effaced, inscription on a later stela (ca. 1450 B.C.); an alleged
similarity between the face of the Sphinx and Chephren's face;
and the physical proximity of the Sphinx to Chephren's pyramid.
 Our geological work suggests that Chephren merely restored the
Sphinx.  The deep weathering to the body of the Sphinx is not
found on well-documented Old Kingdom structures in the immediate
vicinity which are cut from the same sequence of limestones.  The
temples adjacent to the Sphinx are built of limestone coreblocks
taken from the ditch quarried out to form the body of the Sphinx.
These coreblocks are faced with Aswan granite attributed to
Chephren, but the coreblocks were already deeply weathered when
the granite facing was originally applied.  The first of several
the ancient repair campaigns to the weathered body of the Sphinx was
done with typical Old Kingdom style masonry, but the core body of
the Sphinx was already deeply weathered when this earliest repair
work was carried out.  Low-energy seismic refraction data
collected in April of 1991, and reported here for the first time,
records up to 100% deeper weathering in the original floor of the
Sphinx enclosure as compared to weathering seen in the identical
limestones in an area presumably quarried during Chephren's time
in the rear of the Sphinx enclosure.  On the basis of this kind
of geological evidence we conclude that the Sphinx and its
adjacent temples predate Chephren's reign.
      More galactic thoughts from:
Amicitia Subjugat Omnia    Hweohthte... (Hwe-oath-T)
   ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
David E. Coleman    [e-mail]
8125 48th Ave, Apt. 612
College Park, MD 20740    1-(301)-474-7424
   ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Unknowingly, he picked up a whirly blue throwstone with strange hieroglyphics
on the opposite side he didn't see, and he tossed it into the sunlit stream;
A note said he had opened a gate to some place indescribable.
   ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: wam.umd.edu!infinity
Subject: Re: The 'Big Picture'
Date: 4 Dec 91 22:43:21 GMT

From: David Elmore Coleman <[e-mail]>


I originally sent the following, plus some further embellishment, to
Dan Smith's address, but I have a feeling I cannot send email to
FIDONET.ORG addresses from the Unix system here at the University
of Maryland, so I have edited my response to Dan and decided to
post it back to PARANET, where Dan's posting appeared.



Dan Smith posted a big file requesting everybody's Big Pictures.
I have some comments...

+ 10  to the power of 10 (10^10) is the magic number of immensities.
+ Molecules -> Cell -> brain -> people (souls) on Earth -> stars in the
+ Milky Way -->..........

+ The earth has ... provided basic training (boot camp style!) for some
+ 10^10 souls.

The 10^10 doesn't seem all that magical to me. Where did you get this
thought? Firstly, Cell should go to tissue, then to organ, then to
system then body, or just to body. I certainly believe more than 10^10
souls will have experienced the Earth before the day it dies, don't you?
I am sort of confused by this idea. I agree in the theme of recurrent
form, where, for example, supercooled helium acts like two separate
interpenetrating fluids, that are independent of one another, just like
I heard a talk yesterday by an astronomer who believes the core of the
Milky Way has two separate material continuums -- matter flowing one
direction with high angular momentum, and matter flowing counterclockwise
with low angular momentum. You often find the same form, meaning, shape
on different levels of observation, or on different scales. But as for
a hierarchy that leads to 10^10, I can't see that.

+ A devolution facilitated, perhaps, by greater degrees of memory loss
+ at birth, and by greater physical restrainst on our paranormal abilities.

I agree. Materialistic thought in itself can degrade the mechanisms that
would allow you to see back to the real truth, the spiritual. So, the
more materialist we get, the less paranormal faculties we can pass on to
future generations.

+ ... cosmological anthropic principle backed up with the holographic
+ metaphor to explain objective reality.

I like a lot of the ideas of the holographic metaphor, and I use aspects of
it in my own approach to New Age ontology (=eschatology???). But, especially
with stuff like implicate order and explicate order, and even more with
the holographic brain and Sheldrake's morphogenetic fields, I think one
is stabbing into an unexplored arena and is taking the Earth-based,
fragile approach that resembles the physics of the twentieth century.
Science constantly has to completely overhaul itself with things like
quantum theory and relativity, and now holographic order, and it never
seems to get where it needs to go. I would rather be very careful as to
what out of the holographic stuff I would support openly, because it is
likely to itself be revolutionized a number of times. There is likely to
be a lot missing, and you never know how *much* is missing. I prefer to
take physics for its language of math, force and geometry, and then add
the nearly wordless wisdom of the truth, which channelers can provide
(so long as you find good channel.) An example of this combination is
asking channelers what they think of the Missing Mass problem of the
universe. This example, however, turns out to be a bit confusing.

+ The strong anthropic principle of physics suggests a teleological
+ omega point where a final singularity of consciousness is the
+ quantum mechanical keystone for the world. This will be the true
+ big bang, against which the astrophysical big bang is only a
+ sort of mirror image.

This *will* be a big bang? What, do you anticipate some event to
happen in conjunction with the changes the Earth will go through
at the end of the century? I do not personaly think there will
be some singularity point thingy appearing.

I don't believe that England's megalithica and crop circles relate
at all to the 'final days' before the geological changes. Nor do
I believe that there were 'spiritual adepts who gave form to our
globe  through a grid system of sacred site and temples, with
Egypt as H.Q. perhaps.' Egypt's sites were erected by Atlanteans
fleeing their drowning land but they were erected for themselves,
not for the Earth as a whole.
 Perhaps the Mayan calendar has come to its end in the
coming transition, but as for any information beyond this I cannot
see any other of Arguelles interpretations being likely to be
exact or even necessarily right. The business of needing 144,000
souls to meditate on the Harmonic convergence is probably wrong,
in my opinion. Now, how I disagree on the role you attribute to
those crop circles.
 In a New Age view, crop circles have been caused by UFOs for
centuries, but a chance conglomeration of them (caused naturally by UFOs
in the process of changing density or dimension at low altitude) appeared
in one area over a short period of time, leading to the sluggish early
1980s research. The interest was noted by the transdimensionals, who have
begun experimenting with the patterns to try to make them more and
more complex, and more and more convincing to us. The Mandelbrot
set is such a good example, and the one at Barbury.
 With these two, there are positively only two explanations to
*initially* be considered -- hoax or 'paranormal intelligence' -- be the
latter extraterrestrial, devic, 'imaginal,' transdimensional, or other. The
Barbury formation seems to have shown radiation and cell wall pit
effects*(see note below), so 'paranormal intelligence,' is proven.** Likewise,
from the cell info plus the complexity, all military-device theories have
disappeared. The Mandelbrot, (this one?) was within reason inaccessible
to hoaxters. I have said 'paranormal intelligence' because if I said UFOs,
scientists and especially skeptics would instantly think I'm saying 'just
because it isn't A and it isn't B, it must be jeepers creepers UFOs!'
But, paranormal intelligence is certainly a wide enough term and it
includes most all possible causes of Barbury Castle aside from the
eliminated hoax, natural wind/plasma/anything-you-like, and military-object
theories.***

*   It matters not whether or not next summer's season investigations
 reveal a consistent sort of radiation behavior. The character
 of the radiation may vary depending on what forms are designed
 in the crop, or which 'intelligence' in particular (i.e alien
 one or alien two) is producing the formation/agriglyph.
**  I will explain in a second.
*** If a skeptic wishes to point out that 'paranormal intelligence'
 cannot be concluded on account of other possible theories we simply
 have not thought of, then he/she should realize that the only time
 scientific people say this is when they concede that the theory
 they are against is the 'presently favored theory,' just like the
 Big Bang is the 'presently favored theory' of cosmogony. By this, I
 mean the theory that should properly dominate any book on the subject.

As for SEWN, I hate the name, but I have myself espoused the same idea.
I plan for a Journal of Spiritual Science. If my book gets published,
it may be the first thing I do with royalties, aside from self-support.
My book actually is a 'Big Picture' but differs some from yours. Chapter 5
provides an ontology/cosmology that seems to prove the existence of
consciousness without having to resort to presumptions of holography,
implicate ordering, or the arrow of time. I actually prove it four
different ways, including a nothing-like-it-thought-of-before expansion
of the Anthropic Principle.
      More galactic thoughts from:
Amicitia Subjugat Omnia    Hweohthte... (Hwe-oath-T)
   ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
David E. Coleman    [e-mail]
8125 48th Ave, Apt. 612
College Park, MD 20740    1-(301)-474-7424
   ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Unknowingly, he picked up a whirly blue throwstone with strange hieroglyphics
on the opposite side he didn't see, and he tossed it into the sunlit stream;
A note said he had opened a gate to some place indescribable.
   ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----




********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to********
                      'infopara' at the following address:

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 For administrative requests (subscriptions, back issues) send to:

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 To obtain back issues by anonymous ftp, connect to:

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******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************

                Info-ParaNet Newsletters   Volume I  Number 509

                         Wednesday, December 11th 1991

Today's Topics:

                               Antigravity report
                         An Interesting Development ...
                                   Omni Online
                                 Revision/Update
                                Popular Mechanics
                               Re: Revision/Update
                                 EARLY AMERICANS
                                  Vegas Update
                               Q&A: John Burroughs
                                Re: Welcome back!
                               Re: Sphinx debated
                             UFORA moving to Cairns
                                   Omni Online
                                Popular Mechanics
                                Re: Omni Comments
                                 Re: Omni ONLINE
                                   Omni Online

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: wam.umd.edu!infinity
Subject: Antigravity report
Date: 5 Dec 91 00:38:03 GMT

From: David Elmore Coleman <[e-mail]>

I am wondering if anyone has any further information on the following
article from sci.physics or sci.astro last year. At the bottom a
reprint license is given with certain conditions, which are plainly
satisfied. Does anyone know how to contact the below organization,
given the little information that the organization below provides us
about how to contact it?
 I would like to mention the January 1990 Physics Review Letters A
article on Japanese scientists detecting mass loss in an electrical
gyroscope, which would imply perhaps an antigravity effect similar to
the gyroscopic antigravity effect purported below. Subsequent attempts
to reproduce the Japanese results have failed to acheive mass loss
results, although the experiments are designed somewhat differently.
If I recall correctly the difference involved the absence of electricity
in the follow-up experiments. This version of emacs unfortunately does
not allow me to precede lines with the traditional '> '. It used to
work, the ^[R command, until they switched to the idiotic NeXT server
which has screwed everybody.

----------------CUT------HERE------(if_you_want_to_of_course!)----------

+From mcnc!rinne Fri Aug 31 10:25:53 EDT 1990

An interesting article I just received on converting angular momentum
into linear momentum:


<><><><><><><>  T h e   V O G O N   N e w s   S e r v i c e  <><><><><><><><>

Edition : 2131            Thursday 16-Aug-1990            Circulation :  8288

VNS TECHNOLOGY WATCH:                        [Mike Taylor, VNS Correspondent]
=====================                        [Nashua, NH, USA               ]

 The man who defies gravity (and scientists, and skeptics, and Newton)

 Scotland to Sydney in 17 minutes ? Mars in 1= days ? It could happen
 thanks to the engineer Sandy Kidd's anti-gravity invention. Stuart
 Bathgate meets the man who British Aerospace are at last taking seriously.

 In 1903 the eminent American astronomer Simon Newcomb 'proved' on paper
 that heavier-than-air flight was a mathematical impossibility. Later that
 year the Wright brothers flew a Kitty Hawk.

 This gap between accepted scientific theory and reality is all too
 familiar to Dundee-based engineer Sandy Kidd. In a book published this
 week, Beyond 2001, Kidd provides a fascinating account of the process that
 eventually led to his producing a self-propelling giroscopic device - the
 Kidd machine - which, it is said, will revolutionize the laws of physics.
 In particular, Kidd's claims that Newton's Laws of Motion - sacrosanct for
 centuries - do not hold true for all instances.

 The machine's value though, is not just theoretical. Employing constant
 acceleration, it could shrink the solar system. Traveling to Mars would
 take a day and a half. Neptune - some seven years distant by rocket -
 would be reached in under a fortnight. Distances on Earth too, could
 become meaningless: instead of commuting by rail from, say Linlithgow to
 Edinburgh, a journey of 15 minutes, the owner of a Kidd machine could
 travel to work daily from Sydney - it would only take two minutes longer.

 All this is possible because of what is known as 'anti-Newtonian lift'.
 The classical physics dictum that 'every action must have an equal and
 opposite reaction' is observable in everyday life: you can only jump into
 the air by first pushing down on the ground; a rocket can escape our
 atmosphere only by producing a phenomenal thrust. Yet Kidd's machine does
 not require thrust to lift itself into the air. It is not lifted by
 aerodynamics. It does not depend on a hot-air cushion. Incredible as it
 sounds, Kidd's machine rises by losing weight.

 'Taking angular momentum and turning it into linear momentum without a
 reaction is just not allowed,' says Kidd - 'but that's what my machine
 does.'

 Needles to say, since that night in 1984 when he first got the machine to
 work in his own garage on the outskirts of Dundee, reaction from the
 academic world has been almost universally hostile. At first, the tactic
 was to laugh it off, with the claim that Kidd was spinning a yarn, not a
 giroscope. Then, various, increasingly desperate, attempts were made to
 prove that Kidd's device, did, after all, conform to the known laws of
 physics. None of them have been successful.

 Now, six years on, with the publication of 'Beyond 2001', and of an
 independent laboratory report on his machine, Kidd says that it is time
 for the academics to put up or shut up. 'They just want to think that if
 they jump up and down and tear their hair out I'll admit I'm a liar. A lot
 of them are like children when you've taken away their toys. It really
 gets to them. How can this unqualified nitwit make this machine?'

 It's a refreshingly honest self-description. Kidd realizes all too well
 the apparent uncertainty of the situation: an engineer with no academic
 training potters about in his shed, cannibalizing washing machines and
 lawn-mowers for spare parts until he stands accepted physics on its head.

 His interest in the entire project began, he says, in the air force.
 'There were a lot of times with nothing to do, times of boredom when you
 just lie in your pit and ask 'Who am I? Why am I here?' - all these
 two-steps-to-the-loony-bin questions. So you had to find some other
 interest. In my case, I honestly believed that man would find an
 alternative means of space travel.'

 It was the very fact that Kidd had not been 'brainwashed', as he puts it,
 by an academic training, that led him to ask the right questions in the
 first place. He also has an implicit awareness of the importance of the
 old saying, that the greatest wisdom of all is to appreciate the depth of
 your own ignorance.

 'When I hear scientists say we know all there is to know about the laws of
 physics it annoys me. How can they be so arrogant? We don't have a clue.
 Nobody's ever seen an electron. We don't know what gravity is. We don't
 know what inertia is. We only scratch the surface'

 Events have moved on apace since the successful lab tests with which the
 book concludes. Whereas previously Kidd had achieved the lifting effect
 without knowing how strong that effect could become, in the last six
 months, he says, 'I have proved it can be as good as you want it to be.
 It's only limited to the strength of the material.'

 Of equal importance is the fact that he now knows why the machine works -
 not only because it will help to make technical advances, but also
 because his wife Janet - 'I couldn't have done any of this without her' -
 is threatening to leave him if he doesn't stop constructing new, improved
 models. 'She said that years ago,' says Kidd, trying to laugh off his
 wife's assertion. 'Aye, but I mean it this time,' she replies.

 The Kidd machine works for reasons entirely different to those he first
 thought of, although clearly, with the enormous potential involved, he is
 not about to divulge those reasons to the general public. 'Let's just say
 that a physicist or mathematician who isn't brainwashed or hidebound will
 be able to look at the machine and accept that my explanation for why it
 works is correct.'

 If anyone is still skeptical, Kidd is willing to stake more than personal
 pride on the veracity of his claims. 'I'm prepared to bet my house against
 their house,' he says. 'All those academics can take me up on that if they
 still refuse to believe me. They'll be furious when the book comes out -
 and the more fury the book raises, the happier I'll be - but I doubt if
 any of them will take me up on that bet.'

 There is a theory of scientific advancement known as 'steam-kettle time'
 which asserts that once the conditions are right, a certain invention is
 more or less inevitable.

 Scattered around Europe and North America are dozens of people working
 independently on the same project. At least two others, Kidd thinks, have
 achieved anti-Newtonian lift. 'A lot of people have been working on
 'anti-gravity devices' for the same reason as me,' he says. 'The rocket is
 a crude, inefficient, dangerous device. There has to be a better way.'

 Now the timescale for commercial development of that better way is
 'directly proportional to wallet - it all depends on how much money
 someone is willing to put into it.' While it was announced yesterday that
 British Aerospace will help fund further tests, the Australian company BWN
 with whom Kidd has worked for several years will retain a keen interest in
 the device's development: the engineer will soon return to Australia, with
 his wife, to supervise more research.

 Kidd's device, then, is an idea whose time has come. And, one might say
 paradoxically, not before time. Anyone who struggles for so many years to
 achieve what is said to be impossible, who perseveres despite the diverse
 difficulties detailed in Beyond 2001, must either be mad, or know that he
 is right. Sandy Kidd is not mad. Very soon now the final verdict will be
 delivered.

 - Beyond 2001: The laws of physics revolutionized, By Sandy Kidd, with Ron
 Thompson, is published on Thursday by Sidgwick and Jackson, #14.95

 {contributed by Craig Cockburn, From Scotland on Sunday, 5-Aug-90}


<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
        Please send subscription and backissue requests to CASEE::VNS

    Permission to copy material from this VNS is granted (per DIGITAL PP&P)
    provided that the message header for the issue and credit lines for the
    VNS correspondent and original source are retained in the copy.

<><><><><><><><>   VNS Edition : 2131    Thursday 16-Aug-1990   <><><><><><><><>
----------------END-OF-ARTICLE------SO-CUT-HERE-if-you-like--------------------

      More galactic thoughts from:
Amicitia Subjugat Omnia    Hweohthte... (Hwe-oath-T)
   ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
David E. Coleman    [e-mail]
8125 48th Ave, Apt. 612
College Park, MD 20740    1-(301)-474-7424
   ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Unknowingly, he picked up a whirly blue throwstone with strange hieroglyphics
on the opposite side he didn't see, and he tossed it into the sunlit stream;
A note said he had opened a gate to some place indescribable.
   ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: An Interesting Development ...
Date: 4 Dec 91 08:13:52 GMT

In a message to Jim Speiser <30 Nov 91 23:09> Doug Rogers wrote:

 >> I predict that this person will either a) never come forward,
 >> b) will come forward with an alias, or c) will come forward
 >> with his real name, but will be able to provide nothing
 >> in the way of evidence, either for his claims or his background.

 DR> <grin>  Are you entering this in PARANET_PREDICT??????

I should, hey?

Jim

--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Omni Online
Date: 4 Dec 91 08:15:51 GMT

In a message to Jim Speiser <02 Dec 91 07:50> Peggy Noonan wrote:

 PN>        Thanks for the suggestion.  If you have any ideas on
 PN> which BBS should be included in a UFO BBS article, I'd love to
 PN> hear from you on that too, okay?
 PN>                                                ==Peggy==

Thanks, Peggy. I'll think about it. Glad to hear CUFON is back online, but am
not familiar with Jim Klotz. Is Dale Goudie still connected with it?

Jim

--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Revision/Update
Date: 4 Dec 91 08:23:28 GMT

In a message to Michael Corbin <30 Nov 91 23:26> Linda Bird wrote:

 LB> Hello Mike,

 LB> To my surprise, Loren revised his paper on Bentwaters without a
 LB> fuss, and I'll send it out Monday.  (Will miracles never cease??)

Linda:

Suppose I could get a copy as well, to show to John?

Thanks!

     Jim


--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Popular Mechanics
Date: 4 Dec 91 08:34:44 GMT

In a message to All <03 Dec 91 01:22> John Burke wrote:


 JB> As an aside, I am rather suspicious about the way in which UFO
 JB> design has parallelled earthly design trends.  The older UFO
 JB> photographs and sketches (such as the McMinnville, Oregon UFO)
 JB> have an almost "art deco" look.  More recent UFOs, as
 JB> photographed in the Hudson Valley area and in Belgium have a more
 JB> "Stealth"-y, Bauhaus type of look that is so popular nowdays.
 JB>                                  --  John


John:

I am currently working on an article for CONTINUUM that will address this
issue, and much more. It's turning out to be sort of a Unified Field Theory of
UFOs. I might just send you an advance draft for review...I think I'll need a
reality check for this one.

Jim

--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Revision/Update
Date: 5 Dec 91 04:04:00 GMT

Hi Jim,

Will certainly see that you get an update of Loren's report/retort!

Linda

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: CU.NIH.GOV!ZAK
Subject:  EARLY AMERICANS
Date: 5 Dec 91 18:33:45 GMT

From: [e-mail]

From: wam.umd.edu!infinity
+ In July or August 1989 a French anthropological or archaeological journal
+ published or reviewed a study by a Brazilian archaeologist/anthropologist
+ concerning remains in northern Brazil dated by thermoluminescence to
+ be 300,000 years old. This came on the heels of a discovery in the Mojave
+ Desert, which was at the time quite controversial, concerning 270,000 year
+ old evidence of human habitation. I have been unable to find the journal,
+ as I got my information from a news periodical I should have photocopied.
              -- MORE--


Have you seen the book _American_Genesis_ by the-name-escapes-me?





--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: wrs.com!davidj
Subject: Vegas Update
Date: 6 Dec 91 02:33:28 GMT

From: [e-mail] (David Jones)


***************************
  Written a few days ago
***************************

        I called Wendelle Stevens at home last Sunday night and asked him if
        the rumor was true.  He said that the only time he was approached by
        the F.B.I.  was in May and in regards to the Russians.  His (Dec 12th)
        Thursday night special will be more undisclosed stuff from Bob Lazar
        and, if he comes out from the underground, a 2nd level security guard
        from northern Nellis will tell what he knows (not a test pilot - Oh
        well).

        I spent most of last Saturday and Sunday with Marina Popovich, asking
 her everything I could think of. I will be with Colin Andrews this
 weekend.
 I need to be at the Russian Consolate in San Francisco tomorrow for
 a press conference with Marina, Andrews and Harder anouncing the
 Soviet American UFO/ET Symposium that I am helping to produce. On
 Sunday I will be with Dr. Steven Greer, founder of CSETI who has
 been successful in getting a group consciousness of 30 - 50 people
 to get an alien fly-by.  I'll beleive it when I see it.  Location
 is classified.  Next week I'm off to the Vegas show.  I wish I had time
 to share with you what Marina had to say.  Maybe later ...

***************************
        UPDATE
***************************

 Well, according to Bob Brown, Wendelle's grandson, Mr. Cox, just
 spent a bunch of time with this, so-called, 2nd level security
 guard by travelling all over Florida with him.  As it turns out
 none of the things that this guard said could be verified.  Cox
 left the guy in Florida after deciding that he was a con man.  This
 is very disappointing.  As I write this, Cox is in his car on his
 way back to Arizona.  Oh well, perhaps it was too good to be true ...

 I apologize for the mis/dis-information, it was unintentional.  Ah, but
 the intrigue ... :-)

-------------------
  David W. Jones
  [e-mail] OR
  uunet!wrs!davidj
-------------------




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Dale Anderson)
Subject: Q&A: John Burroughs
Date: 5 Dec 91 03:07:07 GMT


In a message to All <21 Nov 91 15:35> Jim Speiser wrote:

 JS>                    PARANET Q&A: JOHN BURROUGHS

 JS> If you have any questions or comments about the Bentwaters case
 JS> that you would like to address to any of these witnesses, please
 JS> post them in reply to this message. I will compile all the
 JS> questions and send them on to John, and then will transcribe his
 JS> responses to the network.

You bet.  Here they are.  Questions are addressed to John Burroughs, or as he
deems, to another individual.
-+--

1. How do you respond to the allegation by Jacques Vallee in his new book,
Revelations", that you and your UFO witness group may have been unknowing
subjects of a psychological experiment perpetrated by the U.S. military?

2. Did anything seem different in regard to the way the SP's reacted to the
bright lights in Rendlesham Forest?  Any actions that didn't follow Air Force
guidelines/checklists?  Is it official A.F. policy to disallow weapon use off
the base?

3. The second patrol unit that met you near the base gates, was this unit on a
routine patrol as you were?  How many patrols are normally in force during the
evening hours?

4. The object that appeared to land.  Was this object disc shaped or other?
Did the object appear to rotate?  Was any sound heard from the object?  How
many feet away, at closest approach, were you from the landed UFO?  Do you
feel this object was under a controlled guidance?

5. Were you present when the red object 'broke up' and dispersed?  If not,
would Col. Halt describe this in more detail?

6. We have heard various rumors of entities being present during the sighting
of the landed UFO.  Do you know if there is any truth to these rumors?

7. Did anyone remark about their watches being off time, or items to that
nature?

8. Do you know if the malfunctioning light-alls were found to be defective
upon later inspection?

9. Does the Air Force continue to neither confirm nor deny the sightings?  Has
anyone experienced discontent from the Air Force, since appearing on the
Unsolved Mysteries program?

10. Are you currently on active Air Force Reserve status?

11. Were the forest animals actually highly agitated and frightened?  Were
they possibly confused because of the bright lights and the sense of daylight?

12. What was the total time duration of all events, to the best of your
knowledge?

13. In your opinion, do you feel the governments of the world are involved in
a UFO cover-up?  Why, or why not?

14. Have you witnessed, other than the Bentwaters incident, a UFO which you
couldn't explain?  Have you recalled periods of unaccounted 'missing time'?

15. What are your thoughts when challenged by skeptical people who say the
Bentwaters events never happened as you and your comrades described them?

16. How have the UFO events changed your life?

-+--
That's it.  Please thank Mr. Burroughs for his time and his appearance on
Unsolved Mysteries.  I also extend my thanks to the remainder of the
Bentwaters witnesses for coming forward with their story, as well.

 JS> Also, we're open to suggestions for future Q&A subjects. Among
 JS> all the members of this network, there's barely a major UFO
 JS> figure in the world that cannot be reached fairly easily for
 JS> comments.

The following suggestions may fall within the "barely" category.  :-)

Jacques Vallee: UFO/abduction origin theories and how they may interrelate.

Linda Howe: The proposed connections between mutilations and black helicopters.

John Keel: His current mindset regarding Roswell and UFOs.

Lawrence Fawcett and/or Barry Greenwood: The overall success rate of procuring
formerly classified documents via FOIA requests, and past/pending legislation
that has/could impede the FOIA.

Robert Lazar: Area 51, and why he decided to speak up.  Why others won't.

Thanks for the opportunity, Jim.  It's greatly appreciated by all of us.

                                                            Regards,
                                                            Dale
--
Dale Anderson - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Welcome back!
Date: 6 Dec 91 04:42:00 GMT

Hi Vlad,

Glad to see you are enjoying the weather there.  Ours isn't too bad,
either.  When I was in Greece in the summertime, I'd always meet
Aussies trying to get away from the winters!

In that part of Australia where you are now, is there enough farming
and growing of grains to get some crop circles?  We're all waiting to
see what develops in your neck of the woods!

Keep your eyes on the skies,

Linda

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Sphinx debated
Date: 6 Dec 91 05:09:00 GMT

Hi David,
 I greatly enjoyed the articles on the Sphinx, and hope you will post
your findings.  In the latest issue of UFO Newsclipping Service, there
were 2 articles on the professors and the Sphinx.  Fascinating!

Best,

Linda

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: UFORA moving to Cairns
Date: 5 Dec 91 18:49:56 GMT

In a message to Jim Speiser <05 Dec 91 00:45> Vladimir Godic wrote:

 >> Good to have you back! Things have been slow in your absence,
 >> except for a highly skeptical report on the Belgium case (which
 >> itself must be viewed with skepticism...)

 VG> Jim,

 VG> Yes IT'S good to be back with you guys. Re the Belgium case, I
 VG> just read the report on Paranet. Makes you wonder why suddenly such a
 VG> contradictory report.  There's definitely something going on.
 VG> Hopefully we can find out the truth behind it.

Offhand I would say its typical knee-jerk debunking. The article doesn't
address the photographs I've seen, and it addresses the radar traces in such a
general, detached manner, that I'm sure its a case of someone who didn't really
do the research and is filtering his observations through his total disbelief
in UFOs.

Jim


--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Burke)
Subject: Omni Online
Date: 6 Dec 91 07:17:00 GMT

Peggy:

I've noticed that in the last 2 issues of _Omni_ there has been
no "Antimatter" section and hence, no "UFO Update".  Did they
drop it or what?
                                --  John

--
John Burke - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Burke)
Subject: Popular Mechanics
Date: 6 Dec 91 07:20:00 GMT

Jim Speiser writes:

 > I am currently working on an article for CONTINUUM that
 > will address this issue, and much more. It's turning out to
 > be sort of a Unified Field Theory of UFOs. I might just
 > send you an advance draft for review...I think I'll need a
 > reality check for this one.

I'll look forward to it!
                                  --  John

--
John Burke - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Steve Rose)
Subject: Re: Omni Comments
Date: 4 Dec 91 02:21:00 GMT


 SR> Alright!  Now there's some meat on dem bones.  :)

 JS> How bout taking it one step further, and allowing the claimants to
 JS> review the debunking, point by point, perhaps going back and forth
 JS> until it boils down to a fundamental difference in philosophy


Naw...they would then be forced to raise the subscription rates.  ;-)






--
Steve Rose - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Steve Rose)
Subject: Re: Omni ONLINE
Date: 4 Dec 91 02:23:00 GMT


 PN> Have you been doing this -- the UFO boards -- long enough to note
 PN> any kind of seasonal variation in participation?  That could make a
 PN> difference to OMNI's scheduling plans, if they should go ahead with
 PN> this idea.  You wouldn't want to launch when nobody's home!


As we have found out here after BBS sysoping for six years now...

        "Summer's a Bummer...but Winter is a Wonderland."   :-)





--
Steve Rose - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Hicks)
Subject: Omni Online
Date: 6 Dec 91 01:35:00 GMT


 > proposal for the mag for an article about the UFO BBS,

  The main thing is that unlike CI$ and similar services, the ufo nets are
networks, and access may be available in the reader's home town. Many writers
don't seem to understand the concept of networks rather than a central system,
and they leave the reader with an impression that the only way to get into an
echo is to call the host, wherever that might be, just like with CI$.
  So, please try to get across that these are far-flung networks. For example,
idonet has some 10,000 or so nodes, ranging from Southeast Asia, Australia and
New Zealand to the west, to Canada to the north, to the tip of South America to
the south, to Moscow to the east. Truly an international network. So, if for
instance a Moscow node wanted to pick up Fidonet UFO from Zone 1, he could,
and it would be available to users in Moscow.
  ParaNet also has quite a few international links, as do some of the other
nets.
  The main point is that a potential user can find the echos with a local call,
rather than having to call long-distance. If a particular echo doesn't exist
locally, a few polite requests can work wonders.
                                           jbh

--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to********
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UUCP            {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom!infopara-request
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 To obtain back issues by anonymous ftp, connect to:

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******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************

                Info-ParaNet Newsletters   Volume I  Number 510

                          Thursday, December 12th 1991

Today's Topics:

                                Mysterious Object
                                 Re: Omni ONLINE
                                   Omni Online
                              UFO BOOK ON COMPUTER
                                  Ray Stanford
                               UFO Research (NSW)
                                 Tasmanian Tiger
                     UFO Research in Australia & New Zealand
                                Re: Welcome back!
                             Mystery Object of 12/5

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From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Mysterious Object
Date: 10 Dec 91 17:01:00 GMT


 * Forwarded from "Fido UFO Echo"
 * Originally from Bruce Fairbanks
 * Originally dated 12-07-91 20:45

Here is a story I read in our local paper today (Sacramento Bee- Sacramento,CA):

                  UFO SLIPS BY EARTH,REMAINS A PUZZLE
By David L. Chandler      Boston Globe            BOSTON - The unidentified
object that hurtled past Earth before dawn on Thursday remains a mystery,
astronomers said Friday, and it apparently slipped by without them getting a
good look at it.      A week ago astronomers had decided that the tiny object,
which passed slightly farther away from Earth than the moon's distance of 240,
000 miles, was probably an asteroid - a chunk of interplanetary rock probably
less than 30 feet across.      But observations on Monday by European
astronomers working in Chile showed dramatic variations in brightness, which
suggest an irregularly shaped, tumbling object with great variations in its
surface reflectivity, much more so than expected for a natural object like an
asteroid, said astronomer Brian Marsden.      Marsden said Friday that the
variation in brightness "means we are dealing with some very peculiar object. I
would say man-made. I think it would be hard to explain this kind of variation
with a natural object, even a small one."
     But Marsden and others are still puzzling over what kind of
man-made object it is.
     Marsden said two weeks ago that it was probably the leftover
Centaur rocket used in 1974 to launch a solar satellite called Helios.
But more precise calculations of the object's orbit, based on the
latest observations, show that, traced backward, it never quite meets
Earth as it should if it had been launched from Earth.
     There is a possible explanation for that discrepancy, Marsden
said. Centaur rockets sometimes contain leftover hydrogen fuel after
they reach orbit, and this fuel could continue to leak out, perhaps
for years. This could propel the rocket in unpredictable directions.
     During its closest approach to Earth on Thursday, the object was
too far south to be visible from anywhere in the Northern Hemisphere.
Astronomers at the European Southern Observatory in Chile tried to get
pictures of it shortly after its closest approach in order to get more
precise data on its exact path and to make further measurements of its
brightness varations.
     But as of Friday, they were unable to find any sign of the object
in their pictures.
     Because of the difficulty of the observation and the faintness of
the object, astronomers Richard West and Oliver Hainaut at the
observatory in the Chilean Andes continued to examine their images
carefully Friday.
     These observations are essential to guarantee the success of a
planned radar observation of the object when it returns to visibility
in the Northern Hemisphere next week. A successful radar observation
"would clinch it" as to whether the object is natural or artificial,
Marsden said.
     Because of the uncertain movements of a rocket leaking leftover
fuel, however, it may never be possible to identify it as a specific
rocket.
     If it is artificial, but not a known rocket, that might explain
the astronomers' inability to locate it in their pictures, Marsden
joked.
     "Maybe that's why they couldn't be found last night," he said.
"Maybe they landed."



--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Michael Schuyler)
Subject: Re: Omni ONLINE
Date: 11 Dec 91 04:12:00 GMT

In a message to Peggy Noonan <11-30-91 16:30> Jim Speiser wrote:
JS>
JS>  How's about a mention of ParaNet somewhere in the AntiMatter column?
JS>  I recall that there was a brief story done on Dale Goudie's old CUFON
JS>  system, but that system went over like an 1890's airship. It may be
JS>  time to update OMNI's readers on the state of online ufology.

Jim, CUFON is back up and running with a Seattle-area BBS with files only
and refuses ANY echo mail connection. [phone] is the number. I've
talked with him on the phone a coupla times; rather, I listened to him on
the phone a coupla times. His main thing is to get Congress to open an
investigation.
--Michael

--
Michael Schuyler - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Omni Online
Date: 11 Dec 91 07:01:02 GMT

John, that was an excellent message.  The best way for me to get
that info across is to quote you -- send your own words to them.
It's a clear and informative picture anyone can grasp. Thanks very
much!
                                ==Peggy==
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Bill Chalker UFORA Associate NSW)
Subject: UFO BOOK ON COMPUTER
Date: 8 Dec 91 18:35:00 GMT

I thought all of you using Paranet would be very interested
in the "UFO Research in Australia and New Zealand" digital
book.  It has over 90,000 words in more than 800 pages
(computer pages) covering over 300 topics, with full search
and print facility.  It is IBM PC or compatible, (Hard disk)
EGA or VGA.  It comes as compressed files on a single
standard DS DD floppy disk, which is uncompressed onto your
hard disk.
It is a package produced by a professional publisher (Dynamo
House Pty. Ltd., 38a Murphy Street, Richmond, Victoria, 3121,
AUSTRALIA. I have been looking at a review copy.  I am
advised by the publishers that they have just taken receipt
of the first batch and distribution should begin soon.  I'm
not sure of distribution methods at this stage.  The price
is, I understand $29.95 Australian dollars.  For all of you
overseas we will see what can be arranged.
First off this is admittedly a biased review.
I am a UFORA associate and much of my own material appears
in the book.  However the book is a collection of material
published in the UFO Research Australian Newsletter (UFORAN)
with some updated material added.
Even though I am very familiar with all this material, I
found the search facility would make this book a real asset
to any researcher and to anybody who is interested in
getting reliable information on the UFO situation in
Australia and New Zealand.
The emphasis in the book is on case material and it is
certainly rich in that.
I will not give a full a full listing here of its contents
(it would take too long!) but here are some highlights:
Historical (pre 1947) reports from Australia & New Zealand
(NZ), which includes the 1868 Birmingham "UFO vision" and
the 1909 wave.
The Maatsuyker Island reports (a remote lighthouse locality
off Tasmania which has been the focus of some fascinating
reports).
The Rosedale UFO landing case of 1980, which must be one of
Australia's most significant physical trace cases, and
certainly is not an example of a Meaden "plasma vortex" as
suggested by Jenny Randles & Paul Fuller in their CROP
CIRCLES book.
The BOYUP BROOK beam/car control case.
A marvelous display of apparent UFO technology in an
extraordinary daylight  event in a close encounter in
suburban Sydney in 1970.  The locality is Whalan. It is this
sort of case that makes even the most hardened "its all in
the mind" camp think twice.
Entity cases from Australia & NZ.
Photographic evidence specifically 2 movie footages of
particular importance.
Sightings by aircraft pilots.
Radar visual events.
Vehicle interference cases including the extraordinary and
classic "bent headlight beam" case from Burkes Flat in 1966.
The Mundrabilla case in depth.
Australian "interrupted journeys" (time loss cases)
An extraordinary detailed account of possible telepathic
contact in an Australian desert encounter.
Australian abduction cases.
RAAF UFO files (i.e. our Air Force files) revealed in depth.
In otherwords here we have a huge amount of data for you
thirsty UFO researchers and interested parties.
You will have a great time just reading and even better you
have a great facility for file searching and printing. I
have it up on my computer and it sure beats the time waster
of searching through hard copy.
I certainly have no reservations in recommending this UFO
book on computer to you all.  It gives you an extraordinary
and reliable (the last point is very important these days!)
look at the UFO mystery as seen from the microcosm of
Australia & NZ.
It also comes with a 12 page illustration file booklet
referenced to the computer text, much of it in colour.
This well worth the money.  You will also be helping a
professional UFO research outfit at the same time, namely
UFORA which needs no introduction to Paranet users.
The package is not totally free of errors -a few slipped
through. eg. On the box cover "John Johnston, Joan Knapman"
should read "John Knapman, Joan Johnston" ) sadly passed
away this year.  The booklet lists "UFO's and the Royal
UFO's Air Force" which will be amusing for the Royal
Australian Air Force.  Also it is not clear from the text
that Bruce Harding was the original investigator and writer
in the 1944 Christchurch NZ case - a wonderful CE3 event.
However these gaffs overall do not take away from an
excellent product.
GET OUT THERE AND BUY IT.  YOU WON'T REGRET IT.
Best regards from Bill Chalker.

--
Bill Chalker UFORA Associate NSW - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Bill Chalker UFORA Associate NSW)
Subject: Ray Stanford
Date: 8 Dec 91 18:50:00 GMT

A number of years ago Ray Stanford's PSI group announced it
had some UFO spectra for which they were seeking funds to
study.  Ray's group broke up.  I did bump into him at
the Washington MUFON conference in 1987, but unfortunately
there was only time for a hello and little else.
Now Ray has had an extremely varied career.  I was a member
for a while of the AUM group, which published his "Source"
material - ahead of his time given the current in vogue
channelling  craze.  But it was Ray's PSI activities that
interested me the most.
I gather Ray is now resident in Washington DC area.
The reason I'm asking is that I have a University associate
here in Australia with a specific interest in UFO spectra
and who would be willing to examine credible evidence for
UFO spectra.
Now, I cant believe or hope that the spectra has not been
examined by now by some hopefully responsible crowd in the
US but I have not heard anything about it.  Besides this
side of it I would like to renew contact with Ray.
Thanks in advance for anyone who can help.
I saw recently ghe had helped Bob Oechsler in
Washington/Maryland investigations!!!
Regards, Bill Chalker.

--
Bill Chalker UFORA Associate NSW - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Bill Chalker UFORA Associate NSW)
Subject: UFO Research (NSW)
Date: 8 Dec 91 19:21:00 GMT

I have been associated with UFO Research (NSW) since 1977
when I helped form it from the UFO Investigation Centre
(UFOIC).  During the latter part of the 1980s & up to now I
have kept it going as its director on an intentionally low
profile and informal networking basis, mainly because of the
lack of keen workers and my distaste for UFO group politics.
During that time I have preferred to network my group and my
own research findings through other wider networking
facilities  such as the Australian Centre for UFO Studies
(ACUFOS) and UFORA, rather than publish my own newsletter.
I found this to be a good working arrangement and a great
deal of useful information was circulated this way.
Unfortunately UFO politics have taken a rather negative turn
lately with a new style of ACUFOS which seems to prefer to
promote the claims of Bieleck, Lear, Cooper etc.  I have
made my views clear to the current ACUFOS management (Martin
Gottschall) and have completely dissociated myself from its
activities.
Perhaps related to this,   the new ACUFOS set about trying
to get a UFO group (of its persausion) going in New South
Wales (NSW).  Although I do not agree with much of what the
new ACUFOS and UFO Research (Queensland) are doing, this is
a democracy and new breakthroughs are possible through all
sorts of avenues, no matter how bizarre.  So I was not
concerned about a new group in NSW - plenty of room for
that.
However I did not expect this new group, which had its
inargural meeting in November, 1991, to take my group name!
This is what they have done and they have registered it as a
business name, something I found unnecessary to do since
1977!  This leaves me with not much room to move re group
names.  A name change has been forced on my informal NSW
network group.
This message is designed to alert you to these confusing and
rather disappointing developments.
As of November, 1991, my UFO Research (NSW) group (formerly
known as UFOIC), will be known as the UFO Investigation
Centre (UFOIC), the ORIGINAL UFO RESEARCH (NSW).
Please understand that I have nothing what so ever to do
with the new UFO Research (NSW).  My UFOR(NSW) activities
span 1977 to 1991 and my UFOIC involvement goes back to
1969.  UFOIC itself goes back to 1955, when it was reformed
from the original Australian group AFSB then run by Edgar
Jarrold.
Some of the principles of the NEW UFO Research (NSW) group
are Bryan Dickeson, Moira McGhee and Paul Sowiak-Rudej.  I
repeat I have no connect with this group and they have no
connection with my UFOR(NSW) (1977-91) activities, other
than brief and limited involvement from some of their
members.  They did not maintain any involvement since the
early 80s.
I should point out that my group has close ties with the
national network UFORA.
I can be contacted via this folder, through my box address:
P.O. Box W42, West Pennant Hills, NSW, 2125, AUSTRALIA
or on voice line: Sydney [phone].
Regards from Bill Chalker.

--
Bill Chalker UFORA Associate NSW - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Pony Godic)
Subject: Tasmanian Tiger
Date: 11 Dec 91 05:46:00 GMT

The following is recorded purely for your interest.  It more than
likely is mundane in nature.  However, a discussion with Bill Chalker
in which Bill said the unusual tail carriage of the creature I saw is
very typical of Tasmanian Tigers prompts me to relate the following
just in case I did in fact see something unusual: On November 13,
1991, my husband Vladimir and I left Adelaide in South Australia and
spent 5 days in transit to Cairns in Far North Queensland where we
now live.  We have literally moved from one end of Australia to the
other. On the first day we were travelling from late afternoon
through to around midnight on the particularly desolate stretch of
highway between Broken Hill and a little service station come truck
stop area called Neferti.  This road runs through thick, flat
scrubland.  The whole area is infested with kangaroos and wallabies.
The road was like a slaughterhouse with kangaroo carcases every few
hundred metres or so, the victims of mostly trucks.  Anyway, we were
literally on the edge of our seats because there were kangaroos and
wallabies grazing along the side of the road in enormous numbers.
They're pretty but not very bright and you never know which way
they're going to jump, so you have to slow right down when they're at
the edge of the road.  Consequently we were travelling between 40-60
km/h with our eyes constantly scanning for the closer of these
creatures.  Being grey they were inclined to blend with the scrub,
especially in poor light.  Anyway, during the late afternoon mostly
crows and eagles were eating at the dead kangaroos on the road.  In
the night feral cats and other small creatures were feeding on them.
During dusk we approached a kangaroo carcass that had just one
creature eating at it.  As we drove up, the creature looked up, saw
us, decided to get of the road, sort of trotted, sort of sauntered to
the side of the road, right to left, and then stood on the side of
the road, its nose pointing towards the scrub, as it waited patiently
for us to pass.  As it stood there I particularly noticed its tail.
It was extremely long and held dead level and straight with the back.
I figure all told I saw the creature for a full 8 seconds or more.
First I was taken with the way it moved, it was sort of cat like in
that it was stealthy, but it wasn't slinky like a cat.  It was sort
of dog like in that it trotted, but it wasn't the jarring movement
that one sees in a dog.  On the side of the road, I got a good long
look at the creature.  As stated I was particularly taken with its
tail, but I'll start at the other end.  It had a head like a dog's,
except the ears were either small and rounded like a cat's or else
they hung over at the tips. It had a medium sized dark eye.  Its
mouth was open but it wasn't panting so I couldn't see its tongue.
Its head carriage was like a dog's although a little lower.  Its neck
was about as long as a dog's.  It had noticeable withers and a rib
cage but they were not pronounced.  Its legs were rather strong and
slender looking.  Even though its body was so long, the legs did not
look short or out of proportion.  The animal was about as tall as a
cattle dog, but easily twice as long in body length.  Its tail was
really long, as long as the body, maybe as long as the body and head
combined.  I was particularly taken with it not only because it was
so long and held in such a peculiar way, but because it was round and
tapered down to a rounded end.  Starting on the shoulder and going
almost as far as the end of the rib cage were stripes, I estimate
around 6. They were frayed at the edges and appeared about 3
centimetres wide.  They were slightly bowed like so (.  They were
slate grey i.e. they weren't dark enough to call black and not light
enough to call grey.  The rest of the creature was a dun or camel
colour.  While I was watching this I thought it must be a bandicoot,
then, noticing the stripes I wondered if it could be a Tasmanian
Tiger.  I then replayed from memory the short piece of news footage
of the last Tasmanian Tiger which, as I recall was in Taronga Park
Zoo in the 1930s.  This poor creature was pacing up and down.  It had
a longer snout than the creature I saw.  It had a more pronounced
wither and deeper chest cage.  I think it was shorter in body length
and overall its lines were chunkier and thicker than the animal I
saw.  Having made this comparison I then decided that I must be
looking at a bandicoot.  It was only after that it occurred to me
that bandicoot are much smaller creatures, although I'm no expert and
could very well be wrong on this point.  Anyway, I'd obviously have
to see the footage on that last Tasmanian Tiger again to decide how
valid my comparison was.  I don't recall its tail or ears at all, and
am unclear on its stripes.  Anyway, the above is included only for
interest, I'm definitely not claiming to have seen a Tasmanian Tiger,
but I may have seen something unusual.

Pony Godic, UFORA Secretary.

--
Pony Godic - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Pony Godic)
Subject: UFO Research in Australia & New Zealand
Date: 11 Dec 91 06:00:00 GMT

"UFO Research in Australia & New Zealand" a compilation of material,
dealing with the small residue of unexplained cases, has been
released. The book was compiled by UFO Research Australia.  Pony
Godic typed the manuscript.  She and husband Vladimir were involved
in numerous proof readings as well as approaching publishers.  The
book contains material published in the "UFO Research Australia
Newsletter" and all contributors have agreed that any and all profits
will be put back into the magazine in an effort to increase its
frequency.  We are especially pleased that so many good Australian
researchers have had their work showcased in the book and
congratulate them all in their own right and express our pleasure
that rational sane research is getting in the spotlight for a change.
The book is on computer disk with accompanying booklet of photos and
diagrams.  It was released with 2 other titles and this is the first
time that digital books have been published in Australia.  Our
publisher believed in the book and didn't want any changes.  However,
in the middle of a recession he found it hard to publish in hardcopy
and so requested permission to do the book digitally.   For further
information see Bill Chalker's review.

Pony Godic, UFORA Secretary.

--
Pony Godic - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: Re: Welcome back!
Date: 12 Dec 91 05:48:00 GMT


 > Glad to see you are enjoying the weather there.  Ours isn't too
 > bad, either.  When I was in Greece in the summertime, I'd always
 > meet Aussies trying to get away from the winters!

Hi Linda,

Well there will be no more winter for us. If we go visiting friends
and relatives, down in Adelaide, it will be during their summer.


 > In that part of Australia where you are now, is there enough
 > farming and growing of grains to get some crop circles?  We're
 > all waiting to see what develops in your neck of the woods!

No, there is no farming and growing of grains in Far North Queensland.
They only grow sugar cane as well as bananas and tropical fruit. I don't
remember of any reports of circles seen on sugar cane fields.
However, there was famous Tully (not far from Cairns) report, back in
60s, where an object left a large circle on reeds in a swamp.

 > Keep your eyes on the skies,

I sure will. As a matter of fact, as soon as we've settled down here,
we'll be helping our associate - UFO Research Far North  QLD - with their
reports and investigations. We also intend to go for night drives in
case we can see something ourselves.

Vlad

--
Vladimir Godic - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: kether.webo.dg.com!tom
Subject: Mystery Object of 12/5
Date: 11 Dec 91 18:33:12 GMT

From: [e-mail] (Tom Sullivan)


I've seen nothing on the net regarding this, but I found this in the
Globe:

Without permission from the Boston Globe, 12/7, page 13:

Mystery object eludes astronomers

By David L. Chandler, Globe Staff

 The unidentified object that hurtled past Earth before dawn on
Thursday remains a mystery, astronomers said yesterday, and it
apparently slipped by without them getting a good look.
 A week ago, astronomers had decided that the tiny object,
which passed slightly farther away from Earth than the moon's distance
of 240,000 miles, was probably an asteroid -- a chunk of
interplanetary rock probably less than 30 feet across [BUT, read on!].
 But observations on Monday by European astronomers working in
Chile showed dramatic variations in brightness which suggest an
irregularly shaped, tumbling object with great variations in its
surface reflectivity, much more so than expected for a natural object
like an asteroid, said Brian Marsden, an astronomer.
 Marsden, director of the Cambridge-based International
Astronomical Union's Bureau for Astronomical Telegrams and Minor
Planet Center, said yesterday that the variation in brightness 'means
we are dealing with some very peculiar object.  I would say man-made.
I think it wold be hard to explain this kind of variation with a
natural object, even a small one.'
 But Marsden and others are still puzzling over what kind of
man-made object it is.
 Marsden said two weeks ago that it was probably the leftover
Centaur rocket used in 1974 to launch a sun-observing satellite called
Helios.  But more precise calculations of the object's orbit, based on
the latest observations, show that, traced backwards, it never quite
meets Earth, as it should if it had been launched from Earth.
 There is a possible explaination for that descrepancy, Marsden
said:  Centaur rockets sometimes contain leftover hydrogen fuel after
they reach orbit, and this fuel could continue to leak out, perhaps
for years.  This could propel the rocket in unpredictable directions,
like air escaping from a balloon that send it careening aound a room.
 During its closest approach to Earth on Thursday, the object
was too far south to be visible from anywhere in the northern
hemisphere.  Astronomers at the European Southern Observatory in Chile
tried to get pictures of it shortly after its closest approach in
order to get more precise data on its exact path and to make further
measurements of its brightness variations.
 But as of yesterday, they were unable to find any sign of the
object in their pictures.
 Because of the difficulty of the observation and the faintness
of the object, astronomers Richard West and Oliver Hainaut at the
observatory in the Chilean Andes continued to examine their images
carefully yesterday.
 These observations are essential to guarantee the success of a
planned radar observation of the object when it returns to visibility
in the northern hemisphere next week.  A successful radar observations
'would clinch it' as to whether the object is natural or artificial,
Marsden said.
 'I was hoping it would be natural,' said Marsden, because that
would make it a very unusual type of asteroid and the smallest ever
detected, and therefore interesting to astronomers.  But because of
the brightness changes seen this week, he is now '90 percent sure'
that it is artificial.
 Because of the uncertain movements of a rocket leaking
leftover fuel, however, it may never be possible to identify it as a
specific rocket.
 If it is artificial but not any known rocket, that might
explain the astronomers' inability to locate it in their pictures,
Marsden joked.
 'Maybe that's why they couldn't be found last night,' he said.
'Maybe they landed.'


Tom




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******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************

                Info-ParaNet Newsletters   Volume I  Number 511

                          Saturday, December 14th 1991

Today's Topics:

                               Re: Sphinx debated
                       300,000 yrs ago, humans in Americas
                                   Belgian UFO
                                The 'Big Picture'
                              Receipt Acknowledged
                             Re: ANTIGRAVITY REPORT
                               Re: SPHINX DEBATED
                               Re: The UFO Report
                         Fido/Para net boards in the UK
                                  Vegas Update
                                 The UFO Report
                                  Crop circles
                                   Bill Cooper
                               Re: The Ufo Report
                                   Bill Cooper
                               Richard Price tape
               Re: Mysteri ses Flugobject rast auf die Erde zu...
                           Douglas Bower's Exhibition
                               Re: SPHINX DEBATED
                                  UFO Magazine

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Sphinx debated
Date: 6 Dec 91 05:09:00 GMT

Hi David,
 I greatly enjoyed the articles on the Sphinx, and hope you will post
your findings.  In the latest issue of UFO Newsclipping Service, there
were 2 articles on the professors and the Sphinx.  Fascinating!

Best,

Linda

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Clark Matthews)
Subject: 300,000 yrs ago, humans in Americas
Date: 7 Dec 91 06:34:00 GMT

In a message to All <03 Dec 91 18:58> wam.umd.edu!infinity wrote:

 nc> From: David Elmore Coleman <[e-mail]>

 nc> In July or August 1989 a French anthropological or archaeological journal
 nc> published or reviewed a study by a Brazilian archaeologist/anthropologist
 nc> concerning remains in northern Brazil dated by thermoluminescence to
 nc> be 300,000 years old. This came on the heels of a discovery in the Mojave
 nc> Desert, which was at the time quite controversial, concerning 270,000 year
 nc> old evidence of human habitation. I have been unable to find the journal,

Hi David -- I hope you'll be able to keep us aprised on this topic.  So many
archaeological OOPARTS (Out-of-place Artifacts) are so tempting to speculate
about.  Cyclopean stones off Andros Island, ancient, weathered tunnels thru
Utah, etc.  These things have given Charles Berlitz endless fodder -- and
they're genuinely confusing  and challenging.  So I think you and the
Brazilians are probably on to something, but it's almost impossible to imagine
what.

Anyhow, I hope you can keep us posted.

 nc> and found an abstract on the technique of thermoluminescent dating, by
 nc> Dr. Elisabeth Mateus and a host of others, all at the University of
 nc> Sao Paulo. The name Dr. Elisabeth Mateus rang a bell and I remembered

Could you tell us what theroluinescent dating is -- how it's done -- what the
accuracy is -- how controversial is it??

 nc> the book. But, I can get zip information (or whatever it is in Brazil) for
 nc> the Sao Paulo, Brazil address, hopefully from the U of Maryland library.

Or the Brazilian consulate in D.C. or N.Y could certainly provide it -- perhaps
thru a cultural attache?

 nc>        What is interesting is that California and northern Brazil are
 nc> some of the few parts of Lemuria and Atlantis (reputedly) which exist
 nc> above water today. The Peruvian Andes and coastal Carolinas are the only
 nc> other New World parts, so it is interesting that so far, assuming thee
 nc> finds are legitimate, all two finds predating the Asian-American Bering
 nc> Strait migrations are at former portions of alleged lost continents.
 nc> Hmmm...

Hmmm, indeed.  Actually, some of the most interesting stuff is underwater on
the U.S. Costal Shelf, around Bermuda and the Caribbean islands, and in the
Gulf of Mexico.  I seem to recall the discovery of a well-preserved stone
staircase leading down to a beach on the Yucatan.

But the beach is now 150' underwater, the stairs begin almost 100' underwater,
and they clearly correspond to sea levels of B.C. 20,000.

There's a similar anomaly just below Mancu Picu in the Andes:  a stairway leads
down to the beach. The beach is at about 11,000 feet elevation, and seems to
have been there before the Mountains rose to their present height!  In fact the
whole city of Mancu Picu has been "undatable" according to some sources,
because it was virtually earthquake-proof (until the Conquistadores removed
the flexible silver braces from the buildings).

Best,
  Clark



--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Belgian UFO
Date: 7 Dec 91 06:52:00 GMT

In a message to Michael Corbin <30 Nov 91 11:23> Kay Mclaughlin wrote:

 > MC> CNRS scientist Petit, well-known for the fact that his scientific
 > MC> inspiration is due to aliens (coming from planet UMMO, 15 light
 > MC> years from us, as you should know). Coincidentally, Dr Petit and
 > MC> others are publishing at the same time books on the UMMITs.

 KM> UMMO? I did read that correctly, did I not? It says UMMO, right.
 KM> Am I in a time warp, or what? I HAD NO IDEA that this group was sill
 KM> around. I remember reading about this in the 70's.

 KM> OK, I dug through my library, there is a chapter about them in "The
 KM> Invisible College" by Jacques Vallee (1976, EP Dutton).

 KM> Can anyone bring us up to date on their activities?

I second that!  Does Dr. Petit accept the UMMO hypothesis?!?

The UMMO thing has all the elements of a very elaborate long-term hoax, but
*some* stories associated with it defy explanation:  there was an MIB-like
incident in Spain, I believe, in the late 50s -- that referred to a
long-forgotten Jack-the-Ripper-like crime in the same house many years before
the MIB visit.  It's weird, weird stuff.

But I'd be surprised if Petit buys UMMO hook, line, sinker, and anonymous
mail...

Best,
  Clark


--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Clark Matthews)
Subject: The 'Big Picture'
Date: 7 Dec 91 20:23:00 GMT


David -- your Big Picture post is very thoughtful indeed.

I agree with you -- or the way your thinking is evolving, anyway.  Mine is
following similar paths.  I haven't felt the need to use a channel yet, though,
and honestly doubt the relevance of channeled information.  I think we're
making great strides in theory on our own, don't you?

Be that as it may, the M-field and the holographic paradigm could explain
plenty.  Behaviours, for instance.  If our brains work holographically, and can
also serve as receptors, perhaps much of a species' behaviour and tendencies
exist independently, outside of the species.  In the M-field.  The field could
be constantly evolving, incorporating behaviours in a species as those
behaviours become predominant.  The Hundredth Monkey observations seem to point
directly to this, and they infer some pretty Reichian stuff like a Collective
Unconscious and "shared memory".

I'd like to digest your post some more and comment further as time allows.  But
one thought I've been playing with is that UFOs -- or UFO beings, at least --
could have access to the M-field.  Perhaps they *come*  from it, or at least
need it, or rely upon it in some way.

Therefore, their agenda could be *shaping and re-shaping* behaviours,
perceptions, or beliefs.  Jacques Vallee has commented on this quite a bit, but
has not tied it in to a motive for the UFOnauts weird behaviour and frequent
appearances.  The M-field -- the total sum of human beliefs and actions --
could offer such a motive.

Thanks for the interesting observations!

Best,
  Clark


--
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UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Powell)
Subject: Receipt Acknowledged
Date: 4 Dec 91 08:49:25 GMT

In a message to Kay McLaughlin <29 Nov 91 18:52> Jim Speiser wrote:

 JS> Thanks for the flyer, got it today. Have you been to that museum?
 JS> I think the AVRO car is also at the Smithsonian, isn't it?

I've been there and haven't seen it.  If someone knows where it is I'd really
like to see it...  (I'll send free photos to the 1st correct respondee...)

Thanks, take care.
John.

--
John Powell - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Pete Porro)
Subject: Re: ANTIGRAVITY REPORT
Date: 6 Dec 91 19:22:50 GMT

I'd like to see some facts about this device in the future. So far it's a
large publicity release. Anyone have some details on whether this device has
ever lifted itself or anything, or is it a theoretical machine which lends
itself to development when materials catch up with the technology?

Just like the airplane was dependent on a light enough internal combustion
engine that could power it. Gliders already existed, wings were known, the
engine was the key to completion.
--
Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Pete Porro)
Subject: Re: SPHINX DEBATED
Date: 6 Dec 91 19:55:41 GMT

Just for the record Schoch is a Geologist. West is (as he says it) Author,
Travel Guide and self-proclaimed "rogue Egyptologist".

Most amusing is that he looks like me! If you see his picture in the Oct
10th USA today article, it's uncanny.

I'm still getting the paper from Orkney. Reports of Northern Lights, they
called them "Merry Dancers". I have seen some other allusions to fearies and
some unusual unknown terms, like the Merry Dancers. Fun to track the meaning
down. If I do move there in 1993, I will continue with Paranet.

Excavation on the Viking boat burial, on Sanday, will have begun by this
reading. It's described as the find of the century. Inlike some of the
unusual finds in the US, Scotland sent a team of six to immediatly dig and
preserve the materials found. The actual location is being kept secret until
after the research is done, just in case.

I wonder if anyone is doing anything with the claims for the Ogden Object?
Keeping it a secret and doing nothing, is fruitless. And how did they get a
part of it into an electron microscope if it can't be cut? (hmmmmm) The worst
solution to this would be no more information, and have it remain a vague
enigma eternally. Unsubstiantated claims really cork me off.

Thanks for the two articles, I read them on the plane on the way to Vegas
last week. Mike L went to the same high school with me. In fact we played in
a band together for two or three years. He's extremely intellegent, was
politically active (and I'm still not), creative person.

I graduated a year before him and that year he hooked up with some other
guys who practiced some magic. (or is that Majic?) They put a spell on a cop
that was bugging them, if that's the right term, and he had an auto accident
a couple of days later. Maybe co-incidence? Meanwhile I was in college in
Iowa, far from anything bigger than a snowdrift.

There's more, but best kept in netmail if you are interested. Mike was a
good guy and close friend for three years. That was in 1966 so who knows what
the years can do to change a person. His article alludes to Cooperish
information. I need to re-read it. The comment about the bombs being
developed for use in soil like we have in the South-West was distorted to say
it wasn't meant for Russia. First thing that came to my pea sized brain was,
What about the Gulf War? I think he is aiming towards mystery and weirdness,
and avoiding some straight forward answers.

Now if you really want to feel sorry for me, just watch the weather reports
for this area, I'm and outdoor person, 12 inches of snow is just no fun after
70 degrees in California last week.  8*)
--
Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Hrusovszky)
Subject: Re: The UFO Report
Date: 7 Dec 91 01:26:45 GMT

KB> "Henry Winkler is convinced there are other beings inm outer space-and not
KB> afraid to say so. There's a good reason for the former Fonz's sudden
KB> outspokeness. He's just served as co-executive producer of The UFO Rep
KB> which will air on US TV. And he reckons the program will prove his point. "W
KB> reports from people all over the world," he says."

Does anyone have any information on when this will air?  And if not on
National TV, what satellite and transponder it may appear on?
Thanks in advance.



--
John Hrusovszky - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Hicks)
Subject: Fido/Para net boards in the UK
Date: 7 Dec 91 07:41:01 GMT


 > We would hope to come to some arrangement with Paranet (and possibly
 > other boards) where we would become a local echo.

  Sounds *very* good.
  I can make the Fidonet Zone 1 UFO echo available, if they're interested.

                                           jbh

                                   Fidonet UFO Moderator

--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Vegas Update
Date: 8 Dec 91 07:11:32 GMT

In a message to All <06 Dec 91 12:40> wrs.com!davidj wrote:

 nc>        I apologize for the
 nc> mis/dis-information, it was unintentional.  Ah, but
 nc>        the intrigue ...        :-)


S'OK, David, we've been through it before....


Many, many, many times before...



Jim


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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: The UFO Report
Date: 8 Dec 91 18:42:06 GMT

In a message to Keith Basterfield <06 Dec 91 18:26> John Hrusovszky wrote:

 >KB> "Henry Winkler is convinced there are other beings inm outer space-and
 >KB> not
 >KB> afraid to say so. There's a good reason for the former Fonz's sudden
 >KB> outspokeness. He's just served as co-executive producer of The UFO Rep
 >KB> which
 >KB> will air on US TV. And he reckons the program will prove his point. "W
 >KB> reports from people all over the world," he says."
 JH>
 JH> Does anyone have any information on when this will air?  And if not on
 JH> National TV, what satellite and transponder it may appear on?
 JH> Thanks in advance.


John:

That's already aired in this country, it was the one-hour Fox special.

Jim

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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Crop circles
Date: 8 Dec 91 09:20:00 GMT

In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <28 Nov 91 20:08> Keith Basterfield wrote:

 KB> Despite the fact that South Australia is one of the world's
 KB> largest crop producing areas, and that crop harvesting has
 KB> commenced early here due to weather conditions, we have had nil
 KB> reports of crop circles. What to make of this?

Why, Doug & Dave are in the UK now!  Fly them back there and I'm sure they'll
crank out a few dozen for you some weekend!  :-)

Maybe the folks at Pine Gap will indulge in a little cross-training, so they
can produce a few more retired spooks who've mastered the "lightning trample"
method (a/k/a St. Vitus Dance).  As conscientious public servants, I'm sure
the Pine Gap crowd would like to oblige.

Best,
  Clark




--
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UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Bill Cooper
Date: 8 Dec 91 09:27:00 GMT

In a message to Jim Speiser <27 Nov 91 14:26> Kay Mclaughlin wrote:

 >JS> I thought I'd never mention this name again, but I thought y'all
 > JS> might be interested to know...

 KM> Never say Never

And Why ask Why?  :-)

 > JS> Bill Cooper was just on a radio show here in Phoenix, talking on the
 > JS> topic of the Kennedy Assassination. Yes, he's still touting the "Greer
 > JS> Shot Kennedy" theory. Even more interestingly, though, he is now
 ....

 KM> Perhaps Kennedy is a better money maker, believed by more folks willing
 KM> to part with $$$$. With the "alien bit", it's more work trying to
 KM> convince folks.

I'll say one thing for ol' Coop:  When he isn't chewing on the furniture or
icepicking his critic's tires, he has a good eye for a movie tie-in.

 KM> Oh no, maybe he's been cloned?

No, he always had an evil twin, Hooper.  U heard it here first.  :-)

Best,
  Clark




--
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UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Don Ecker)
Subject: Re: The Ufo Report
Date: 9 Dec 91 05:34:00 GMT

John Hrusovszky asked;

 > Does anyone have any information on when this will air?  And if not on
 > National TV, what satellite and transponder it may appear on?
 > Thanks in advance.


John, the show aired October 18th, 1991 on the FOX Network. It was a
co-production with Winkler and Ann Daniels Productions. It also as an aside,
had the highest share and rating in that time slot that Fox has ever received.

We speak about it in the next issue of UFO Magazine.

Don

--
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UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Don Ecker)
Subject: Bill Cooper
Date: 9 Dec 91 05:36:00 GMT

Clark Matthews said:

 > I'll say one thing for ol' Coop:  When he isn't chewing on the furniture
 > or icepicking his critic's tires, he has a good eye for a movie tie-in.
 >
 >  KM> Oh no, maybe he's been cloned?
 >
 > No, he always had an evil twin, Hooper.  U heard it here first.  :-)

Damn ---------- now that explains a lot. I had heard that the evil twin was
named  ** POOPER **, but I will defer to your apparently superior source!!

<GRINS AND CHUCKLESS>

Don

--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Richard Price tape
Date: 9 Dec 91 15:07:01 GMT

Hello Keith S.,
        On 10-31-91 I had a message from you via ParaNet UFO Echo in
which you requested a copy of the audiotape I'd made of the KOA
radio interview of Richard Price (the abductee who claims to have a
now-removed implant which is being studied by MIT scientists.)  I
believe I answered that I would send that tape if you'd send the
address.  Now I see that I've also had another message of nearly
identical content from Keith Basterfield, also of Australia, and
also Origin Lined: UFO Research Australia, but hwere yours says
UFORA Associate VIC, his says Research Officer.  His netmail address
is 9:1040/12 while yours is listed as 9:1040/15.
        I have received a mailing address from K.B. and have just
mailed a copy of that tape off to him.   I'm sorry to say that the
similarities --same first names and same country of origin --
apparently confused me and I thought I'd answered your request as
well, thinking you were the same person.  Now I realize I was wrong
and I apologize.  I will be happy to send the tape as you requested
if you'll send me the address.  (The one for K.B. was in Modbury
north.)
        Please accept my sincere apologies for this inattentive
error.  I didn't mean to neglect your request and am truly sorry for
this delay.
                                ==Peggy==
--
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INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Sir Wildfire)
Subject: Re: Mysteri ses Flugobject rast auf die Erde zu...
Date: 2 Dec 91 17:22:04 GMT

Andre,

     As far as the German to English translation goes, It says
Mysterious Flying Object rests(hovers) on the Erde(A river in Germany.)

               Charles Centers


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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: doc.imperial.ac.uk!aixssc.ibm.co.uk!rob
Subject: Douglas Bower's Exhibition
Date: 10 Dec 91 08:40:14 GMT

From: Robert Trevelyan <[e-mail]>


I found this gem in my local paper 'The Basingstoke Gazette'. It
included a photo of Douglas Bower with his hoaxing contraption.
I have copied it word for word, it reads :
---------------------------------------------------------------
Page 30 The Gazeete - Friday December 6, 1991

'A show of Corn for a Landscape Artist who Fooled the World'

'IT'S A FULL CIRCLE FOR THE HOAXER'S ART!'

'The man who confessed to fooling millions of people with
hundreds of corn circles is making his mark in Hartley Witney.

But its not another hoax. This time Douglas Bower is exhibiting
his paintings of the circles and the tools he said he used to make
them.

Douglas, 67, and his friend David Chorley announced this year that
they had created over the past 13 years the circles which have mystified
top scientists and the military.

Until now he hadn't dared show the circle pictures in case the link
was made with him.

Douglas started the hoax in an attempt to fool the UFO societies.
It was 'just a laugh', he said.

A contraption made with a stick and rein were used to create the
circles, he said.

Sceptics have queried how the straight lines were made in darkness.

Douglas said: ' You look through the loop on the hat, train your
eye on a fixed point, walk towards it and you get the straightest
line you could ever wish for.'

He believes that all the circles that have been found worldwide are
man-made.

Douglas is well known for his watercolours of Hampshire landscapes.

The exhibition at Century Galleries, High Street, Hartley Witney,
runs until next Thursday.'
---------------------------------------------------------------

--
Robert Trevelyan   UKnet: [e-mail]
AIX Communications    VNET: TREVELR at NHBVM7
     Voice: [phone]




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: SPHINX DEBATED
Date: 10 Dec 91 03:37:00 GMT

Hi Pete,

I saw pictures of those Egyptologists in the Nov. UFO Newsclipping
Service.  I can't locate that magazine now, so can't tell what "you"
look like.  Were "you" the dusty, bearded one??

Interesting comments on Mike L.  I sure am not the same person I was in
H.S., altho basic values have stayed the same.

Our temp is in 70's and is partly cloudy & humid.  It's the humidity
(at 60% today) that I can't stand!

Tell me anything you want on netmail....

TTYL,

Linda

--
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UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Don Ecker)
Subject: UFO Magazine
Date: 10 Dec 91 06:20:00 GMT

*UFO Magazine* Volume 7 No. 1, has now hit the print shop.

I know I have said it before, but allow me once more to state that this issue
is very big. *UFO has 3 very important scoops in this issue.

First, UFO is running the Phobos shot with my story on how it came to be.
I know may of you heard about it, now here is your chance to see it.

Second, the final installment of the Lee Graham story airs this issue. What
makes it important you ask? Well, *UFO received from Graham a document that
has never seen the "public" light of day. I know you have all heard of the
Aquarius document, and 2 or 3 pages of it have been public for a while. Well,
*UFO received the "ENTIRE" 9 pages of the Aquarius document that Bill Moore
was given reportedly by a Govt. agent connected with Falcon, and he has had
it since the early 80's. Graham has filed FOIA's on it with NO response from
the government in months. We are turning up the heat.

Third. *UFO received a startling admission from a very controversial UFO
figure while investigating the Graham story. *UFO is running with it. This
feeds right back into the intelligence establishment.

And of course, so much more.............

Call us!

Don

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********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to********
                      'infopara' at the following address:

UUCP  {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom!infopara
DOMAIN  [e-mail]

 For administrative requests (subscriptions, back issues) send to:

UUCP            {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom!infopara-request
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 To obtain back issues by anonymous ftp, connect to:

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UUCP  scicom!paranet.org!firstname.lastname

******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************

                Info-ParaNet Newsletters   Volume I  Number 512

                           Monday, December 16th 1991

Today's Topics:

                            Delphos, Kansas Incident
                                  Anitgravity?
                                Re: UFO Magazine
                         Re: Douglas Bower's Exhibition
                      Kontacts to Semjase in the "Schweiz"
                              Crop Circles: a hoax?
                            Re: Receipt Acknowledged
                                Re: Crop circles
                               Re: The UFO Report
                               Re: The Ufo Report
                                     Ufocat
                            Delphos, Kansas Incident
                   Re: Gb: Gulf Breeze Sighting. February 1991
                              Re:  Hidden Aliens???
                              Re: Firsthand Account
                                    Ufo Cults
                            Mutilated Cattle      1/

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: cwns5.INS.CWRU.Edu!xx044
Subject: Delphos, Kansas Incident
Date: 11 Dec 91 22:52:36 GMT

From: [e-mail] (UFOlogy SIG)


A person on the Cleveland Free-Net UFOlogy Sig has asked me about
the Delphos, Kansas incident and would like to obtain an article
on this which was in the Journal of UFO Studies, New Series, Vol.
1, 1989.

If anyone has this article or could upload it to me, it would be
appreciated.  Or if you could tell me where I can write for it, that
also would be appreciated.

Dale B. Wedge, Co-SySop
Cleveland Freenet UFOlogy Sig




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: ASTRO.dnet.ge.com!CARR
Subject: Anitgravity?
Date: 11 Dec 91 22:53:11 GMT

From: Paul Carr <[e-mail]>

+
 'Taking angular momentum and turning it into linear momentum without a
 reaction is just not allowed,' says Kidd - 'but that's what my machine
 does.'
+


I'm confused.  It's very easy to turn angular momentum into linear momentum
without violating the conservation of either one.  That's what a sling
does.  Is Kidd claiming that his machine violates momentum conservation?




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine
Date: 12 Dec 91 04:20:00 GMT

Hi Don,

Can't wait to see the newest issue!

Isn't this the one with the interview with Z. Sitchin, too?  <O boy!>

Bestest to ya,

Linda

--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Douglas Bower's Exhibition
Date: 12 Dec 91 04:24:00 GMT

Hi Robert,

Hurmph!  That old geezer Douglas still didn't answer the question:

"How did you make such straight lines in the darK?"

Keep us posted,

Linda

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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Andre Eichner)
Subject: Kontacts to Semjase in the "Schweiz"
Date: 1 Dec 91 19:54:00 GMT

Hello Clark!

I've got a very interesting script from a contact between a ufo-interest group
in the "Schweiz" and Semjase from the plejades in the year 1975.
I've read the book from Brad Steiger, "the fellow ship". In this book Brad
write about Fred Bell. I thing, he takes information from the scripts and some
additionals from his phantasy and makes his own reality (for busines or for his
"secret dreams" :-)

Did anybody got material from real contacts to Semjase or anyone from the
Plejades? The "schweizer" group claims, they have up to 100 Photos and a Film
from the ship's. I will check this in the next weeks...

cheers
   Andre
         +--------------------------------------------------------+
         | FidoNet-Berlin, the UFO information service in Berlin  |
         | FidoNet 2:245/10, GerNet 222:100/29, ParaNet 91:1021/2 |
         | [phone]  HST/V32/V42B  14.400 bps               |
         | Sysop: Andre Eichner                                   |
         +--------------------------------------------------------+
PS: Did you have a new modem now? With your old modem, I can't connect to your
system! I think, it's better to send some messages (in german language) via
crashmail, because the most in this area can't read and write german...

--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Andre Eichner)
Subject: Crop Circles: a hoax?
Date: 1 Dec 91 21:22:00 GMT

Hello Linda!

In a msg of <23 Nov 91>, Linda Bird writes to Andre Eichner:

 LB> Greetings from Arizona!  I would like to know what the German
 LB> newspapers had to say when the news came out of England about the two
 LB> elderly gentlemen who claimed to have made all those crop circles.

The title was "Kornkreis Phaenomen geloest..."
I have read, that the English gentlemen haven't make all the circles! I read
that the British government instructed the gentlemen to making the  some
additional crop circles to explain later that all crop circles was made from
them.
Inexplicable things are not good for the politicians.

I think, light will be come in some secret things of UFOs and secret projects
of the goverments, in the next year!

cheers
   Andre
         +--------------------------------------------------------+
         | FidoNet-Berlin, the UFO information service in Berlin  |
         | FidoNet 2:245/10, GerNet 222:100/29, ParaNet 91:1021/2 |
         | [phone]  HST/V32/V42B  14.400 bps               |
         | Sysop: Andre Eichner                                   |
         +--------------------------------------------------------+

--
Andre Eichner - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Kay Mclaughlin)
Subject: Re: Receipt Acknowledged
Date: 5 Dec 91 08:22:00 GMT


 JS> Thanks for the flyer, got it today. Have you been to that museum? I
 JS> think the AVRO car is also at the Smithsonian, isn't it?
 JS> Jim

I admit, I've been to the base probabally 20 times, and I always intended
to go, but by the time I finished work, and it was time to head home
(a three hour tour, a three hour tour) I booked!! I could see the
vehicle out of the corner of my eye on the way out, the museum is
outdoors. I intend to inspect it close up before I move from Virginia.
(it is in the Williamsburg, Newport News, Norfolk area)

Someone I work with told me that the "driver" had to stand up in it and
that the fan was below the "driver" in the center, which led to a few
accidents. (I have no clue as to whether this is BS or not)

I have been to thr Air and Space Museam several times and have not seen
it there, but next time I go, I'll take a look see. Anyone else here in
the "Monumental City" area see a Flying saucer in the Smithsonian?

I'm sorry to have kept you in suspense for a year, I asked for your
address a long long time ago! Sheesh, I travel too muck and
procrastinate.

Regards,
Kay


--
Kay Mclaughlin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Kay Mclaughlin)
Subject: Re: Crop circles
Date: 5 Dec 91 08:26:00 GMT


 KB> Despite the fact that South Australia is one of the world's largest
 KB> crop producing areas, and that crop harvesting has commenced early
 KB> here due to weather conditions, we have had nil reports of crop
 KB> circles. What to make of this?

Dave and Doug's frequent Flyer miles were on PAN AM and were cancelled?

Respectfully,
Kay

--
Kay Mclaughlin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Hrusovszky)
Subject: Re: The UFO Report
Date: 12 Dec 91 01:43:42 GMT


 JH> Does anyone have any information on when this will air?  And if not on
 JH> National TV, what satellite and transponder it may appear on?
 JH> Thanks in advance.

JS> That's already aired in this country, it was the one-hour Fox special.

Oh, [sheepish mode on] I guess I maybe missed it.



--
John Hrusovszky - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Hrusovszky)
Subject: Re: The Ufo Report
Date: 12 Dec 91 01:44:14 GMT

DE> John, the show aired October 18th, 1991 on the FOX Network. It was a
DE> co-production with Winkler and Ann Daniels Productions. It also as an
DE> had the highest share and rating in that time slot that Fox has ever
DE> received.

DE> We speak about it in the next issue of UFO Magazine.

Looking forward to it!



--
John Hrusovszky - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Mark Rodeghier)
Subject: Ufocat
Date: 12 Dec 91 12:08:01 GMT

Keith,

Sorry to take so long to get back to you.  I'm in the middle of
collecting data for my dissertation, plus doing some workshops on
statistical software, so I haven't had a chance to logon to PARANET.

Thanks for indicating that you will be working on UFOCAT in the
coming months.  I'll let Don Johnson know.  He is continuing to make
progress, and recently Dave Webb has agreed to send HumCat cases to
Don for inclusion in UFOCAT.

Interested to learn of the publication of UFORA information on
diskette.  We've considered such a practice here but wasn't sure the
market would support such a project, so I'm eager to learn more
about the project (and see the finished product).

Have a pleasant holiday season.
Mark
--
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INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Mark Rodeghier)
Subject: Delphos, Kansas Incident
Date: 12 Dec 91 12:20:02 GMT

You can obtain a copy of Volume I of the Journal of UFO Studies from
the Center for UFO Studies.  Contact us at 2547 W. Peterson Ave.,
Chicago, IL   60659, or give us a call on Saturdays at
(312)-631-6837.
                              Mark Rodeghier
--
Mark Rodeghier - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Re: Gb: Gulf Breeze Sighting. February 1991
Date: 12 Dec 91 15:26:00 GMT


 * Forwarded from "Alt.Alien.Visitors"
 * Originally from Robert Sheaffer
 * Originally dated 12-10-91 12:04

From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Date: 10 Dec 91 07:15:01 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic

Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert
Dinse) writes:
>>...  I have seen Venus many times.  It appears to me as almost white,
>>maybe slightly yellowish very bright, larger than a star, and it has never
>>turned red, green, blinked, or come visibly closer to me...
>
>Take a look at it when it's just rising or setting.  Although planets
>shine with a steady light, they can scintillate just like point sources
>if observed through a fair amount of convection.
>--
>                         [e-mail]

In the last few issues of Philip J. Klass' "Skeptics UFO Newsletter (SUN)",
there has been discussion of the "red light UFOs' being reported by
numerous persons in the Gulf Breeze area. In brief, it is apparent that
some hoaxer has been sending aloft road flares attached to a balloon.
The color, duration, and behavior of these red lights match exactly what
would be expected from a suspended balloon. Just recently, Dr. Bruce
Maccabee of MUFON, one of the staunchest supporters of the sightings and
photos by Ed Walters in Gulf Breeze, conceded to Klass that in several
recent instances, ground-based observers were able to see both the
flare, AND the balloon from which it is suspended.

"SUN" is available for $15/year from Philip J. Klass, 404 "N" St. S.W.,
Washington, DC 20024 USA.


--

  Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]
  Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I Do Not speak,
  Author of *utterly offensive* books!

--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Re:  Hidden Aliens???
Date: 12 Dec 91 15:28:00 GMT


 * Forwarded from "Alt.Alien.Visitors"
 * Originally from Dave Zecchini
 * Originally dated 12-10-91 18:06

From: [e-mail] (Dave Zecchini)
Date: 10 Dec 91 19:41:17 GMT
Organization: CompuServe Incorporated
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jim Shaffer) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Dave Zecchini) writes:
>>
>>I'd lay even money on there being Alien bodies at Wright Patterson Air Force
>>Base.
>>
>Even Barry Goldwater says he wasn't allowed to see certain areas!  However,
>I have a captured thread from Fidonet in which someone says that if they're
>there, which he doubts, they're not in Hangar 18.  (However, other sources
>refer to something called the Blue Room.)  And it's possible that the
>officials got tired of all the publicity and moved them elsewhere.  Jackie
>Gleason allegedly told one of his wives that there were alien bodies at
>Homestead AFB in Florida about 1972.  Of course, if there was more than one
>crash there could be more than one storage location.  I can't remember
>right now, did anyone ever establish where the Kecksburg object was taken?
>Wright-Patterson would've been convenient.
>

Well, as for secutiry at the Base, it's not particularly anything of note,
BUT this only counts the areas that you can SEE.  I was immensely shocked
to discover that they had about 5 different runways at Wright-Patterson,
because after 18 years of living there, I had only managed to see 3 from
ANY point on the surrounding area.

I had heard long ago that the bodies weren't located in Hangar 18, but that
they and the remainder of the items recovered from Roswell were actually on
the base.

Consider these two things, First, Wright-Patterson was for a LONG time the
home of a SAC Bomber wing.  Now, I don't know if any of you have been to Dayton
or have seen Wright Patterson, but I can tell you that the landscape does
NOT particularly lend itself well to supporting a large-scale operation that
this would require.  At least not ABOVE GROUND.

I know it seems ludicrous, but I had heard stories from LONG ago that the
majority of the equipment and the storage facilities were all underground.
BUT, considering the lack of space they have to contain all this, I can se it.

Second, Wright-Patterson has been the U.S. Air Force's BENCHMARK location
for research projects.  Every 5 years, they announce the fields that they wil
working on, be they advanced materials science, or propulsion technology.

But the military is CONSTANTLY downplaying it's significance in this regard.

I don't know for sure, but I'd say that a good deal of the money that the
government puts in there goes UNDERGROUND, and as a result, Wright-Patterson
can still come through with the breakthroughs, while keeping a very low
profile.

Well, it's worth a shot, at least...<g>

-Dave, Dave, That CompuServe Kinda Guy...

--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Re: Firsthand Account
Date: 12 Dec 91 15:33:00 GMT


 * Forwarded from "Alt.Alien.Visitors"
 * Originally from Ryk E Spoor
 * Originally dated 12-11-91 18:05

From: [e-mail] (Ryk E Spoor)
Date: 11 Dec 91 20:07:13 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors


        Time: a long time ago; 1974, fall, I believe. About 1 in the morning.

        Place: Latham, New York

        Events: The power in our house failed. My brother, at the time,
was scared of the dark, so I went to his room to keep him company. I
looked out the window and saw, against a ceiling of stratus clouds, what
J.Allen Hynek would call a Nocturnal Light. It was a bright white color,
the same as your average airplane headlight, BUT its spectral ratio was
different. I know this because I wear glasses and had taken to looking at
light sources through the edge of the glass; this caused a spectrum to
spray out from the source. This light's blue span was about twice as large
as that for an airplane light.
        The light was, I would estimate, 2.5-3 miles away, and was describing
a perfect circle of about 1/2 degree in size (the size of the full moon),
completing one orbit in about 2 seconds. It remained at 15 degrees or so above
the horizon. My brother saw it as well. We watched it for some considerable
time, perhaps 20 minutes. I went to get a glass of water and, on the way back,
looked out the hall window at it. I was in time to  see the object cease its
orbiting and take off across the sky at a tremendous rate, covering perhaps
60-90 degrees in a second.
        Within a few seconds of this, the power in our house came back on.
I make no claims as to whether there was actually any association between
the object and the power failure, but simply note it as another occurrence.

                                Sea Wasp

--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Ufo Cults
Date: 12 Dec 91 15:41:00 GMT


 * Forwarded from "Fido UFO Echo"
 * Originally from Patrick Briggs
 * Originally dated 12-09-91 12:09

After working with a little research project at the local libraries
archieves, I was interested to find a couple of articles in which a UFO
cult group seemed to be going nuts about October of 1975.  I was
originally intending on locating some news on the Travis Walton case for
November of 1975 but I couldn't locate that particular case in the
newspaper microfilm.  However, I did located these articles and right
smack in the middle of it was an editorial cartoon depicting a whole
crowd of people waiting to be picked up by a UFO.  Sounds like a nasty
case of wishful thinking back in 1975.

HEADLINE: Kidnaped after UFO cult show, radio man says

San Jose (AP) - Radio personality Victor Boc says his kidnaping
following a talk show about UFO cult was neither a hoax nor a publicity
stunt.
        "I had absolutely nothing to do with it.  I consider myself to
        have been threatened," declared Boc at a news conference
        Wednesday.

Boc was uninjured in the incident Sunday, when two men subdued him in
the building where KOME is located.  He escaped from his abductors
several hours later by baricading himself in a gas station restroom.
His abductors fled during the commotion.

Police, who say they believe Boc's story, have made no arrests.

Boc's three-hour show Sunday featured a taped interview with "The Two" -
leaders of a cult calling itself Human Individual Metamorphosis (HIM).

The Two, who claimed to be thousands of years old and come from a higher
order, reportedly promise converts that they will be transported by a
spaceship to that higher order. Some people reportedly have given up
their entire family and posessions to join HIM.

Boc, said the men subdued him by placing a cloth, dapped in a chemical,
over his nose and mouth.  He fell unconscious.

When he regained consciousness about three hours later, Boc said he was
in an auto en route to San Francisco with his abductors.

The men showed Boc a letter they intended to send to KOME, saying, "When
you next see Victor Boc, he will be a follower or our causes, and he
will not be the only one."

The note said more newsmen would be taken hostage, given proof that UFOs
exist, and then released, said Boc.

"We are an organisation with access to UFOs," Boc remembered the note as
saying.  "We have fist-hand knowlege that UFOs are real.  The Two are
who they say they are, and alien beings are here for out benefit."

The note was signed by "Worthy individuals Leaving Earth," Boc said.

He also said the note listed three demands for KOME, if the station
"wanted to see Boc again."

It told the station to take a "favorable stand" toward UFOs and give
wide publicity to a meeting scheduled in Oakland for The Two.  The
station was supposed to arrange a similar public meeting for The Two in
San Jose.

Boc said he remained silent about his experience until Wednesday at the
request of the police.

** END of Article
___
 X SLMR 2.0 X Press any key to continue or any other key to quit

--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Mutilated Cattle      1/
Date: 12 Dec 91 15:41:00 GMT


 * Forwarded from "Fido UFO Echo"
 * Originally from Patrick Briggs
 * Originally dated 12-09-91 12:09

Here is an article I found in the local newspaper dated Wednesday Oct
15, 1975 which ads some interesting info in regards to Cattle
Mutilations. However, these mutilated cattle in the article do not have
the characteristics in most of those cases.  These cattle were clearly
beaten as you shall find out. Also mysterious is the disappearance of
the campers without a trace.

Headline: Police say mutilated cattle found about time of UFO group in
vicinity.

Fox Lake, Ill (AP) -

Police say two cows were found slaughtered and mutilated about the same
time as a mysterious, 50-plus member of a "UFO" people apparently camped
nearby.

Lake Villa police said the animals' remains were left on a farm about 10
miles from here, where the band is believed to have stayed October 2 to
October 7.

One cow was found dead October 1st and the second was killed four days
later, police said.

Persons who left homes in Oregon, Colorado, and California to await
transportation from the Earth make up most of the group's membership.
Officials say scores of cattle mutilations have taken place in those
states.

Lake Villa Police Chief Al Copenharver said persons who killed the first
cow, a Black Angus beifer, left only its head behind.  The rest of the
carcases seemed to have been butchered by persons wanting meat,
Copenhaver said.

He said the second cow, a Holstein Beifer, looked as if it had been
beaten to death.  The animal's left ear had been severed and was not
found, he said.

In some of the mutilations in Western States, lips had been removed from
the cattle and their carcasses drained of all the blood.

The UFO cult is believed to have camped five days in the Chain O' Lakes
State Park 45 miles northwest of Chicago, rangers said Tuesday.

"A group of about 50 persons took out camping permits on Oct. 2 and
suddenly disappeared Oct. 7" said Mick Egan, chief park ranger at Chain
O' Lakes.

"It was about that time that the story broke about some 20 persons
disappearing in Oregon to await time to leave Earth on a spaceship," he
said.

Egan said a man used the name "J. Seagle, Cherry Creed, California." in
signing a camping permit on Oct 2.  The man said other would follow.

"They came in vans and cars bearing license plates from Texas,
California, Washington, Colorado and Oregon," said Egan.  "We thought it
was very unusual, because travelers from those areas just don't show up
here at this time of year at all.  They wanted the cheapest camping
spots and seemed strapped for money.  They were evasive and kept to
themselves.  My patrolmen said some of them used Biblical names."

Charlene Petrovic and her husband of Waukegan were camping at the park
when the group was there.

"They didn't look or act like campers at all," said Mrs. Petrovic.
"They kept to themselves, sitting around together and doing nothing.  On
October 6 when the story was out about people vanishing in Oregon, the
group got very excited.  They milled around the ranger office and I
heard a boy say: "I knew I made a mistake when I wrote my mother from
Colorado to tell her I joined the group.  The next day they were all
gone - not a trace.  It was if they simply were sucked off the Earth.
All there junk was still at the campsites."

A license check by the Oregonian with Oregon and California motor
vehicle divisions in Oregon and California indicates the cars at the
Illinois camp were driven by people with assumed names, or by drivers
other than their owners.

- A 1967 Rambler driven by a man giving the name "A Smith" is really
registered to Rodney H. Adams, Newport Oregon.

- A 1969 Pontiac operated by a man using the name "J. Simon" is
registered to John M. and M. Craig, Bandon, Oregon.

- A 1970 Volkswagen driven by a man using the name "D. Abel" is
registered to John and Helen Wilson, Bandon, Oregon.

- A 1952 International allegedly belonging to "M. Daniels" is registered
to Suzanne Cooke, Point Reyes, California.

- A 1964 Ford driven by "J. Stell" is registered to Paul Charles Groll,
Milpitas, California.
>>> Continued to next message
___
 X SLMR 2.0 X Unable to locate Coffee -- Operator Halted!

--
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UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to********
                      'infopara' at the following address:

UUCP  {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom!infopara
DOMAIN  [e-mail]

 For administrative requests (subscriptions, back issues) send to:

UUCP            {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom!infopara-request
DOMAIN          [e-mail]
 To obtain back issues by anonymous ftp, connect to:

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Mail to private Paranet/Fidonet addresses from the newsletters:
DOMAIN  [e-mail]
UUCP  scicom!paranet.org!firstname.lastname

******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************

                Info-ParaNet Newsletters   Volume I  Number 513

                          Tuesday, December 17th 1991

Today's Topics:

                            Mutilated Cattle      2/
                                     (none)
                                     (none)
                            Raf Bentwaters/woodbridge
                          Re: Raf Bentwaters/woodbridge
                                   Omni ONLINE
                                  Ray Stanford
                            Delphos, Kansas Incident
                                Re: Ufo Magazine
                                      Ogden
                            Raf Bentwaters/woodbridge
                          Re: Raf Bentwaters/woodbridge
                                Re: UFO MAGAZINE
                                    Implants
                               Richard Price tape
                                   Kidd Drive
                                Re: Welcome back!
                            Re: Crop Circles: a hoax?
                            Re: UFO BOOK ON COMPUTER
                          Re: Raf Bentwaters/woodbridge
                            Raf Bentwaters/woodbridge
                                   Kidd Drive
                            CUFOS Abduction Videotape

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Mutilated Cattle      2/
Date: 12 Dec 91 15:42:00 GMT


 * Forwarded from "Fido UFO Echo"
 * Originally from Patrick Briggs
 * Originally dated 12-09-91 12:09

>>> Continued from previous message
- A 1971 Ford camper, operated by a "B.L. Chrisensen" is registered to
Dale F. Mackey of Los Angeles, California.

** END OF ARTICLE.
___
 X SLMR 2.0 X Unable to locate Coffee -- Operator Halted!

--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: ecn.purdue.edu!lush
Subject: (none)
Date: 13 Dec 91 04:26:12 GMT

From: [e-mail] (Gregory B Lush)

?  Subject:  EARLY AMERICANS
?  Date: 5 Dec 91 18:33:45 GMT
?
?  From: [e-mail]
?
?  From: wam.umd.edu!infinity
?  + In July or August 1989 a French anthropological or archaeological journal
?  + published or reviewed a study by a Brazilian archaeologist/anthropologist
?  + concerning remains in northern Brazil dated by thermoluminescence to
?  + be 300,000 years old. This came on the heels of a discovery in the Mojave
?  + Desert, which was at the time quite controversial, concerning 270,000 year
?  + old evidence of human habitation. I have been unable to find the journal,
?  + as I got my information from a news periodical I should have photocopied.
?  -- MORE--
?
?
?  Have you seen the book _American_Genesis_ by the-name-escapes-me?
?

Are you talking about 'American Genesis: a century of invenstion and
technological enthusiasm, 1870-1970' ?

By Thomas Parke Hughes ?

Greg ([e-mail])





--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: ecn.purdue.edu!lush
Subject: (none)
Date: 13 Dec 91 04:26:35 GMT

From: [e-mail] (Gregory B Lush)


? In 1903 the eminent American astronomer Simon Newcomb 'proved' on paper
? that heavier-than-air flight was a mathematical impossibility. Later that
? year the Wright brothers flew a Kitty Hawk.
?
? David E. Coleman    [e-mail]

This reminds me of a story a friend is fond of telling me where
scientists proved that bumble bees cannot fly.

Greg ([e-mail])





--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (James Hudnall)
Subject: Raf Bentwaters/woodbridge
Date: 13 Dec 91 04:57:01 GMT

Who I write for depends on who I sell to, but my main source of income is
writing comic books. Mind you, these comic books are not like what you
probably expect. Comics have changed dramatically in the last ten years.
What I write are stories aimed mainly at an adult audience. My work is
mostly political SF thrillers. My latest series is called THE PSYCHO and
it's about paranormal spies. I'm well known in my field for Espers and Lex
Luthor: The Unauthorized Biography.

I'm starting to work in Hollywood now on films and I'm also working on a
novel.

Thanks for asking.

--
James Hudnall - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (James Hudnall)
Subject: Re: Raf Bentwaters/woodbridge
Date: 13 Dec 91 05:05:02 GMT


        Uh, what report did your husband write? Something on Bentwaters?

        My feelings on UFOs tend to lean in the John Keel, Jaques Vallee,
Tim Holiday direction of them being some kind of paranormal manefestation
that is capable of transmitting virtual reality experiences to the human
brain. Therefore, my Bentwaters stories (I'll get them written soon) make
sense, since they are mostly of the ghost/MIB variety. If Keel and co. are
correct in their elemental theories, these paranormal events preceeding the
UFO flap there substantiatesa "trend" of sorts.

        I've recently heard another tale from a friend which is pretty damn
scary. I'll upload that at some point, also.

--
James Hudnall - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Omni ONLINE
Date: 12 Dec 91 15:45:24 GMT

In a message to Jim Speiser <10 Dec 91 21:12> Michael Schuyler wrote:


 MS> Jim, CUFON is back up and running with a Seattle-area BBS with
 MS> files only and refuses ANY echo mail connection. [phone]
 MS> is the number. I've talked with him on the phone a coupla times;
 MS> rather, I listened to him on the phone a coupla times. His main
 MS> thing is to get Congress to open an investigation.
 MS> --Michael


Good 'ol Dale...still holdin' out against the world...

Jim

--
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UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Ray Stanford
Date: 12 Dec 91 19:50:06 GMT

In a message to All <08 Dec 91 11:50> Bill Chalker UFORA Associ wrote:

 BCUA> A number of years ago Ray Stanford's PSI group announced it had
 BCUA> some UFO spectra for which they were seeking funds to study.
 BCUA> Ray's group broke up.  I did bump into him at the Washington
 BCUA> MUFON conference in 1987, but unfortunately there was only time
 BCUA> for a hello and little else.
 BCUA> Now Ray has had an extremely varied career.  I was a member for a
 BCUA> while of the AUM group, which published his "Source" material -
 BCUA> ahead of his time given the current in vogue channelling  craze.
 BCUA> But it was Ray's PSI activities that interested me the most.
 BCUA> I gather Ray is now resident in Washington DC area.
 BCUA> The reason I'm asking is that I have a University associate here
 BCUA> in Australia with a specific interest in UFO spectra and who
 BCUA> would be willing to examine credible evidence for UFO spectra.
 BCUA> Now, I cant believe or hope that the spectra has not been
 BCUA> examined by now by some hopefully responsible crowd in the US but
 BCUA> I have not heard anything about it.  Besides this side of it I
 BCUA> would like to renew contact with Ray.
 BCUA> Thanks in advance for anyone who can help.
 BCUA> I saw recently ghe had helped Bob Oechsler in Washington/Maryland
 BCUA> investigations!!!
 BCUA> Regards, Bill Chalker.

Bill:

Wasn't that Project Starlight International? I don't know what their status is,
but I know someone who would. Contact Dale Goudie at CUFON in Seattle. Don't
have his number handy, but its in the 206 area.

I just realized I met you in person at the 87 MUFON conference. We shared an
elevator in the Bethesda Holiday Inn!

Jim

--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Delphos, Kansas Incident
Date: 13 Dec 91 00:14:17 GMT

In a message to All <11 Dec 91 18:05> ncar!cwns5.INS.CWRU.Edu!x wrote:


 nc> A person on the Cleveland Free-Net UFOlogy Sig has asked me about
 nc> the Delphos, Kansas incident and would like to obtain an article
 nc> on this which was in the Journal of UFO Studies, New Series, Vol.
 nc> 1, 1989.

 nc> If anyone has this article or could upload it to me, it would be
 nc> appreciated.  Or if you could tell me where I can write for it, that
 nc> also would be appreciated.

Hi Dale!

The article in question is by Dr. Erol A. Faruk, a chemist. It is called "The
Delphos Case: Soil Analysis and Appraisal of a CE-2 Report." I can type up the
abstract, but your best bet is to get the publication - no ufologist should be
without it. It's $15 from CUFOS, 2457 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL 60659.

Abstract follows:

     Three members of a farming family claim to have witnessed an unusual
luminescent object hovering over their land. After departing, the soil over
which the object allegedly hovered was found to have undergone considerable
physical and chemical change, the effects of which lasted for several months
afterwards. Subsequent chemical analysis of the soil provided data which
virtually discounts any hoax interpretation and even goes a considerable way to
corroborating the witnesses' testimony. A plea is made for a conclusive
analysis involving the identification of a single unstable compound which just
might provide evidence of a genuine UFO-related event occurring at Delphos.

Jim

--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Don Ecker)
Subject: Re: Ufo Magazine
Date: 12 Dec 91 07:06:00 GMT

Linda Bird asked:

 > Can't wait to see the newest issue!
 >
 > Isn't this the one with the interview with Z. Sitchin, too?  <O boy!>

Yep sure is Linda. And more from Sitchin to follow in future issues.

Best;

Don

--
Don Ecker - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Ogden
Date: 13 Dec 91 20:57:00 GMT

>WPC<> * Origin: Unknown - Appended by IMAIL 1.0 (9:1040/7)
>371/3
Hi Sheldon,
The above is all there was of your message to me...maybe it'll be in
another message, but there would appear to be some kind of
transmission problem somewhere along the line.  Only thing that
showed up in the mssg I received here on ParaNet Alpha's Mail was
the origin line.  If the message shows up in another place and you
get an answer from me, ignore this; if not, please repost.  Thank
you.
                        ==Peggy==
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Raf Bentwaters/woodbridge
Date: 13 Dec 91 14:20:11 GMT

In a message to Jim Speiser <12 Dec 91 21:57> James Hudnall wrote:

 JH> paranormal spies. I'm well known in my field for Espers and Lex
 JH> Luthor: The Unauthorized Biography.

 JH> I'm starting to work in Hollywood now on
 JH> films and I'm also working on a novel.



You lucky guy...sounds like you're doing exactly what I would like to be doing,
if I had the opportunity....


Jim

--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Steve Rose)
Subject: Re: Raf Bentwaters/woodbridge
Date: 13 Dec 91 23:12:00 GMT


 JH> in my field for Espers and Lex Luthor: The Unauthorized Biography.
 JH> I'm starting to work in Hollywood now on films and I'm also working on
 JH> a novel.

Hey...I happen to have enjoyed 'The ESPers'...but I never got into that
L. Luthor thingy.  :)




--
Steve Rose - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Pete Porro)
Subject: Re: UFO MAGAZINE
Date: 12 Dec 91 17:29:32 GMT

Still looking for that file I promised you last week. After that, "the check
is in the mail"...
--
Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Implants
Date: 13 Dec 91 03:50:00 GMT

Hi Peggy, You should be receiving a bag of "goodies" from "Down Under"
about the same time as this message. Happy reading.

--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: Richard Price tape
Date: 14 Dec 91 08:23:00 GMT


 > tape if you'd send the address.  Now I see that I've also had
 > another message of nearly identical content from Keith
 > Basterfield, also of Australia, and also Origin Lined: UFO
 > Research Australia, but hwere yours says UFORA Associate VIC,
 > his says Research Officer.  His netmail address is 9:1040/12
 > while yours is listed as 9:1040/15.

Hi Peggy,

Seeing that you are somewhat confused about two "Keiths", I hope you
won't mind if I answer your message.

UFO Research Australia operates as a network of individual UFO
researchers and groups in all Australian States. HQ and
Administration are based in Cairns, Far North Queensland. I don't
know whether you've seen a message I posted recently on Paranet re
UFORA moving from South Australia to Queensland. I am Administrator
and I live now in Cairns, KEITH BASTERFIELD is UFORA Research Officer
and he lives in South Australia (that is where I used to live until a
month ago).

KEITH SONERSON is a UFORA Associate and (we have associates in all
Australian States) he lives in VICTORIA. He is also coordinator for
our UFORA Victorian Branch.  So you have two "Keiths" with similar
Christian names but different surnames.

I run Paranet/UFORA which is a private computer network for UFORA
associates only (not for general public). Currently we have seven
associates on this network. Both "KEITHS" are on this computer
network.  Keith Basterfield is 1040/12 and Keith Sonerson is 1040/15.

As it hapened both of them requested that tape from you.
I thought I'd send you a reply because Keith Sonerson did not poll me
last Thursday (associates poll me twice a week) and therefore did not
see your message. He'll probably poll me on Sunday.
Regards,
Vlad

--
Vladimir Godic - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: violet.berkeley.edu!chalmers
Subject: Kidd Drive
Date: 14 Dec 91 14:31:18 GMT

From: [e-mail] (John H. Chalmers Jr.)

 The Kidd anti-gravity drive mentioned in  David Coleman's
post of a couple of days ago strongly resembles the Dean Drive
that John Campbell, the editor of Astounding/Analog SF magazine,
championed  in the late 1950's.  Both claimed to produce a
'one way push,' both had parts moving in circular paths,
and both were supposed to be usable as spaceship drives.
 As I remember, Dean's device  did not use gyroscopes, but
had rotating weights on a platform that could be pulled upwards
by a solenoid.  The idea is that if the  parts moved fast
enough, the device  could always stay ahead of the equal and
opposite reaction.
 Dean developed a theory (published as a 'science-fact
article' in Astounding) that his device operated by a
 hypothetical force he called 'intractance' which was
proportional to the third time derivative of position
(velocity is the first, acceleration the second).  Conventional
 physicists and engineers call this quantity 'rate of onset'
or 'jerk' (or used to; I may be out-of date on
my engineering terminology), but recognize no forces
dependent upon its value.
 As with Kidd, some industrial firms took Dean seriously for
a while, but lost interest when he never could produce a really
functional prototype. The  working models had always been
'tested to destruction.' The ones seen by the public would bounce
around on the platform of a scale and seem to loose weight, but
that apparently was an illusion due to the mechanical vibrations.
 Dean appeared to be a true believer in his device and
not a fraud or con artist.
 Campbell proposed installing a large Dean Drive  in an
atomic submarine and converting it into a spaceship. This idea
provoked a lot of mirth from SF writers and fans and inspired
at least one satirical song.  Campbell also held many other
heterodox ideas and opinions, including a belief in psionics as it
was embodied in the Hieronymous Machine.
 As editor of Astounding, later called Analog, however,
he was chiefly responsible for developing modern science fiction
as a true literary genre and he strongly influenced major writers
such as Robert Heinlein during the 'Golden Age' of SF in the late
1930's.
--- John




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Welcome back!
Date: 15 Dec 91 03:38:00 GMT

Hi Vlad,

Thanks for information on your new region.  I remember reading about
the flattened area in the swamp.

When you go out driving at night, be careful!  (Take your bug spray!)

Best,

Linda

<Vlad to himself:  "Now what does she mean: 'Take your bug spray?'">

<Linda:  They say the aliens look like bugs/insects....>

s

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Crop Circles: a hoax?
Date: 15 Dec 91 03:44:00 GMT

Hallo Andre,

You said that you think some things about UFO's will come to light next
year.  Do you suspect the German government is hiding some secrets?  If
so, do you have some clue/ideas as to what they are hiding?  My friends
in Bielefeld don't appear to ever hear UFO stories in Germany -- only
in the USA and a few other places.

Thank you,nd Frohliche Weinachten!

Linda

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: UFO BOOK ON COMPUTER
Date: 15 Dec 91 03:54:00 GMT

Hi Bill,

We'll be waiting to see how to purchase this in U$ dollar$.

Thanks!

Linda

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Raf Bentwaters/woodbridge
Date: 15 Dec 91 04:25:00 GMT

Hi James,

Yes, my husband wrote a very skeptical report on Bentwaters, based
99% on the recent TV special a few months ago.  He glanced at a couple
of books here, but like MOST skeptics, did not really do his homework
and READ any further.  In my opinion, he also asked a lot of impossible
questions.  <I don't think much of his research methods; and he should
know better with an M.S. in engineering!>

Mike Corbin has a copy of the report and may post parts of it.

Thanks for your inquiry,

Linda



--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Raf Bentwaters/woodbridge
Date: 15 Dec 91 07:18:49 GMT

In a message to James Hudnall <14 Dec 91 21:25> Linda Bird wrote:

 LB> Hi James,

 LB> Yes, my husband wrote a very skeptical report on Bentwaters, based
 LB> 99% on the recent TV special a few months ago.  He glanced at a
 LB> couple of books here, but like MOST skeptics, did not really do
 LB> his homework and READ any further.  In my opinion, he also asked
 LB> a lot of impossible questions.  <I don't think much of his
 LB> research methods; and he should know better with an M.S. in engineering!>

Linda:

I wouldn't write Birdie off so fast...his questions are important ones, and
NEEDED to be asked. It IS a little interesting that John didn't make an all
out effort to look at the ground impressions, for instance.

Tell Loren that John will be responding soon. And I *WILL* call you tomorrow,
I promise!

Jim


--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Kidd Drive
Date: 15 Dec 91 07:32:49 GMT

In a message to All <14 Dec 91 12:05> ncar!violet.berkeley.edu! wrote:

 nc> or 'jerk' (or used to; I may be out-of date on
 nc> my engineering terminology), but recognize no forces


It was still called "jerk" as of my 12th grade physics class (1974).



 nc> heterodox ideas and opinions, including a belief in psionics as it
 nc> was embodied in the Hieronymous Machine.


What the heck is the Hieronymous Machine?



 nc>        As editor of Astounding, later called Analog, however,
 nc> he was chiefly responsible for developing modern science fiction
 nc> as a true literary genre and he strongly influenced major writers
 nc> such as Robert Heinlein during the 'Golden Age' of SF in the late
 nc> 1930's.

And don't forget Asimov!

Jim

--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Mark Rodeghier)
Subject: CUFOS Abduction Videotape
Date: 15 Dec 91 13:15:01 GMT

In the spirit of Bill Chalker's recent post concerning the new Australian UFO
book on computer diskette, I wanted to make everyone  in this forum aware of
the newly-produced Center for UFO Studies videotape on the abduction
phenomenon.

The tape is about 85 minutes in length and includes interviews with Budd
Hopkins, John Mack from Harvard, Mike Swords, myself, Jerry Clark, and Eddie
Bullard.  It also contains original interviews with Betty Hill and Walter
Webb, who was the original investigator on the Hill case.

The tape is broken into segments, and the first is on the history of CEIII
cases, including the contactee phenomenon.  The producers we worked with
to complete the tape, WPA, obtained unique archival footage of UFO early
UFO conventions, including the fabled Giant Rock meeting in California.
I particularly enjoyed these portions of the tape.

The emphasis in the tape is on a serious discussion of the abduction
phenomenon, and all sides of the issue are presented by the various
participants.  I'm sure I'm biased because of my involvement, but I do
believe that this is the most sober, rational treatment of abduction
reports that has ever been produced on video.

The tape is available for $23.00, postage paid, from CUFOS.  In case you don't
have our address, it's 2457 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago, IL   60659.  Phone
312-271-3611.

We are in the midst of producing three additional tapes as part of a video
series on the UFO phenomenon.  Consequently, we'd be most interested in
comments from those who purchase the tape about content, use of visuals,
graphics, and so forth.  You can direct them to me either on Paranet or
directly to CUFOS.

I'll think you'll like the tape, and so will your UFO-interested friends.
It would be a great stocking stuffer.

Thanks for reading this note, and seasons greetings.     Mark Rodeghier
--
Mark Rodeghier - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to********
                      'infopara' at the following address:

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DOMAIN  [e-mail]

 For administrative requests (subscriptions, back issues) send to:

UUCP            {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom!infopara-request
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******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************

                Info-ParaNet Newsletters   Volume I  Number 514

                           Friday, December 20th 1991

Today's Topics:

                     Jerry Clark/Jacques Vallee/Revelations
                        Clark/Vallee/Revelations - Part 2
                                 Vallee Responds
               300,000 year-old human remains in Brazil: a caution
                          Re: Mutilated Cattle      1/
                             Ray Stanford's Address
                          Missing Mystery Object 1991VG
               This 'UFO' magazine that you are all discussing ...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Moderator's Note:  This will be the last issue until the first week in Jan. 92
I don't want to fill any mailboxes up this year.
Ohmahkah hoehyahpe haydonhon Wah Shoongtokcha, Noopah Mahtohs hayhon
ohwahs'eenah ohyahteh k'chee Alpha C. D. Corp.
Season Greating from Snow Wolf, Two Bears and all the people with
Alpha C. D. Corp.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Jerry Clark/Jacques Vallee/Revelations
Date: 15 Dec 91 17:48:00 GMT

Recently, Jacques Vallee published his latest book, Revelations.  Sure to
create a stir within the ufological community, Jerry Clark, editor of the IUR,
reviewed Jacques' book.  Below, we have reprinted the article Jerry wrote, and
following this, we have reprinted a rebuttal which Jacques has provided.

Editorial

SOMEBODY MUST BE BEHIND IT

Reprinted  with  permission  of the IUR  to  ParaNet  Information
Service.  (C) 1991 by the J. Allen Hynek Center for UFO  Studies,
2457 West Peterson Avenue, Chicago, Illinois  60659.  All  Rights
Reserved.

From September/October 1991, Volume 16, Number 5.

On  September  7 and 8, at a conference in Sydney,  Australia,  I
delivered a two-part lecture which dealt in part with  conspiracy
theories  in  historical  and current ufology.  After  the  first
lecture  a  woman  approached me to say that she  would  have  to
listen  to the second before deciding whether or not I am  a  CIA
agent. In the middle of that final lecture, as I was making light
of  Milton  William  Cooper's  leave-your-brains-at-the-door-and-
believe  yarns  about a secret government and its  alliance  with
malevolent  extraterrestrials,  a  man  in  the  audience   began
shouting and demanding that I shut up.
   Another  lecturer,  our  old friend Bill  Chalker,  was  asked
during  the  question-and-answer session if it was true  that  he
works  for the CIA. I thought this was pretty funny, but  Chalker
was not amused. He told me later that the charge was being  made,
indeed  had even been published, by Australia's Cooperists;  what
concerned  him was the possibility that witnesses in  future  UFO
cases might hear of it and refuse to speak with him--certainly  a
legitimate concern.
   Conspiracy  delirium  has  afflicted  Australia,  though   the
illness seems to have been contracted by exposure, I am sorry  to
say, to my own country. It's not just that the writings of Cooper
and John Lear circulate widely within the New Age community,  but
an expatriate American who claims to be an "escapee from the CIA"
(as someone described him to me) feeds the paranoia with his  own
stories,   for  which  as  always  no  supporting   evidence   is
forthcoming.  In  our time it is secret documents one  has  seen,
rather  than Space Brothers one has met, that comprise the  stuff
of fantasies and hoaxes.
   Not, of course, that conspiracy obsessions are ufodom's alone.
Not by a long shot. As a news junkie I wake up every morning  and
switch on cable television's C-Span, which hosts a show on  which
politicians, officials, pundits, and journalists take calls  from
viewers. The subject, of course, is never UFOs, but on some  days
as many as one caller in three seems to subscribe to some variety
of conspiracy theory. Now that Communism, happily, is fading from
the  world  scene and so, incidentally, from a  leading  role  in
conspiratorial scenarios, the principal suspects have become  the
CIA (the focus of all evil in the solar system, as we all  know),
"the  media"  (believed to be a monolithic entity  with,  in  one
caller's  words,  a  "definite agenda"-which is  to  promote  the
interests  of, depending on who's on the phone, the right or  the
left  end  of the political spectrum), and the Israelis  (or,  as
some callers unsubtly express it, thereby tipping us off to their
real views, "the Jews").
   I  happened  to  remark  on  the  peculiar  proliferation   of
conspiracy beliefs in a conversation with Barry Williams and  Tim
Mendham, two genial representatives of Australian Skeptics,  down
under's  equivalent of CSICOP. Affecting a darkly  conspiratorial
expression,  Mendham  declared,  "Somebody must  be  behind  it!"
Mendham's  wisecrack  came back to me as I  was  reading  Jacques
Vallee's  new  Revelations:  Alien Contact  and  Human  Deception
(Ballantine Books), the ultimate conspiracy book. Vallee's thesis
can  be  summed up thus: Conspirators  are  inventing  conspiracy
theories to mask the real conspiracy.
   Revelations  is a sequel to Vallee's 1979 book  Messengers  of
Deception,  which proposed that a shadowy group  of  intelligence
operatives  is  manipulating UFO beliefs and creating  phony  UFO
encounters  in  an effort to direct  societal  consciousness.  An
early,  less elaborate version of this notion was  circulated  in
the  1950s  and  1960s by a  former  government  scientist,  Leon
Davidson.   Davidson  thought  that   CIA   psychological-warfare
specialists posing as space people had fooled George Adamski  and
other  contactees. In Messengers Vallee advances essentially  the
same  idea,  though  without  crediting  Davidson;  also,  unlike
Davidson,  he believes that a real UFO phenomenon,  supernatural,
perhaps  unknowable, but certainly not  extraterrestrial,  exists
beyond the manipulation.
   In  common  with  his other works of  the  last  two  decades,
Revelations is an interesting book even if it is not a good  one.
Vallee is no profound thinker, but no one would deny that he is a
first-rate storyteller. Anyone who enjoys tales from the fringes-
and  who doesn't?-will have great fun with the chapters  on  UMMO
and  on  Franck  Fontaine's  bogus  abduction.  Vallee's  deadpan
account of his dinner with Bill Cooper is hilarious. And he shows
admirable  good  sense when he takes after  paranoid  ufologists'
traditional anxieties about tapped phones and CIA  assassinations
of those who know too much about flying saucers.
    What he himself believes, alas, is hardly less crazy. Much of
his  problem  is that he has a hard  time  entirely  disbelieving
anybody.  To  Vallee even those whom others have had  no  trouble
identifying  as crude charlatans are "sincere." To those  who  do
not see a conspiracy everywhere, it is quite easy to accept  that
somebody  might  peddle tales of man-eating aliens--or  of  Space
Brothers  or  of  ETs  in our midst-simply  to  fatten  the  bank
account, to gratify the ego, to fool the gullible, or to feed any
other  unworthy  but  recognizable human  impulse.  There  is  no
reason,  logically or evidentially, to suspect these hoaxers  are
some  other hoaxer's victims. But if one wishes, with Vallee,  to
indulge  in conspiratorial musings, then the contactees  and  the
Cooperists  really  had  an  experience  (with  actors  in  alien
outfits)   or  really  saw  a  secret  document  (contrived   for
disinformation purposes), even if to get there one has to  ignore
clear and specific evidence that the claimants are lying  through
their teeth.

<<Continued in next message..>>

--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Clark/Vallee/Revelations - Part 2
Date: 15 Dec 91 17:49:00 GMT

<<..Continued from previous message>>

    Vallee  drags the Cergy-Pontoise tale--a confessed hoax  yet-
into the conspiracy. In this instance, he writes, the agents were
"beings  of  flesh  and  blood within  the  French  military  and
technological  establishment." How does Vallee know this? He  has
it  from  a  nameless source who claims to have  spoken  with  an
anonymous bureaucrat in the French Ministry of Defense.
   This,  by the way, is the same Vallee who complains  (on  page
76)  of Len Stringfield's habit of citing anonymous sources.  Yet
anonymous  sources, making claims in some ways as  incredible  as
those    who   tell   Stringfield   of   crashed   saucers    and
extraterrestrial  autopsies, abound in Revelation's  pages.  Some
instances: (l) "[A]ntiterrorist exercises in which the  attackers
disguised  their craft as a flying saucer have actually been  run
more  than once," which explains cases cited by "amateur  groups"
as  "proof  that extraterrestrials are  surveying  our  strategic
assets."  Source:  "men who were trained in  the  penetration  of
nuclear  plants  and  missile bases," none named.  (2)  There  is
evidence  that  the  "UMMO group" is linked  with  the  "LaRouche
extremist  movement in France." Source:  "French  investigators,"
none named. (3) During Desert One, the failed April 1980  attempt
to  rescue American hostages in Iran, a "disk resembling  a  UFO"
was  seen. "It was said to be a platform for  nonlethal  weapons,
intended  to paralyze or otherwise disable the  Iranian  guards."
The  "code word for that part of the operation, of which  Richard
Secord  and  Oliver North had been among the planners,  was  none
other  than  Snowbird,"  a  name  that  appears  in  recent  UFO-
conspiracy lore. Source: "some witnesses," none named.
    Even   as  he  complains  of  "eager  believers  [who]   have
fabricated   fanciful  explanations  out  of  whole  cloth,"   he
breathlessly  spins theories out of what appears to be  the  same
material. He enlists UMMO in the conspiracy, even as he  mentions
in passing the more prosaic findings of two Spanish investigators
(actually  named)  who  have uncovered  evidence  suggesting  the
supposedly  extraterrestrial writings were forged by  individuals
(also named) associated with a Spanish contactee group. Poor Carl
Meredith  Allen (aka Carlos Miguel Allende) is  resurrected  from
the  Saucerian  boneyard, and we are to believe  that  Morris  K.
Jessup's  suicide was in some way-here as elsewhere in  the  text
Vallee  is  vague on details connected with  the  conspiracy.  In
fact,  from  every available indication  Jessup's  suicide,  like
James  McDonald's, had nothing to do with his UFO  interests  and
everything  to  do with his personal problems. As for  Allen,  if
Vallee  had read Robert A. Goerman's article in the October  1980
issue  of Fate--evidently he has never heard of it-we would  have
been spared this further exploitation of this sad character.
   Vallee  is  brought  to Norton Air Force  Base  to  learn  UFO
"secrets"  from two men whom even he recognizes as no  more  than
naive saucer buffs. Yet when one tells of a desert meeting with a
landed  UFO some years earlier, Vallee cannot resist  speculating
that  the  occupants were American agents of the  conspiracy-  He
does  not  think to ask why the U.S. government would go  to  the
considerable trouble and expense of building an advanced aircraft
and training pilots to act like space people simply to dazzle one
obscure individual who would never publicize the experience.
    I  suppose that something like this would happen, but  if  we
are  to believe it did, Vallee will have to produce the  relevant
evidence.  But  evidence is the one  element  most  conspicuously
missing   here--as,   one  might  add,  in   all   UFO-conspiracy
literature. In the end, though he is sincerer and saner than most
other current conspiracy theorists, he gives us no more reason to
believe  him  than  they do. Vallee has little  to  offer  beyond
unnamed  informants and a ufological revisionism which offers  us
speculation  and  imagination in place of reason  and  substance.
There   is  nothing  remotely  like  the  documentation  a   true
investigative journalist would have nailed down before he wrote a
book  as  loaded  with bizarre  and  implausible  allegations  as
Vallee's.
   According  to Vallee, UFO beliefs are so  spiritually  charged
that  they  are actually changing society, and that  is  why  the
conspirators use them to manipulate us to some end or other about
which  Vallee is characteristically obscure. In fact,  UFOs  were
trivialized and marginalized long ago, and outside ufology, which
Vallee  apparently  has  mistaken for the real  world,  they  are
visible,  and even there not consistently so, mostly  in  popular
culture, along with rap music, soap operas, supermarket tabloids,
miniskirts,   and  other  ephemera.  As  a  vehicle  for   social
transformation  UFOs  are  just about the  last  thing  any  sane
conspirator would choose.
   A  more  interesting  question is why  and  how  a  phenomenon
potentially  so significant has come to appear to most people  to
be  of no consequence whatever. Maybe that's where we'll  uncover
the  conspiratorial  machinations, if we are determined  to  find
them.  Other, less sinister explanations come to  mind,  however,
and  some can be found in less exciting but  more  intellectually
fulfilling books and papers by sociologists of science.
    Of  course,  if  we  were to follow  the  logic  of  Vallee's
argument, why confine the conspiracy to the UFO era? If we  don't
let  a dearth of evidence for a conspiracy stop us, there  is  no
stopping  us.  What is to keep us from concluding,  for  example,
that Richard Shaver was not a nut, as generally assumed, but  the
victim  of a mind-control experiment which led him to believe  he
met alien creatures underneath the earth in the 1930s and  1940s?
And what about 19th-Century Spiritualist mediums? Were they, too,
victims of the conspiracy? After all, Spiritualism had a far more
marked  effect on Victorian culture than flying saucers have  had
on  our own. A medium is even said to have  encouraged  President
Lincoln to emancipate the slaves.
    But if one has no compelling desire to drop into a black hole
of unreason, one can but reflect that hoaxes, delusions, visions,
and  strange  occurrences  have  always  been  a  part  of  human
experience, and since the UFO era has been lived by human beings,
why  should  we expect it to be different? Why should  not  weird
tales  circulate  in  our  time?  In  the  absence  of  evidence,
conspiracy  theories  of  the sort  Vallee  proposes  simply  are
unnecessary.
   And yet, from time to time, Vallee touches on real issues. The
Holloman Air Force Base affair, which concerns an apparently real
film  of  what  is supposed to be a  meeting  between  government
scientists and aliens, is a puzzle. So are the Bennewitz episode,
the  MJ-12  briefing  document, and related  matters.  Vallee  is
surely  correct, though he is hardly the first so to argue,  that
these amount to evidence both of a strange psychological  warfare
experiment  and  (at  least  where  Bennewitz  is  concerned)  of
egregious  official  misconduct.  But to  extrapolate  a  massive
conspiracy from these small elements is simply to excuse  oneself
from  the  ranks  of  those  who have  a  serious  claim  on  our
attention.
   Throughout the text Vallee vents his spleen, as he did in  his
previous book Confrontations, on those ufologists who  perversely
insist  on  thinking  for  themselves even in  the  face  of  his
repeated  offers  to do it for them. His books could as  well  be
subtitled  "Me Jacques; You Dumb." As always he displays  minimal
understanding  of ufologists and their concerns. Sooner or  later
the  alert  reader will notice that hardly any of  those  unnamed
"believers"  and  "amateurs"  ever actually  get  quoted.  Vallee
prefers  to set up and knock down straw arguments, always  easier
to  do  than  to address the concerns of  ufology's  serious  (as
opposed to naive or cracked) researchers and theorists.
   From  all indications he still has not read Thomas E.  Bullard
on the patterns in abduction reports or Michael D. Swords on  the
scientific  soundness of the extraterrestrial hypothesis. No  one
familiar  with  UFO Crash at Roswell or The Roswell  Report  will
feel  Vallee  has contributed anything to rational  discourse  on
that  subject.  Vallee continues to ignore  the  many  nontrivial
criticisms  of  his  approach  I outlined  in  "The  Thickets  of
Magonia"  (IUR, January/February 1990). He has simply cranked  up
the  volume  as he declaims yet again what is less  a  scientific
reading  of the phenomenon than an occult one. Let us not  forget
that  Magonia,  the  word  Vallee  made  famous,  translates   as
"Magicland."
   Errors  large  and  small litter  the  pages  of  Revelations,
evincing  Vallee's ignorance of any ufology but his  own.  Donald
Keyhoe did not write The UFO Conspiracy, nor is Timothy Good  the
author  of something called Beyond Top Secret. Benton Jamison  is
not  "Benton  Majison,"  and Detlev Bronk's first  name  was  not
"Detley."  (For that matter, Leo Tolstoy's was not  "Leon.")  And
whatever  else  page  216  would have  you  believe,  CUFOS  left
Evanston,  Illinois, years ago. Vallee's coverage of the  crashed
disc  question  is  a  disaster.  He  has  the  Ubatuba  incident
occurring in 1933 or 1934 when it is supposed to have taken place
in 1951. He places the Spitzbergen event in May 1941-contemporary
published accounts put it in the early 1950s, though it is almost
certainly a hoax-and Dorothy Kilgallen is incorrectly  identified
as the source of the rumor. The celebrated Texas/Mexico  incident
is set in a year and location different from those its proponents
have assigned it.
   One  assumes,  however,  that no error  lies  behind  Vallee's
pretense that the Journal of Scientific Exploration is the  "only
refereed publication in the field" of ufology. First, JSE is  not
a ufological periodical, though it publishes occasional papers on
the  subject,  and second, as Vallee is well aware  as  a  former
JUFOS  board member, CUFOS' Journal of UFO Studies  is  ufology's
only  "refereed publication." This is Vallee's way of  responding
to his critics.
    There is more to be said, but enough is enough. Let us  close
with Vallee's own words:
    "Mysteries that linger without solution for such a long  time
are  a powerful irritant to the mind; they tend to  trigger  wild
speculation.  When  the very existence of the  enigma  is  flatly
denied by arrogant scientists who have not even taken the time to
look  at the data, when the government destroys or covers up  the
fact  that its own employees have actually witnessed some of  the
best documented sightings, it is natural for speculations to turn
into  paranoia, and for research to become derailed by  fantastic
delusions.
    "It  is at this point that the very people who could help  us
in  our  investigations, namely the UFO  researchers  themselves,
become caught up in their own need to believe in the most bizarre
theories, for which not a shred of real proof exists."
   Sadly, Vallee has no idea that he has just described himself.-
Jerome Clark

PARANET FILE NAME: VALLEE.REB

--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Vallee Responds
Date: 15 Dec 91 17:50:00 GMT

Author, Jacques Vallee, has sent a letter to ParaNet which is posted here for
your information.  Please note, it is (C) 1991 by Jacques Vallee.

A LETTER TO READERS OF 'REVELATIONS'

by Jacques Vallee

In the Sept/Oct. 91 issue of its magazine, known as IUR (the "International UFO
Reporter"), the Center for UFO Studies has published a review of 'Revelations'
signed by Jerome Clark.  It claims that (1) the book contains errors in names
and citations, (2) its summary of alleged crashes is "a disaster" because
several dates are wrong, (3) it pays too much attention to claims that should
be summarily dismissed as fraudulent, (4) it does not reveal the names of all
sources and (5) it fails to quote ufologists with differing views.

These claims, except for the very first one, are false.

(1)  I have relied too much on memory and I have occasionally fallen victim to
typos.  For instance, CUFOS has indeed moved to Chicago rather than staying a
few miles away in Evanston.  Dr. Bronk's first name should be spelled Detlev,
not Detley (it is spelled correctly in the index).  Two letters got inverted in
Jamison's name and I did not catch it.  And it is undoubtedly true that JUFOS
(Journal of UFO Studies) is a refereed journal.

(2)  Crash data are notoriously unreliable, as IUR itself has often pointed
out.  However my "1933 or 1934" date for Ubatuba was not a typo.  Similarly,
from the data I have I must stand by the quoted material of May 1947 for the
Spitzbergen crash.

(3)  It is true that I did not castigate the claims of John Lear, Bill Cooper
and Bob Lazar as outright frauds.  I believe that these men are wrong but I
cannot conclude that they lie.  Somebody is using Lazar.  Somebody invented the
MJ-12 documents.  Somebody typed the papers that Richard Doty gave Linda Howe.
I did not hesitate, on the other hand, to denounce the Meier case and the Ed
Walters claims.

(4)  I am being taken to task for suggesting that Len Stringfield should have
revealed his source's names, then neglecting to publish my own.  This is
another bad faith argument.  I have never implied that Mr. Stringfield should
violate the trust of his informants by making their names public in a book, and
I certainly will not be guilty of such a violation myself.  In fact the very
same issue of IUR prints an interesting article by Dr. Bruce Maccabee, hinting
at unnamed informants.  My argument with Mr. Stringfield's sources is that bona
fides independent scientists have not been able to talk to them on a
confidential basis.  How do we know that we are simply dealing with another
"Aviary?"

(5)  As for the claim that the book fails to mention contrasting views, I
believe it is equally unfounded.  Many such researchers were cited verbatim. On
page 216, I even quoted Jerome Clark's interview with the Hartford Courant,
where he summarily dismissed the Voronezh case, one of the most important UFO
events of the last ten years.

Signed

Jacques Vallee

--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: oxy.edu!yokatta
Subject: 300,000 year-old human remains in Brazil: a caution
Date: 16 Dec 91 08:13:01 GMT

From: [e-mail] (Scott Littleton)

Re the purported discovery in Brazil of 300,000 year-old human remains, I
would take it with a very large grain of salt. Although the earliest
human migrations to this hemisphere probably began earlier than most
archaeologists have heretofore suspected--that is, perhaps as early as
30,000 years ago--there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that the New
World played host to any pre-sapiens hominids. The Mojave site in
question is most likely the one at Calico, near Barstow, at which the
late Louis Leaky, of Olduvai Gorge fame, was convinced he'd unearthed
crude tools dating from approximately 250,000 B.P.  But he was unable to
convince his peers that they were in fact artifacts.  Indeed, after more
than two decades of assiduous digging by a handful of dedicated true
believers, led by Ruth Simpson, NO human remains of any kind have come to
light.

Re theromluminescence, it's a thoroughly legitimate geophysical dating
technique that has been used successfully to date some extremely ancient
African fossils, human and otherwise.  If in fact this technique were to
yield a date in the 300,000 year range for human remains found in Brazil,
we anthropologists would all be back at the old drawing board bright and
early tomorrow morning.  But I suspect that if this were the case, it
would long since have been announced in NATURE.  There would be no reason
to suppress such a discovery.  Of course, if it were associated in some
way with the UFO phenomenon, the powers that be might well decide to
cover it up, although I gather from the post that that is not the case.

Of more interest to Paranet might be the mounting evidence, based on
mitochondrial DNA sequences from all over the planet, that ALL
anatomically modern human beings (i.e., Homo sapiens sapiens) descend
from a SINGLE female who lived in what is now the Kalahari desert around
150,000 years ago.  Could our ubiquitous 'visitors,' as Strieber labels
them, have had a hand in that? I have my doubts, as the bulk of the
evidence (primarily mythological) I've collected so far points to an
initial arrival shortly before the end of the Pleistocene (ca. 11-12,000
years ago)--long after Homo sapiens sapiens had managed to penetrate
every major region of the Planet save for Antarctica.  But it's something
to think about.

Cheers,
Scott Littleton




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Hrusovszky)
Subject: Re: Mutilated Cattle      1/
Date: 17 Dec 91 02:48:42 GMT

MC> Lake Villa Police Chief Al Copenharver said persons who killed the fir
MC> cow, a Black Angus beifer, left only its head behind.  The rest of the
MC> carcases seemed to have been butchered by persons wanting meat,
MC> Copenhaver said.

MC> He said the second cow, a Holstein Beifer, looked as if it had been
MC> beaten to death.  The animal's left ear had been severed and was not
MC> found, he said.

MC> "It was about that time that the story broke about some 20 persons
MC> disappearing in Oregon to await time to leave Earth on a spaceship," h
MC> said.

MC> They wanted the cheapest camping
MC> spots and seemed strapped for money.  They were evasive and kept to
MC> themselves.  My patrolmen said some of them used Biblical names."

Sounds like some sort of Religious cult who worship supposed aliens.
I'll bet there is some "leader" who is making a fortune on them in one
way or another.



--
John Hrusovszky - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: hpvclmd.vcd.hp.com!miked
Subject: Ray Stanford's Address
Date: 17 Dec 91 22:32:07 GMT

From: Mike Dobbs <[e-mail]>

Bill Chalker...

My father used to correspond with Ray quite regularly.  I believe his address
is still:
  Ray Stanford
  P.O. Box 599
  College Park, Maryland  20740   USA

 Best Regards,

--------
  Mike Dobbs        /    Internet: [e-mail]




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu!jrblack
Subject: Missing Mystery Object 1991VG
Date: 18 Dec 91 02:41:57 GMT

From: James Roger Black <[e-mail]>

Mystery object '1991VG' is still missing.

For those who haven't been following it, 1991VG is an interplanetary
object first thought to be an asteroid but later identified as 'an
artificial object rotating about more than one axis.' It was tracked
for several weeks as it approached the earth, finally passing beneath
the south pole on 5 December 1991 at a distance of about a quarter-
million miles.

Now it can't be found.  According to news reports, it didn't show up at
all on photographs taken just after its closest approach to the earth.
And an attempt on December 12 by the Goldstone facility to locate it
with radar was also unsuccessful.  Another attempt will be made on
December 20 using the big radar dish at Arecibo.

The following is reposted from Usenet News.  Margins have been
reformatted for clarity, and some extraneous material near the
end has been edited out to save space.

***************

+ Article: 13504 of sci.astro
+ From: [e-mail] (Daniel Fischer)
+ Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space,alt.alien.visitors
+ Subject: The famous Dr. Steel on 1991 VG [Forwarded]
+ Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
+ Date: 17 Dec 91 17:39:15 GMT
+ Organization: Max Planck Institut fuer Radioastronomie

+ From [e-mail] Tue Dec 17 05:49:11 1991 ...
+ ... did I get the following paper which he asked me to post to the net:

==========================================================================

  A ROCK OR A ROCKET?

On November 6th astronomers operating the Spacewatch telescope at Kitt
Peak in Arizona found what was at first assumed to be a small rocky
asteroid.  It was given the code-name 1991 VG.  More recent
observations from Chile have indicated that this body, which raised a
flurry in the world's media when it flew close (on an astronomical
scale) by the Earth on December 5th, may in fact be an old rocket body
returning to our planet's vicinity.

Spacewatch, operated by Tom Gehrels, Jim Scotti and David Rabinowitz
(University of Arizona) is a relatively small (91 cm aperture)
telescope which has been fitted with a large CCD array and programmed
to search for objects such as asteroids and comets which approach the
Earth.  They do this by letting the sidereal rotation of the Earth
cause the instrument to scan across the sky, with the same area being
returned to later, and again once more as a check.  Any objects which
have moved between scans are picked up by the software, and the
operator may then make a visual inspection of the data and calculate a
preliminary orbit for the new-found object.  Especially for the fainter
detections many of the orbits turn out to be geocentric, a piece of
man-made debris being indicated.  However some very small asteroids
have been discovered in this way: 1991 BA last January (the
closest-ever observed miss of our planet, at 170,000 km) and 1991 TU in
October (at 750,000 km).  1991 VG is the second-closest observed
fly-by, at 450,000 km, or just further away than the Moon.  All three
of these objects were estimated to be about 5--10 metres in size, and
are therefore the smallest and intrinsically-faintest items ever
observed telescopically above the atmosphere.

However, 1991 VG was soon realized to be in an unusual orbit for an
asteroid:  its path is very similar to that of the Earth, being almost
circular (eccentricity 0.08), the size of its orbit just 5\% larger
than that of the Earth (so that it takes just a few weeks longer than a
year to circuit the Sun), and, critically, an extremely small
inclination to the ecliptic, the plane of the Earth's orbit.  The
latter parameter has a value (about a quarter of a degree only) which
is consistent with a man-made spacecraft.  Initial computations by
Brian Marsden (Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics) indicated
that it might be an upper stage from the U.S. Centaur rocket which put
the German Helios 1 satellite into a heliocentric orbit in December
1974, since tracing the orbit of 1991 VG back in time showed a close
approach about then.  A Soviet craft was also a possibility.  However,
as better astrometric data for 1991 VG came in it was possible for its
orbit to be improved, and Marsden found that he could not identify a
close approach to the Earth since the beginning of the space age, and
so the `rocket' option was discounted.  Since there are about a billion
asteroids of this size or larger believed to orbit in the inner solar
system, the chances are that some of them will have orbits very similar
to the Earth, and in fact these are much more likely to be detected by
telescopes like Spacewatch.  From the opposite point of view a
calculation of the probability of a collision by such an object with
our planet indicates that its lifetime against such an event is only
about 250,000 years, which means that it must have arrived in its
present orbit in the astronomically-recent past.  Marsden suggested
that it might be an object which had spent most of its life in a
so-called `Trojan' orbit, having exactly the same orbital period as the
Earth but keeping 60 degrees ahead or behind of the planet at all
times, until it recently slipped that mooring.  Many Trojan asteroids
are seen in association with Jupiter, and in 1990 a Mars Trojan was
discovered.

However, close to the fly-by of 1991 VG Richard West (European Southern
Observatory) collected time-resolved images of the object using the
Danish 1.54 m telescope in Chile: the path taken at that time was over
the South Pole and therefore out of the reach of most northern
telescopes.  He found that the brightness of 1991 VG varies rapidly and
has a period of about 7--8 minutes, with several extremely bright
flashes being detected.  These are as expected for a rotating, shiny
spacecraft which occasionally renders a specular reflection in the
direction of the viewer.  Such a short period also seems inconsistent
with a natural rocky asteroid, since it is unlikely that such an object
of 5--10 m diameter could have a spin period of less that one hour
without flying apart: its cohesive strength would be too low.  In
addition the relative brightnesses in different regions of the visible
spectrum were essentially solar, warranting for a colourless object
rather than a reddish asteroidal reflection spectrum.  West concludes
that 1991 VG is most likely an artificial object rotating about more
than one axis.

This being the case it opens up a problem for dynamicists: if 1991 VG
is indeed the Centaur rocket body launched in 1974 then how has its
orbit been perturbed so as to bring it back to our vicinity now?  One
possibility is that excess fuel has escaped and therefore had a
rocket-effect without being ignited.  It also seems inevitable that it
will also soon be claimed as being an alien spacecraft left by
extraterrestrial visitors, even though science will undoubtedly be able
to provide a plausible solution.  If it is a rocket then 1991 VG also
provides an example of mankind's ability to pollute not only his own
planet and immediate space environment, but interplanetary space as
well: the prevention of such pollution was the subject of a resolution
of the International Astronomical Union at its General Assembly in
Buenos Aires last August.

So is 1991 VG a rock or a rocket?  An answer to this may be gained over
the next week when Steve Ostro (Jet Propulsion Laboratory) attempts to
get radar echoes from it using the giant radar at Arecibo (Puerto
Rico).  An attempt from Goldstone (California) on December 12th was
unsuccessful.  The radio reflection properties of metal are very
different to those of rock, so that a spacecraft would give a much
stronger echo; its structure would also affect the returned
polarization.  Even then the answer may not be  definitive since it is
known that many asteroids, like meteorites, are made of nickel-iron.

Is it so unlikely that a spacecraft would come back to Earth?  In fact,
using the orbit of 1991 VG prior to the recent encounter (a = 1.05 AU,
e = 0.075, i = 0.22 deg) the chance of this object hitting the Earth
converts to a lifetime of only 250,000 years (other Earth-crossing
asteroids have lifetimes more like 100 million years).  Increasing the
cross-section to that having a radius equal to the miss distance of
450,000 km implies that an object in such an orbit would fly-by the
Earth by that distance or less once per 20 years or so: pretty
frequent.

[Other material edited out for length.]

Dr Duncan Steel,
Anglo-Australian Observatory,
Private Bag,
Coonabarabran, NSW 2357,
Australia.

'[e-mail]' or "[e-mail]" or "PSI%AAOCBN.OZ.AU::DIS"

Telephone:  [phone] (AEST is 10 hours ahead of GMT/UT)
            [phone] (home)
Fax:        [phone]

=====================================================================

[End of Usenet News posting]





--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: logdis1.sm.aflc.af.mil!davisl
Subject: This 'UFO' magazine that you are all discussing ...
Date: 18 Dec 91 02:43:03 GMT

From: [e-mail] ((AKA MrWizard) W. LeRoy Davis;SM-ALC/HRUC)

Could some kind soul please inform me of the details of how to subscribe to
this magazine and the rate?

advTHANKSance,
W. LeRoy Davis
[e-mail]
------------------------------
Don't ever think you know what's right for the other guy.      'DAS ENERGI'
He might start thinking he knows what's right for you.         Paul Williams




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******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************

                Info-ParaNet Newsletters   Volume I  Number 515

                            Monday, January 6th 1992

Today's Topics:

                              Re: Firsthand Account
                                Ufo Announcement
                              Re: Firsthand Account
                            CUFOS Abduction Videotape
                                  Noriega Trial
                               Seasons Greetings!
                          Re: Raf Bentwaters/woodbridge
                            Re: Receipt Acknowledged
                     Re: 300,000 yrs ago, humans in Americas
                            Cufos Abduction Videotape
               Cheap analysis of light sources (gulf breeze, etc.)
                   The Famous Dr. Steel On 1991 Vg [forwarded]
                                  NOT HELIOS 1?
                           Re: Re^2: Firsthand Account
                                 Plasma Vortices
                             Oldest Secret Document

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Re: Firsthand Account
Date: 18 Dec 91 05:18:00 GMT


 * Forwarded from "Alt.Alien.Visitors"
 * Originally from Christopher S. Diaz
 * Originally dated 12-16-91 12:13

From: [e-mail] (Christopher S. Diaz)
Date: 16 Dec 91 04:01:45 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

An experience that happened to me when I was little...
Time : May of '79 or '80
Place: Forest in western KY
What happened:
        Boy scout campout... night was cold and very clear.  Looked
at the sky for constellations and saw an object that looked like a
star moving across the sky at a fairly fast rate.  It had the brightness
and size of the average star that night.  It was white in color and did
not blink, so I dismissed it as any plane light; I don't think it
flickered like a star, but it was moving too fast for me to be sure.
        It moved straight overhead across the sky.  I noticed it when
it was about 60 degrees from one horizon and watched it until it
reached the opposite horizon.  The event took about 2 minutes max.
I never heard any noise from it (the forest was very quiet).  Someone
said it was a satellite, but even at that age I thought that the object
had to be of considerable size to be seen that clearly.  Someone else
suggested that it was an asteroid or shooting-star, but I never saw
any tail from it - it appeared as a distinct dot, and like I said,
wouldn't it have to be of considerable size to be seen that clearly?

        Any comments or insight would be appreciated.

Happy Holidays,

Chris

[e-mail]  [e-mail]  {uunet,etc.}!ukma!diaz

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From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Ufo Announcement
Date: 18 Dec 91 05:19:00 GMT


 * Forwarded from "Alt.Alien.Visitors"
 * Originally from Sara J Cupps
 * Originally dated 12-16-91 12:14

From: [e-mail] (Sara J Cupps)
Date: 16 Dec 91 14:02:58 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Be sure to watch the Christmas day edition of "Unsolved Mysteries".
I just heard that the government is supposed to announce something about UFO's
in conjuction with the show.
--

[e-mail]     "Inside my heart is breaking,
S. Cupps                  My makeup may be flaking
934 Maple #7              But my smile still stays on.
Story City, IA  50248     The show must go on."
USA                          -Freddie Mercury | Queen

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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Re: Firsthand Account
Date: 18 Dec 91 05:20:00 GMT


 * Forwarded from "Alt.Alien.Visitors"
 * Originally from David Drumheller
 * Originally dated 12-16-91 17:56

From: [e-mail] (David Drumheller)
Date: 16 Dec 91 20:04:00 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

Another firsthand account...

    About eighteen years ago (I was thirteen) I saw some strange
lights pass through the clouds at about 10 o'clock at night.
I remember standing in the road in front of my parents house when
I suddenly looked skyward and saw three colored lights traveling
east to west.  They were actually `point sources,' but due to the
dispersion of light through the clouds, they appeared as three
diffuse balls of light.  One was blue, another was red, and the
third one was white.  I never heard a sound.

    I don't really know what possessed my to look up other than the
fact that is was very dark outside, and any source of light appearing
out of knowhere was bound to get my attention.  (We lived in a
development several miles from the nearest city, Bethlehem, PA.
To this day the neighborhood still has no street lights.)

    After all this time, the only explanation I can come up with is
that I saw `ball lightening.'  However, I would have expected to
hear some noise as well.  I'm sure there could have been some
reasonable explanation for it at the time.  In any case, it was a
very strange experience.

Dave Drumheller
Washington, DC

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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: CUFOS Abduction Videotape
Date: 17 Dec 91 20:42:00 GMT


 > In the spirit of Bill Chalker's recent post concerning the new
 > Australian UFO
 > book on computer diskette, I wanted to make everyone  in this forum
 > aware of
 > the newly-produced Center for UFO Studies videotape on the abduction
 > phenomenon.

Thanks for making the tape available, Mark. I shall place my order as soon as
I've cleared up my Christmas bills. It sounds like a winner!

By the way, if you are still in need of French translators, I have one ready
and waiting. I'll send you his address.

Jim

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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Noriega Trial
Date: 16 Dec 91 14:28:05 GMT

Don:

Was it you that told us that Noriega's trial was proceeding in Fla.? I know
this is gonna sound ridiculous, but could you source me on that? Newspapers?
News magazines? CNN? What's the deal? I still haven't heard word one, and I'm
beginning to wonder if maybe you misheard, or misread, or maybe I did...

Jim

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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Seasons Greetings!
Date: 18 Dec 91 05:30:00 GMT

Happy Holidays from ParaNet and myself!

--
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From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Raf Bentwaters/woodbridge
Date: 18 Dec 91 05:47:00 GMT

Hello Jim,

Loren says he looks forward to John's response to his paper.

See ya,

Linda

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From: [e-mail] (Travis Hall)
Subject: Re: Receipt Acknowledged
Date: 15 Dec 91 23:59:00 GMT

In a post concerning the AVRO Car at the Smithsonian Museum...


 JP> I've been there and haven't seen it.  If someone knows where it is I'd
 JP> really like to see it...  (I'll send free photos to the 1st correct
 JP> respondee...)
 JP> Thanks, take care.
 JP> John.

John, Suggest you check the Garber Facility at Silver Hill MD. The Air and
Space Museum has an extension facility there. Not only do they store
exhibits there for periodic use in the Museum on the Mall, but that is
the location where they restore the aircraft, etc. They have an extensive
exhibit area there and citizens are welcome (you may need an appointment).
Docents run the tours and are very knowledgable. Regards...T
---Update--
Just checked with docent (volunteer guide) friend...The AVRO hovercar is
indeed at this facility.  T


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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Travis Hall)
Subject: Re: 300,000 yrs ago, humans in Americas
Date: 18 Dec 91 03:30:00 GMT


 -=> Quoting ncar!wam.umd.edu!infinity to All <=-
 n> Date: 4 Dec 91 00:17:28 GMT
 n> From: David Elmore Coleman <[e-mail]>

 n> In July or August 1989 a French anthropological or archaeological
 n> journal published or reviewed a study by a Brazilian
 n> archaeologist/anthropologist concerning remains in northern Brazil
 n> dated by thermoluminescence to be 300,000 years old. This came on the...

 I took the liberty of looking up the Address for The Univerisity of Sao
 Paulo in one of my guides...I hope this helps. I know this does not look
 like a complete address, but this is what's in the book. At least it's a
 start. Keep up the great posts, they're why I keep commin' back!
 Regards...T

UNIVERSIDADE DE SAO PAULO
05508 SAO PAULO, BRAZIL

Tele: 211-0011 (you'll need to find the country and city codes from
Ma Bell (plus mucho cruzados) 8-}




... Travis Hall
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Mark Rodeghier)
Subject: Cufos Abduction Videotape
Date: 18 Dec 91 12:00:01 GMT

>By the way, if you are still in need of French translators, I
>have one ready and waiting. I'll send you his address.

We have two people working on a translation of a portion of the
SOBEPS material, so I won't take you up on your offer of a French
translator for the moment.  However, I'll keep it in mind because I
don't know yet how well the translations will be done by these other
two.

You will be interested to know (but keep it under your hat), that
Betty Andreasson has agreed to participate in the CUFOS abduction
project.

Have a pleasant and safe holidays.
Mark
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: UNHH.UNH.EDU!K_MACARTHUR1
Subject: Cheap analysis of light sources (gulf breeze, etc.)
Date: 18 Dec 91 16:33:21 GMT

From: [e-mail]


 I think a profitable way to find out what kind of lights are used
in any phenomena would be a simple spectroscope.   These are telescope like
instruments that have splitting prisms/diffraction gratings in them that take
the light you focus it on and spread it out in various diffraction lines that
give you a clue as to the origin of the light.  For example, if the Gulf Breeze
lights really are car flares on balloons, the spectrum observed would show the
characteristic spectrum lines of magnesium and oxygen.  A sodium vapor light
would show sodium lines, carbon arcs would show carbon, modern light bulbs
would show tungsten from the filament inside, and so on.   Sure if aliens use
similar technology for lighting it would not prove a thing, but if you could
record the spectrum and not be able to find a chemical source for it or it
has a chemical source that is impossible for present tech to create, then you
may have something.   It probably is more valuable as a debunking tool than a
proof positive indicator, though.  With today
's technology going down in price, it won't be too long before small radars
will be able to be carried on trucks to use to chronicle distance, speed, and
other characteristics of objects.  People with large boats use radar at sea,
although I imagine it sets one back a few thousand dollars or more.  Does
any group actively send out teams of investigators with real scientific equip-
ment?   A VCR camcorder is nice, but corroborating instrument readings would
help determine a lot of things.

    Just my $0.02 (American) worth.

    Korac MacArthur
    [e-mail]




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: The Famous Dr. Steel On 1991 Vg [forwarded]
Date: 18 Dec 91 15:05:00 GMT


 * Forwarded from "Alt.Alien.Visitors"
 * Originally from Daniel Fischer
 * Originally dated 12-17-91 18:39

From: [e-mail] (Daniel Fischer)
Date: 17 Dec 91 17:39:15 GMT
Organization: Max Planck Institut fuer Radioastronomie
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space,alt.alien.visitors


From [e-mail] Tue Dec 17 05:49:11 1991 ...
... did I get the following paper which he asked me to post to the net:

==========================================================================


                A ROCK OR A ROCKET?

On November 6th astronomers operating the Spacewatch telescope at Kitt
Peak in Arizona found what was at first assumed to be a small rocky
asteroid.  It was given the code-name 1991 VG.  More recent observations
from Chile
have indicated that this body, which raised a flurry in the world's media
when it flew close (on an astronomical scale) by the Earth on December 5th,
may in fact be an old rocket body returning to our planet's vicinity.

Spacewatch, operated by Tom Gehrels, Jim Scotti and David Rabinowitz
(University of Arizona) is a relatively small (91 cm aperture) telescope
which has been fitted with a large CCD array and programmed to search
for objects such as asteroids and comets which approach the Earth.  They do
this by letting the sidereal rotation of the Earth cause the instrument
to scan across
the sky, with the same area being returned to later, and again once more as
a check.  Any objects which have moved between scans are picked up by the
software, and the operator may then make a visual inspection of the data and
calculate a preliminary orbit for the new-found object.  Especially for the
fainter detections many of the orbits turn out to be geocentric, a
piece of man-made debris being indicated.  However some very small asteroids
have been discovered in this way: 1991 BA last January (the closest-ever
observed miss of our planet, at 170,000 km) and 1991 TU in October (at
750,000 km).  1991 VG is the second-closest observed fly-by, at 450,000 km,
or just further away than the Moon.  All three of these objects were estimated
to be about 5--10 metres in size, and are therefore the smallest
and intrinsically-faintest items ever
observed telescopically above the atmosphere.

However, 1991 VG was soon realized to be in an unusual orbit for an asteroid:
its path is very similar to that of the Earth, being almost circular
(eccentricity 0.08), the size of its orbit just 5\% larger than that of
the Earth (so that it takes just a few weeks longer than a year to circuit
the Sun), and, critically, an extremely small inclination to the ecliptic,
the plane of the Earth's orbit.  The latter parameter has a value
(about a quarter of a degree only) which is consistent with a man-made
spacecraft.  Initial computations by Brian Marsden (Harvard-Smithsonian
Center for Astrophysics) indicated that it might be an upper stage from the
U.S. Centaur rocket which put the German Helios 1 satellite into a
heliocentric orbit in December 1974, since tracing the orbit of 1991 VG
back in time showed a close approach about then.  A Soviet craft
was also a possibility.  However, as better astrometric data for 1991 VG
came in it was possible for its orbit to be improved, and Marsden found
that he could not identify a close approach to the Earth since the
beginning of the space age, and so the `rocket' option was discounted.
Since there are about a billion asteroids of this size or larger believed to
orbit in the inner solar system, the chances are that some of them will have
orbits very similar to the Earth, and in fact these are much more likely
to be detected by telescopes like Spacewatch.  From the opposite point of
view a calculation of the probability of a collision by such an object with
our planet indicates that its lifetime against such an event is only about
250,000 years, which means that it must have arrived in its present orbit
in the astronomically-recent past.  Marsden suggested that it might be
an object which had spent most of its life in a so-called `Trojan' orbit,
having exactly the same orbital period as the Earth but keeping 60 degrees
ahead or behind of the planet at all times, until it recently slipped that
mooring.  Many Trojan asteroids are seen in association with Jupiter, and
in 1990 a Mars Trojan was discovered.

However, close to the fly-by of 1991 VG Richard West (European Southern
Observatory) collected time-resolved images of the object using the Danish
1.54 m telescope in Chile: the path taken at that time was over the South
Pole and therefore out of the reach of most northern telescopes.  He found
that the brightness of 1991 VG varies rapidly and has a period of about
7--8 minutes, with several extremely bright flashes being detected.  These
are as expected for a rotating, shiny spacecraft which occasionally
renders a specular reflection in the direction of the viewer.  Such a short
period also seems inconsistent with a natural rocky asteroid, since it
is unlikely that such an object of 5--10 m diameter could have a spin
period of less that one hour without flying apart: its cohesive strength would
be too low.  In addition the relative
brightnesses in different regions of the visible
spectrum were essentially solar, warranting for a colourless object rather
than a reddish asteroidal reflection spectrum.  West concludes that
1991 VG is most likely an artificial object rotating about more than one
axis.

This being the case it opens up a problem for dynamicists: if 1991 VG
is indeed the Centaur rocket body launched in 1974 then how has its orbit
been perturbed so as to bring it back to our vicinity now?  One possibility
is that excess fuel has escaped and therefore had a rocket-effect
without being ignited.  It also seems inevitable that it will also soon
be claimed as being an alien spacecraft left by extraterrestrial visitors,
even though science will undoubtedly be able to provide a plausible
solution.  If it is a rocket then 1991 VG also provides an example of
mankind's ability to
pollute not only his own planet and immediate space environment, but
interplanetary space as well: the prevention of such pollution was the
subject of a resolution of the International Astronomical Union at its
General Assembly in Buenos Aires last August.

So is 1991 VG a rock or a rocket?  An answer to this may be
gained over the next week when Steve Ostro (Jet Propulsion Laboratory)
attempts to get radar echoes from it using the giant radar
at Arecibo (Puerto Rico).  An attempt from Goldstone (California) on
December 12th was unsuccessful.  The radio
reflection properties of metal are very different to those of rock, so
that a spacecraft would give a much stronger echo; its structure would
also affect the returned polarization.  Even then the answer may not
be  definitive since it is known that many asteroids, like meteorites,
are made of nickel-iron.

Is it so unlikely that a spacecraft would come back to Earth?  In fact,
using the orbit of 1991 VG prior to the recent encounter (a = 1.05 AU,
e = 0.075, i = 0.22 deg) the chance of this object hitting the Earth
converts to a lifetime of only 250,000 years (other Earth-crossing asteroids
have lifetimes more like 100 million years).  Increasing the cross-section
to that having a radius equal to the miss distance of 450,000 km implies
that an object in such an orbit would fly-by the Earth by that distance or
less once per 20 years or so: pretty frequent.


Duncan Steel,
Anglo-Australian Observatory,
Coonabarabran, NSW.


From: [e-mail]
Subject: NOT HELIOS 1?
To: [e-mail]
X-Vms-To: IN%"[e-mail]"
Status: R

                                               1991 December 17th.
Dear Daniel,

Thanks for the message.  I believe that Brian Marsden identified a
COSMOS craft from earlier in 1974 as a possibility, but at that time
he was looking for returns around that time (prior to a good orbit for
1991 VG being available).  Now no return to the Earth's vicinity is
found purely from gravitation: some have looked at the possibilities
of radiation pressure for a large hollow object (or a panel), or fuel
escaping.  It is not possible, it seems, to  narrow down to a candidate
if the year (even) when the object was last close to the Earth is not known.

I believe that the Helios 1 booster is still listed in the Satellite
Situation Report (i.e. return to Earth's surface NOT indicated) although
I will need to check on that tomorrow.


Duncan Steel


=====================================================================

Dr Duncan Steel,
Anglo-Australian Observatory,
Private Bag,
Coonabarabran, NSW 2357,
Australia.

"[e-mail]" or "[e-mail]" or "PSI%AAOCBN.OZ.AU::DIS"

Telephone:  [phone] (AEST is 10 hours ahead of GMT/UT)
            [phone] (home)
Fax:        [phone]

=====================================================================

--
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INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Re: Re^2: Firsthand Account
Date: 18 Dec 91 22:58:00 GMT


 * Forwarded from "Alt.Alien.Visitors"
 * Originally from Notes Administrator (dan Peterson
 * Originally dated 12-18-91 12:08

From: [e-mail] (notes administrator (Dan Peterson))
Date: 14 Dec 91 04:40:00 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Greeley, CO
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors


I used to spend quite a bit of time up at night with my telescope. Those
of you familiar with trail ridge road thru Rocky Mountain National Park is
an incredible place to star gaze if the weather cooperates. I have seen
ball lighting ( red and blue ) on trail ridge road on several occasions.
I have pointed my telescope at the event ( A bright undulating ball at
180X from a distance of 10 or so miles). I watched one event where the
lighting formed south of my location (3 1/2 miles south east of the visitor
center) travelled at a an extremely high rate of speed and dissapated as
it closed in on Longs peak. At 12000 feet, flatlanders (I live at 5000 feet)
get oxygen deprivation after several hours. My first thought was UFO and I
could have allowed myself to buy right into the myth. Still I reasoned out
what I was seeing and correctly evaluated the event as St. Elmo's fire. I
see the aurora borealis about once a month because I know what I am looking
for and I live outside of town. One night I watched a group of stealth
fighters fly over at 3:00AM travelling east toward SAC was my guess. That was
over 3 years ago (There were no stealth fighters then). All this babbling has
a point.

My point is: question your senses at night, from experience, depth perception
is not as good at night (you can test this by going outside on a very dark
starry night and looking straight up, if you have a difficult time remaining
steady you will see what I mean). During a full moon, go outside with 4 coins
a penny, nickle, dime, and quarter. Estimate mentally which coin held at arms
length most closely estimates the size the moon (NEXT FULL DEC 21). Then
actually perform the experiment. Question your senses at night. As human beings
we have certainly been programs by our societies to believe some things that
just are not true. If you read a little quantum mechanics, you will see that
'aliens' would have to be some "MIRACULOUS" creatures get here from there. I
am asking any and all aliens to visit my house, I live in the country, you
can make a nice crop circle when you land, I dont have neighbors so you wont
terrify anybody, we can look at your home star with my scope. I'll be honest.
I used to believe in this stuff and now after a lot of new valid experiences
and knowledge. I dont. So feel free to land at my house, you can have coffee
and a moon pie, and I'll tell everyone I believe again.

starman

"what would i be thinking if i were a gelatinous creature living near a
sulfur spewing volcanic vent under a gazillion pounds of water pressure???"

:wq!

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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: doc.imperial.ac.uk!aixssc.ibm.co.uk!rob
Subject: Plasma Vortices
Date: 19 Dec 91 04:35:33 GMT

From: Robert Trevelyan <[e-mail]>


Sheldon,
 Saw a draft copy of a crop circle catalogue by Michael Chorost
 a few days ago. It had a picture of plasma vortex created in a
 lab. It was credited with your name and the photo was credited
 to Richard Shapiro. The photo shows a quintuplet created in
 the lab but did you manage to create a formation in dust similar
 to the Japanese scientist. I would be interested to hear your
 findings on this although I don't believe plasma vortices create
 crop circles I am interested in all aspect of this phenomenon.
 Regards, Robert

--
Robert Trevelyan   UKnet: [e-mail]
AIX Communications    VNET: TREVELR at NHBVM7
     Voice: [phone]




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Oldest Secret Document
Date: 18 Dec 91 23:04:42 GMT

SYSTEM OF SECRECY IS LABELED `ABSURD'

Knight-Ridder News Service

      WASHINGTON - A file designated WCD-9944-X-1 lies under lock
and key on the sixth floor of the National Archives. Inside the
file, faded and frail with age, is the oldest classified document
in the United States.
      Subject: Troop movements in Europe. Date: April 15, 1917 -
nine days after the United States entered World War I.
Classification: Confidential.
      The document stays secret because the US Army says releasing
it would damage national security.
      Archives are opening and secret documents are being released
behind the Iron Curtain. Lies are being erased and blank spaces are
being filled with official histories. Yet in Washington, millions
of documents remain classified for no clear reason, according to
historians, researchers and government officials.
      The secrecy that keeps the seal on file WCD-9944-X-1
"signifies the level of absurdity that he classification system has
reached," said Steven Aftergood of the Federation of American
Scientists, who discovered the document's existence last month.
      No one knows how many classified documents there are in the
United States.
      "A mountain...tens of millions, or hundreds of millions or
billions," said Steven Garfinkle, whose job as head of the federal
Information Security Oversight Office is to track the government's
secrecy system.
      No one knows how to go about reading, declassifying and
releasing all of those documents.
      "We've got to do something, or that mountain's going to build
up more," Garfinkle said. "What are we going to do? Wave a magic
wand and declassify it? Burn it?"
      No one knows how much of the hidden record of the nation's
history will stay secret forever.
      File WCD-9944-X-1 is one of "several documents that date back
to the World War I era that remain classified," Garfinkle said.
"Obviously, it seems absurd on the surface."
      Michael Knapp, an archivist at the military-reference branch
of the National Archives, is one of the few people to have seen the
document since 1917. He said he uncovered it in response to
Aftergood's Freedom of Information Act request for "the oldest
military document that we have that is still classified."
      Knapp said the document discusses "troop movements in Europe"
during the first days of World War I. He said he could not discuss
its tittle, its length or its language, because it is classified
"confidential."
      That secrecy classification remained in place after the Army
last reviewed the document in December 1976. Under a 1981
presidential order tightening security strictures, a document may
be classified "confidential" if its disclosure would damage
national security.
      Since the document remains secret, it's hard to know how the
information in it would harm the nation 73 years after Word War I
ended.


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******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************

                Info-ParaNet Newsletters   Volume I  Number 516

                           Tuesday, January 7th 1992

Today's Topics:

                                ReRun-InSearchOf
                         An Interesting Development ...
                                hieronymous, etc.
                                    Suicides?
                                 Plasma Vortices
                         An Interesting Development ...
                                    Implants
                                hieronymous, etc.
                                Gulg Breeze Gifs.
               Cheap analysis of light sources (gulf breeze, etc.)
                                  Noriega Trial
                                *** TV ALERT ***
                                  Crop circles
                                Parallel research
                                    Abduction
                   Recent New South Wales, Australia, reports

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Kay Mclaughlin)
Subject: ReRun-InSearchOf
Date: 16 Dec 91 04:00:00 GMT

For the past few weeks A&E has been running old "In Search Of"
episodes. Tonite they were running an epiode on UFO's, and had a part of
the story on Roswell. Unfortunately my VCR is on the blink, and I took
notes, (woe is me! please excuse this shoddy piece of reporting! I write
Slooooowwww)
They began the the segment on the Roswell case by saying that it began
with a sighting by Dan Wilmot, they interviewed his son briefly.
The best part of the segment was an interview with Jesse Marcel. He said
thet General Ramey made the statement, (about the "kite"), but "we both
knew differently".
***** Poor note taking, but these are parts of quotes******
"We left Roswell at 3:00-3:30..." "We followed the rancher...what I saw,
I couldn't believe there was so much of it...""we found a piece of metal
2 feet by.... when we picked it was as light as the foil from a
pack of cigarettes." (he then made statements as to how you couldn't burn,
or smash it with a sledge hammer) "It was not anything from this Earth,
that I am sure of....and I am familiar with most materials....,
it could not have been (sic. of the earth)."
Then they spoke to Don Ritter building manager of building 18 at Wright
Patt which was actually used for "cold soak engine testing".
Col. Robert Friend (NASA), (former bluebook, AF) said "... Some cases
had a lot of promise (600+ out of 10,000+ cases) and should have been
persued further"
I thought it was quite intereresting to see these old shows again.
I know this is spotty, the show was made in 1978. Narrated by Leonard
Nimoy.

Reagrds,
Kay


--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Greenen)
Subject: An Interesting Development ...
Date: 17 Dec 91 15:16:00 GMT


 * Replying to a message originally to Jim Speiser
 VG>  > I predict that this person will either a) never come forward, b)
 VG>  > will come forward with an alias, or c) will come forward with
 VG>  > his real name, but will be able to provide nothing in the way of
 VG>  > evidence, either for his claims or his background.
 VG>
 VG> Jim,
 VG> I agree with you on this one. I think we've heard more than
 VG> enough about "premier UFO researcher" Wendelle Stevens.
 VG>
 VG> Vlad
 VG>

  Vlad; The strongest instincts that a man has is survival then
comes that 3 letter wo that sounds like the number 6. Can you blame
anyone for not coming forward if there is a strong possibility that
he might commit suicide shortly after he announces his name.
   In America, there is a high percentage of researchers in UFOs and
government secrets that commit suicide. Its very strange but it
seems to happen very quick. One minute they are hot on the trail of
something big and the next minute they went insane and commited
suicide.
   From what I heard is that the "Premier Researcher was approched
by the FBI and was threaten to disclose this persons name.
73'S    ---JIM---
--
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From: violet.berkeley.edu!chalmers
Subject: hieronymous, etc.
Date: 19 Dec 91 13:51:21 GMT

From: [e-mail] (John H. Chalmers Jr.)

Some comments on the last newsletter:

Re the Delphos Case: Did the chemist, Erol Faruk, identify or
describe the 'unstable chemical' mentioned in the abstract?

Also, gasoline and some other petroleum based solvents are
rather quickly metabolized to waxy water-repellent materials
by soil bacteria. This might explain some of the unusual
chemistry of the soil samples.

Elsewhere I have read that fungal growth, dead fungi remnants
and fungal metabolites could explain the properties of the soil.
I haven't seen any of the original data or investigations, so
I don't know if this is plausible or not.


The often missed point of the Bumblebee story is that it was
the theory of how bumblebees fly, not basic aeronautical theory
that was wrong. In fact, the paper was written to describe
the correct theory of bumblebee aerodynamics. Insect wings
work quite differently from bird wings because of their
very different structure. I think there was an article in
Scientific American on this in the last year or so.


The  December 6 issue of Science magazine carries a review of
'Fantastic Archeology,' University of Pennsylvania Press,
Philadelphia, 1991, pb $14.95, hc $28.95 by Stephen Williams,
former director of  the Peabody Museum of Anthropology at Harvard.
This looks like a good source book for heterodox theories on
North American archeology from a skeptical, academic viewpoint.


As for the Hieronymous Machine, see US Patent # 2,482,773 to
Thomas G(alen). Hieronymous, Sept. 27, 1949. 'Detection of
Emanations from Materials and Measurement of the Volumes Thereof.'
The emanations are elsewhere called 'eloptic radiation.'
The machine includes a pickup coil (antenna), a prism with a
goniometer, and a detector consisting of a flat wire coil
between two sheets of plastic. One places an object to be analysed
near the pickup coil, turns the prism, strokes the detector,
and records the prism angle when the detector feels 'tacky'
to the touch.

'Eloptic' is possibly a blend of electric and optic.

John Campbell claimed that a schematic of the machine's innards
(amplifier, etc.) worked as well as the hard wired version
when connected to the  coil, prism and detector. He also claimed
that the machine worked even when it wasn't plugged into any
power source provided the tubes were not burned out. The schematic
version likewise only worked when all the connections and
symbols were correctly drawn.

Most subjects, including Asimov, I believe, got no reaction
whatever with the HM.

A good reference for the HM is 'On the Frontiers of Science,' by
G. Harry Stine, Atheneum, NY, 1985. Stine provides instructions
for builing a HM using contemporary components.  Stine's book
is an entertaining and convenient source for home-built psionic
machines, pyramids, and similar gadgets, but rather unconvincing
as a scientific text.

Stine gives a different number for TGH's patent (2,482,772);
I don't know if this is a second one or a typo.

Hieronymous also built  'armatures' for the late George Van
Tassell's 'Integratron,' a domed circular building at Giant Rock
Airport in CA. VT was an early (50's) contactee and was building the
Integratron under ET guidance or at least inspiration. It was
intitially described as a time-travel device, but later as a
healing machine. Supposedly the building was constructed entirely
without metal parts. After Van Tassell's death, the property was
allegedly sold by his widow and I don't what has happened to it.
It may have become a discoteque.

--- John




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From: [e-mail] (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Suicides?
Date: 20 Dec 91 04:50:01 GMT



In a message to Vladimir Godic <17-Dec-91> Jim Greenen wrote:

JG> In America, there is a high percentage of researchers in UFOs
JG> and government secrets that commit suicide....

Hi Jim,

That's a very interesting statement you've made there! Would it be
possible for you to cite the source(s) of your data, and be a bit
more specific as to what constitutes "a *high percentage* of
researchers in UFO's". Additionally, how about elaborating on a few
of the more notable ufological suicides?

73's back to ya --

Sheldon, N9EHL @ 1:11/50
--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Plasma Vortices
Date: 20 Dec 91 04:51:02 GMT



In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <19-Dec-91> Robert Trevelyan
wrote:

RT> Sheldon,
RT> Saw a draft copy of a crop circle catalogue by Michael Chorost
RT> a few days ago. It had a picture of plasma vortex created in a
RT> lab. It was credited with your name and the photo was credited
RT> to Richard Shapiro. The photo shows a quintuplet created in
RT> the lab but did you manage to create a formation in dust
RT> similar to the Japanese scientist. I would be interested to
RT> hear your findings on this although I don't believe plasma
RT> vortices create crop circles I am interested in all aspect of
RT> this phenomenon.
RT> Regards, Robert

Hi Robert... in response to your question, no, the quintuplet
formation was not duplicated in aluminum dust a la Yoshi-Hiko
Ohtsuki. In fact, the effect would not be visible at all were it
not for the luminous neon-argon mixture. BTW, to read the photo
correctly, observe the dark regions, *not* the bright zones. To my
knowledge, Ohtsuki's method has produced simple circles, and ringed
circles - but no quintuplets.

Being the objective individual that I strive to be, I'll be the
first to acknowledge that this work may bear no correlation at all
to crop circles, but then again, the similarities are rather
remarkable.

At this point in time, I feel one of the most critical research
requirements we need to acquire is a bullet proof technique of
ascertaining formation authenticity. This will most likely be
achieved through the chronicling of residual artifacts, such as the
non naturally occurring radonuclides currently being studied by
Marshall Dudley and the polyembryonic seed anomalies described by
Charles Levengood.

I would also like to make it clear that I personally feel that most
of the more complex agriglyphs have been hoaxed, and in time, the
circle phenomenon will come to be known as being the result of some
form of naturally occurring, non-intelligent energy.

Take care,

Sheldon
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From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: An Interesting Development ...
Date: 19 Dec 91 15:29:23 GMT

In a message to Vladimir Godic <17 Dec 91 08:16> Jim Greenen wrote:


 JG>  Vlad; The strongest instincts that a man has is survival then
 JG> comes that 3 letter wo that sounds like the number 6. Can you
 JG> blame anyone for not coming forward if there is a strong
 JG> possibility that he might commit suicide
 JG> shortly after he announces his name.
 JG>   In America, there is a high percentage of researchers in UFOs
 JG> and government secrets that commit suicide. Its very strange but
 JG> it seems to happen very quick. One minute they are hot on the
 JG> trail of something big and the next minute they went insane and
 JG> commited suicide.

The only two I can think of are Morris K. Jessup and James McDonald. Jessup I'm
not sure about, but McDonald, I am assured, had some bad family problems. His
suicide was no mystery. Under your scenario, why didn't Hynek take his own life
long before brain cancer claimed him? And why doesn't Mr. Ed do the same?


 JG>   From what I heard is that the "Premier Researcher was
 JG> approched by the FBI and was threaten to disclose this persons name.

Jim, are there any circumstances under which you will NOT believe that same old
chestnut time and time again? Even David Jones, who posted the original message
about the supposed "informant", has admitted the whole thing was probably a
hoax.

Jim



--
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From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Implants
Date: 20 Dec 91 16:08:00 GMT

Hi Keith,
        The packet of goodies has arrived safely.  Thank you very
much!  I hope the tape also reached you safely.  I'm looking forward
to reading through the materials over the Christmas break.
        Thanks, again!
                                        ==Peggy==
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: hieronymous, etc.
Date: 20 Dec 91 07:00:14 GMT

In a message to All <19 Dec 91 12:54> ncar!violet.berkeley.edu! wrote:

 nc>
 nc> Re the Delphos Case: Did the chemist, Erol Faruk, identify or
 nc> describe the 'unstable chemical' mentioned in the abstract?

"[The] properties were consistent with the dissolved substance being an alkali
metal salt of an organic acid and subsequent chemical manipulation supported
this idea. Such a compound would consist of a hydrophobic organic residue -R
linked to a hydrophilic carboxylate anion -CO2-M+ (where M represents an
unknown metal ion):
          R-CO2-M+"


 nc> Also, gasoline and some other petroleum based solvents are
 nc> rather quickly metabolized to waxy water-repellent materials
 nc> by soil bacteria. This might explain some of the unusual
 nc> chemistry of the soil samples.

FAAA-scinating....I'd like to think Faruk would have recognized this property.
His testing seems pretty thorough.


 nc> Elsewhere I have read that fungal growth, dead fungi remnants
 nc> and fungal metabolites could explain the properties of the soil.
 nc> I haven't seen any of the original data or investigations, so
 nc> I don't know if this is plausible or not.

Strongly recommend you pick up JUFOS, as it is Ufology's own and only refereed
science journal. $15 from CUFOS, 2357 W. Peterson Ave., Chicago 60659.


 nc>
 nc> As for the Hieronymous Machine, see US Patent # 2,482,773 to
 nc> Thomas G(alen). Hieronymous, Sept. 27, 1949. 'Detection of
 nc> Emanations from Materials and Measurement of the Volumes Thereof.'


Thanks! When you say that Campbell reported the schematic diagram worked as
well as the machine itself, you mean he actually used the paper with the
drawings on it as a substitute for the machine? Like trying to open a can of
dog food by holding it near a picture of a can opener? HAHAHAHA! That's gonna
go in my list of The Ten Most Outlandish Claims of All Time.

Lessee, so far I've got...

Lizard Man
Elvis Lives
Bielek's Philadelphia Story
The Driver Shot Kennedy
The Diagram Works as Well as the Machine

Any other candidates?

Jim

--
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From: [e-mail] (Andre Eichner)
Subject: Gulg Breeze Gifs.
Date: 13 Dec 91 06:07:00 GMT

Hello Don!

In a msg of <01 Dec 91>, Don Allen writes to Jim Speiser:

 DA> To convert a GIF for posting on the Net requires that you must first
 DA> uuencode it from an 8 bit file format to a 7 bit ASCII text format so
 DA> it can be transmitted around the world intact in message format.

It's better to install a tick-file echo...

cheers
   Andre
         +--------------------------------------------------------+
         | FidoNet-Berlin, the UFO information service in Berlin  |
         | FidoNet 2:245/10, GerNet 222:100/29, ParaNet 91:1021/2 |
         | [phone]  HST/V32/V42B  14.400 bps               |
         | Sysop: Andre Eichner                                   |
         +--------------------------------------------------------+

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From: [e-mail] (John Hicks)
Subject: Cheap analysis of light sources (gulf breeze, etc.)
Date: 20 Dec 91 07:52:00 GMT


 >         I think a profitable way to find out what kind of lights are
 > used
 > in any phenomena would be a simple spectroscope.

 Videotape has been shot of an ordinary road flare using a diffraction grating;
presumably other flares would show a similar spectral "smear." (not very good,
but maybe better than nothing)
 How much would a simple spectroscope cost?

                                           jbh

--
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From: [e-mail] (Jim Greenen)
Subject: Noriega Trial
Date: 20 Dec 91 14:24:00 GMT


 * Replying to a message originally to Don Allen
 JS> Don:
 JS>
 JS> Was it you that told us that Noriega's trial was proceeding
 JS> in Fla.? I know this is gonna sound ridiculous, but could
 JS> you source me on that? Newspapers? Newsmagazines? CNN?
 JS> What's the deal? I still haven't heard word one, and I'm
 JS> beginning to wonder if maybe you misheard, or misread, or
 JS> maybe I did...
 JS>
 JS> Jim

Jim, Don is right and the trial has been going on for sometime.
Starting next week, the defense will make its presentation on the
behalf of Noriega. It smells of the James "Bo" Grz trial where it
was completely black-out from the city limits of Las Vegas. Lars
Hannson has been covering the trial and has written some news
articules on it. Can't get a major newspaper or TV station to touch
it. It makes you wonder just whats going on. 73'S    ---JIM---
--
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INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com!vanth!jms
Subject: *** TV ALERT ***
Date: 21 Dec 91 12:31:18 GMT

From: vanth![e-mail] (Jim Shaffer)

The Christmas episode of 'Unsolved Mysteries' will be a rebroadcast of the
season premiere covering the Bentwaters/Rendlesham case.

--
 *  From the disk of: | [e-mail]                 | I'm in a groove now
 Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms         | -- or is it a rut?
 37 Brook Street      | [e-mail] |
 Montgomery, PA 17752 | [e-mail]      | (Rush, 'Face Up')




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From: [e-mail] (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Crop circles
Date: 20 Dec 91 04:39:00 GMT

I came across a slightly dated item the other day which was news to
me, so I post it for what it is worth. The following is the text of an
AAP (Australian Associated Press) International News Item off the
wires and before being published in any media sources. (In fact I've
never seen it in the media here.)
"London, Oct 27 PA A leading scientist investigating crop circles now
says that all but the simple circles are the work of hoaxers. Dr
Terence Meaden, director of the Oxford based Tornado and Storm
Research Organisation, studied over 200 crop circles this year. He
stands by his theory that the circles are made naturally by a "vortex"
a miniature whirlwind of electrically charged matter. But he now
believes the more complex patterns with squares, triangles and
straight lines are fakes.
Today, he said:"I have crystalised my previous doubts. I can assure you
that that the complex patterns are all fakes." Sometimes, people had
left objects deliberately to be found; other times, the paths they had
trodden to begin the circle had been found hidden underneath the corn,
he said.
Also, unlike the authentic circles, the man-made patterns showed the
corn had been bent to the point of breaking or snapping, he said. His
whirlwind theory had been substantiated, he said, by a dozen
eyewitness accounts and in laboratory tests. Meaden's shift of opinion
was featured on the channel 4 science and technology program Equinox
tonight, which looked at the phenomenon of crop circles.

--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Parallel research
Date: 20 Dec 91 04:52:00 GMT

The other day I came across a book by R A Gardner (1991) titled "Sex Abuse
Hysteria:Salam Witch Trials Revisited." Published by Creative Therapeutics,
Cresskill. Gardner is listed as a Clinical Professor of Child Psychiatry at
Columbia University. Two portions of it on pages 99-100 caught my eye, being
relevant to abduction research.
"A recent development in the field of psychotherapeutic psychitry is the
"uncovering" of early sex abuse that the patient never realized took place.
This has been very much in vogue during the last few years. Sometimes the
process starts with the psychiatrist "suspecting" sex abuse on the basis of
allegedly derivative statements and symptoms that are "suggestive" of early
childhood sex abuse. When the patient expresses puzzlement and even disbelief,
he (she) is encouraged to enter into a more meaningful and deeper (sometimes on
the couch) therapy in order to "uncover" these lost memories. Human beings,
suggestible and gullible animals that we are, are likely to comply with the
psychitrist's prediction and provide the psychiatrist with the "lost"
material." Later on page 100:-
"Interestingly, an even more recent development is the suspicion by patients-
arising within themselves-that they may have been sexually abused and were not
aware of it." Interestingly, these developments have occurred in abduction
research in recent times. Have you had an unexplained nosebleed, dreams of
aliens? Then perhaps you should consider regression to determnine if you have
been abducted!

--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Abduction
Date: 20 Dec 91 05:01:00 GMT

Hi Peggy, thanks for the Richard Price tape. I have listened to it
several times over and find it fascinating. It contains some material
the same as the printed article that's on it's way to you, and some
new material. Thanks again for sending it to me. BTW I finished that
article on implants I have been working on and have despatched it to
the International UFO Reporter for consideration of publication. Hard
proof still evades us, despite there being some hearsay material
floating around.

--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (Bill Chalker UFORA Associate NSW)
Subject: Recent New South Wales, Australia, reports
Date: 20 Dec 91 05:58:00 GMT

I have a number of reports under current investigation, beyond a number of
ongoing abduction cases.
Picnic Point, Sydney Suburb, NSW, 12.30 am, 1st December, 1991: A man was
standing in front of a friends house saying goodnight to his friend who was
standing on the verandah.
The following quotes from a statement from one of this man:
"Suddenly a flash of light travelling down and to my left flashed into my eye.
I turned left and looked upward and there about 50-60 metres away and about 200
metres up was a large disc of flaming circular light which had continued down
and to my left (northward).
"I immediately pointed at it with my right arm and I loudly said to J., "What
the hell is that?"
"The object immediately stoppped and I felt a shot of adrenilin in my heart  It
seemed to turn towards us.  It's large flat black wings now facing us from
therir back and they were curling up above and behind the light....
"It momentarily hovered for about 2 seconds and it then suddenly moved directly
back and away from us about another 50 metres.  It stopped there for about a
second and it then went directly up, turned away from us and headed up and away
from us in a north easterly direction.
"We watched it for about a minute and a half as it accelerated up and away from
us and I could see the airofoil like tops of the wings fluttering (like a sail
does) in the wind.
"We kept watching it until it quickly became just a twinkling light in the
distance and we then called C. (J.'s wife) to look at it.  She could only see
the distant flickering of the light and was quite annoyed that we had not
wakened her sooner.
"By this time a total of about 2-3 minutes had elapsed until we could no longer
see it in the distant high clouds."
Statement from witness M.
I spoke with M. later that same day.  Due to difficulties of getting J. & M.
together a field investigation was not undertaken until December 9th.  On the
1st, I requested both men write down as much as they could to keep the
experience details clear to them.
I visited J.'s residence in the company of 2 associates, where we interviewed
M., J., and his wife.  We reconstructed the event on the spot.
Detail of the object: It consisted of "a disc of mainly yellow with some light
blue light.  It appeared to be clear in that it seemed to have depth but you
could not see through it....Attached to the disc were very large, flat and
black wings.  They seemed to swivel on the disc and to bend towards the
direction that the object travelled as does a sail.   There was hardly any wind
on the night and only scattered cloud cover...."
No sound was heard.  The size of the disc was estimated at about 10 to 15 feet
in diameter, and the "wings" were between 50 to 60 feet in height and between
30 to 35 feet in width at the top.  They were black.
The weather bureau indicated nil launches at the time.  No other traffic
details are applicable.
The object gives the impression of a large "intelligent" hot air balloon
device, but the nature of the sighting and its apparent extraordinary movements
appears to negate this explanation.  Further investigations are underway.
This sighting was within a kilometer or two of 2 other interesting events
reported to me this year.  One of this events involved a spectacular low level
flyover of a massive rectangular object in 1978 at the nearby Picnic Power
Station area.  The other involved 2 yound men (in their 20s) who witnessed a
low level "flyover" of a brilliantly lit disc at nearby Padstow on March 25th,
1991.  This experience appears to be part of an extended milieu contagion
possibly involving possible "abduction " like experiences in the past, with one
of them having a possible CE3 event at Bents Basin as a child.  Bents Basin
incidentally is the location of a spectacular CE3  "robot" type event involving
6 young people back in 1972.  I investigated this report with David Buching
back in 1975.  The recent milieu appears to have been a life long series of
events.
About 1 am, December 13th, 1991 - between Tamworth and Werris Creek.  A woman
was driving home from work in Tamworth heading to Werris Creek.  She reports
being followed by strange lights.  They appeared to been 4 red lights in a line
with a green light underneath.  The witness reports the light arrangement
followed her car for several kilometres, and apparently came over her car.
There was a whizzing noise at this point, whereupon there were 2 brief episodes
of power loss and all lights going out. When I interviewed the woman on
December 15th, I determined that she did not actually see the lights pass over
her car.  She just presumed this was the case when she heard the unusual
whizzing noise.  She also told me that at its closest observed point the light
display was in a adjacent paddock, ostensibly hovering above the grass, but
apparently in front of a small hill (but below the summit line, ie. it clearly
was below the skyline and apparently quite close).  The experience terrified
her and her fear was obvious to those she met when she arrived home.
A possible explanation that needs to be properly evaluated is that a new TV
tower had its beacon lights switched on for the first time on December 11th.
This tower is located in the area.  A man driving home that night reported to
local TV st ation he had probably seen the same thing as the woman, but he was
sure it was due to the tower.  There were at least 2 other seperate witnesses
who believe they saw something unusual.  One man travelling to work at Werris
Creek ostensibly  saw the same display and apparently also experienced car
effects.
This investigation has also brought to light other case details.  More of this
later.
This report was brought to my notice on December 13th, due to a TV interview
(local TV news).  An associate in the area investigating earlier Barraba area
sightings  on my behalf called me straight after the news report was aired.
I have spoken to area police, TV news and local papers, along with the main
reporting witness, along with her husband and mother in law.  She comes across
as a sincere woman who was geniunely frightened by her experience.
It should be noted that the direction of the tower was greatly different to
that of the close paddock position reported.  Light drizzle was falling at the
time.  Is it possible that some sort of weather related relection of the new
tower lights.  The witness while prepared to consider this, did not think it
fitted.
Field investigations are currently trying to be arranged.
Regards from Bill Chalker.

--
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******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************

                Info-ParaNet Newsletters   Volume I  Number 517

                          Wednesday, January 8th 1992

Today's Topics:

                                   Kidd Drive
                               UFORA DIGITAL BOOK
                                    Mysticism
                                  Noriega Trial
                                    Abduction
                                  Ray Stanford
                            Re: UFO BOOK ON COMPUTER
            UFO RESEARCH IN AUSTRALIA & NEW ZEALAND digital book info
                                   Omni Online
                                    Mysticism
                                  Ray Stanford
                                  Noriega Trial
                                   Kidd Drive
                   Recent New South Wales, Australia, reports
                                *** TV ALERT ***
                                     (none)
                                    Suicides?
                         An Interesting Development ...
                                  Crop circles
                                    Mysticism

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: Kidd Drive
Date: 21 Dec 91 20:11:00 GMT


 > What the heck is the Hieronymous Machine?

Jim,

Pardon me  butting in, but I am surprised you don't know what the
Hieronymous Machine is.

It is a contraption that will do anything and everything for you.
We built one many years ago (from drawings and specifications) but we
were scared to try it out.

Vlad

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From: [e-mail] (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: UFORA DIGITAL BOOK
Date: 22 Dec 91 17:12:00 GMT


Seeing that some of you are interest in UFORA computer book, I'll get
in touch with our publisher and find out price in US dollars,
including packaging and posting surface and air mail.

If you have any further question re the book, please contact me.

WISHING YOU ALL A VERY HAPPY HOLLIDAY SEASON.

VLAD

--
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INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Mike Dennis)
Subject: Mysticism
Date: 22 Dec 91 05:16:00 GMT

In reference to telepathic communication, Dr. Barbara Young wishes to
correspond on the following subjects.
1. Are you interested in training for telepathic communication.
2. Remote viewing.
3. Movement through time.
4. mystical training.
     a)  Excaliber sword.
5. Attainment of knowledge beyond what is written.

--
Mike Dennis - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Don Allen)
Subject: Noriega Trial
Date: 21 Dec 91 16:45:00 GMT


 JS> Don:
 JS>
 JS> Was it you that told us that Noriega's trial was proceeding
 JS> in Fla.? I know this is gonna sound ridiculous, but could
 JS> you source me on that? Newspapers? Newsmagazines? CNN?
 JS> What's the deal? I still haven't heard word one, and I'm
 JS> beginning to wonder if maybe you misheard, or misread, or
 JS> maybe I did...

Jim..the trial is in it's 10th week..the prosecution just finished
and now the defense is about to get rolling. The prosecution's case
doesn't look all that good.

CNN has only started reporting on it in just the last few days. The
local newspapers have only sparse bits on it down here. The very
next newspaper article I come across on this I will type up and put
here.

Don

--
Don Allen - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Abduction
Date: 22 Dec 91 13:03:00 GMT

>Hi Peggy, thanks for the Richard Price tape. I have listened to
>it several times over and find it fascinating. It contains some
>material the same as the printed article that's on it's way to
>you, and some new material. Thanks again for sending it to me.
>BTW I finished that article on implants I have been working on
>and have despatched it to the International UFO Reporter for
>consideration of publication. Hard proof still evades us,
>despite there being some hearsay material floating around.


I'm so glad the tape reached you safely and proved worth listening
to as well!  It's good to know there was some new material that you
hadn't already come across.  I was intrigued by his mention of the
videotapes and photos in it which, if I understood him correctly,
Price is offering to the public or will be offering for sale
shortly.   If he really does show all those photos he says he has of
his implant, it should be quite something to see.  Will you be
contacting him directly via that address he gave at the end of the
tape?  Perhaps this collection of his photos/video would be a good
addition to UFORA's stocks.
I'm very interested in the article you've sent to International UFO
Reporter (do you have their address, by the way?  I'd like to
contact them too for info on sample copies, subscription prices,
etc.) and will look forward to hearing more when they've accepted
it.    Are you a contract writer for IUFOR?  Or are you at liberty
to offer the same material elsewhere?
Thank you again for the packet of information.  Great stuff!
                                        ==Peggy==
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail]
Subject: Ray Stanford
Date: 22 Dec 91 16:52:00 GMT

>
 > Wasn't that Project Starlight International? I don't
 > know what their status is, but I know someone who
 > would. Contact Dale Goudie at CUFON in Seattle. Don't
 > have his number handy, but its in the 206 area.

Yes is was Project Starlight International.  See for example
Curran's book "In Advance of the Landing" and Ray's own book
"Socorro Saucer in a Pentagon Pantry" for more info.  The
site development re UFO monitoring I believe is now defunct?

 > I just realized I met you in person at the 87 MUFON
 > conference. We shared an elevator in the Bethesda
 > Holiday Inn!

Jim, I was at the 87 conference as a lecturer, but I'm sure
I was at the Bethesda Holiday Inn.  Mind you with jet lag at
various times I wasn't even sure I was on the planet!

Thanks for the reply.
Best regards, Bill Chalker

--
Bill Chalker UFORA Associate NSW - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: UFO BOOK ON COMPUTER
Date: 22 Dec 91 16:55:00 GMT


 > Hi Bill,
 > We'll be waiting to see how to purchase this in U$
 > dollar$.
 > Thanks!
 > Linda

 Thanks for your interest.  As soon as we have this
information we will post it.  Regards from Bill Chalker

--
Bill Chalker UFORA Associate NSW - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: UFO RESEARCH IN AUSTRALIA & NEW ZEALAND digital book info
Date: 23 Dec 91 06:42:00 GMT

Unfortunately at the time the book was released, I was in transit
moving from Adelaide, in South Australia, to Cairns, in Far North
Queensland.  It took a few weeks to get settled here and so I
apologize for not having had the following information sooner.

The book is available directly from:

                              DYNAMO HOUSE Pty Ltd
                              PO BOX 110
                              RICHMOND  VIC  3121
                              AUSTRALIA

TEL: [phone]
  or 61- 03-428- 3636             Fax: [phone]

COST:  Australian $ 30.00 plus postage

POSTAGE:  Air mail to U.S.A. $2.50 (Australian)
          Air mail to U.K.   $3.00 (Australian)

The book can be purchased on VISA credit card, or cheque, (in
Australian currency) and will be despatched by return mail.

Within Australia the above price applies but at local postal rates.

For any further enquiries please contact me direct or, if you prefer,
contact the publisher.

--
Vladimir Godic - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Omni Online
Date: 22 Dec 91 14:29:04 GMT

>Peggy:

>I've noticed that in the last 2 issues of _Omni_ there has been
>no "Antimatter" section and hence, no "UFO Update".  Did they
>drop it or what?
>                                --  John


John,
        No, they tell me that it's one of the most popular features
so it'll be retained.  I think they did this last Christmas too,
though I don't know why...will have to ask sometime.  Should be back
for January.
                                ==Peggy==
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Mysticism
Date: 23 Dec 91 01:08:00 GMT


 > In reference to telepathic communication, Dr. Barbara Young wishes to
 > correspond on the following subjects.
 > 1. Are you interested in training for telepathic communication.
 > 2. Remote viewing.
 > 3. Movement through time.
 > 4. mystical training.
 >      a)  Excaliber sword.
 > 5. Attainment of knowledge beyond what is written.

Who is Dr. Barbara Young, and what are her credentials, etc.?

Thanks,

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Ray Stanford
Date: 23 Dec 91 01:09:00 GMT


 > Yes is was Project Starlight International.  See for example Curran's
 > book "In Advance of the Landing" and Ray's own book "Socorro Saucer in a
 > Pentagon Pantry" for more info.  The site development re UFO monitoring
 > I believe is now defunct?

How can I get a copy of this publication?

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Noriega Trial
Date: 21 Dec 91 20:06:59 GMT

In a message to Jim Speiser <20 Dec 91 07:24> Jim Greenen wrote:

 JG> * Replying to a message originally to Don Allen
 > JS> Don:
 > JS>
 > JS> Was it you that told us that Noriega's trial was proceeding
 > JS> in Fla.? I know this is gonna sound ridiculous, but could
 > JS> you source me on that? Newspapers? Newsmagazines? CNN?
 > JS> What's the deal? I still haven't heard word one, and I'm
 > JS> beginning to wonder if maybe you misheard, or misread, or
 > JS> maybe I did...
 > JS>
 > JS> Jim
 > JS>

 JG> Jim, Don is right and the trial has been going on for sometime.
 JG> Starting next week, the defense will make its presentation on the
 JG> behalf of Noriega. It smells of the James "Bo" Grz trial where it
 JG> was completely black-out from the city limits of Las Vegas. Lars
 JG> Hannson has been covering the trial and has written some news
 JG> articules on it. Can't get a major newspaper or TV station to
 JG> touch it. It makes you wonder just whats going on. 73'S    ---JIM---

I contacted our local PBS station to see if "All Things Considered" had covered
it - if anyone would have, they would have. They did one piece last Monday just
to say that the prosecution had wrapped. The guy told me that as things come
out during the defense, there should be more coverage, "otherwise they deserve
to get their butt kicked."

Does make ya wonder...meantime I'm sure we know EVERYTHING we want to know
about that landmark and historically important William Kennedy Smith case.

Jim

--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Kidd Drive
Date: 23 Dec 91 04:17:32 GMT

In a message to Jim Speiser <21 Dec 91 13:11> Vladimir Godic wrote:

 >> What the heck is the Hieronymous Machine?

 VG> Jim,

 VG> Pardon me  butting in, but I am surprised you don't know what the
 VG> Hieronymous Machine is.

 VG> It is a contraption that will do anything and everything for you.
 VG> We built one many years ago (from drawings and specifications)
 VG> but we were scared to try it out.

In that case, I'm scared to ask why!

Jim


--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Recent New South Wales, Australia, reports
Date: 23 Dec 91 04:56:26 GMT

In a message to All <19 Dec 91 22:58> Bill Chalker UFORA Associ wrote:

 BCUA> Werris Creek.  She reports being followed by strange lights.
 BCUA> They appeared to been 4 red lights in a line with a green light
 BCUA> underneath.  The witness reports the light arrangement followed
 BCUA> her car for several kilometres, and apparently came over her car.
 BCUA> There was a whizzing noise at this point, whereupon there were 2
 BCUA> brief episodes of power loss and all lights going out. When I
 BCUA> interviewed the woman on December 15th, I determined that she did
 BCUA> not actually see the lights pass over her car.  She just presumed
 BCUA> this was the case when she heard the unusual whizzing noise.  She
 BCUA> also told me that at its closest observed point the light display
 BCUA> was in a adjacent paddock, ostensibly hovering above the grass,
 BCUA> but apparently in front of a small hill (but below the summit
 BCUA> line, ie. it clearly was below the skyline and apparently quite
 BCUA> close).  The experience terrified her and her fear was obvious to
 BCUA> those she met when she arrived home.

Any possibility this was a helicopter, Bill? Except for the brief power
outtages, there doesn't seem to be any reason to rule it out.

Jim


--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: *** TV ALERT ***
Date: 23 Dec 91 04:58:16 GMT

In a message to All <21 Dec 91 11:48> ncar!cbmvax.cbm.commodore wrote:


 nc> The Christmas episode of 'Unsolved Mysteries' will be a rebroadcast of the
 nc> season premiere covering the Bentwaters/Rendlesham case.

Jim:

We seem to have a basketball game playing at that time. Is that just us here
in Phoenix?

Jim


--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: ecn.purdue.edu!lush
Subject: (none)
Date: 23 Dec 91 19:33:36 GMT

From: [e-mail] (Gregory B Lush)

?
?  Now, every black helicopter spotted is part of the cover-up. Each
?  new aircraft developed is touted as being a byproduct of 'alien'
?  technology. Every television commercial involving ET's or UFO's is
?  part of the government's 'adjustment and preparation' campaign.
?  'Mysterious' objects, implants, etc. are being found everywhere,
?  but nothing definitive ever comes of these 'breakthroughs'. Our
?  incessant hunger for more information is fed by the purveyors of
?  trash in the UFO periodicals. 'Fringe group' conferences abound
?  everywhere. Stanton Friedman even operates a '900' line where for
?  $2.00/minute, you can listen to old UFO material. What a rip-off!
?  Is that any way for a scientist to gain credibility?
?
?  Everyone seems to collect books, videos, documents, and case
?  histories - but to what end? This doesn't really bring us any
?  closer to the truth, but it does help line the providers pockets.
?  So, where do I think we're all headed? I guess I'll just have to
?  'channel' some Atlantean and find out. <grin>
?
?  Regards,
?
?  Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
?

Well Sheldon, now you and everyone else have the chance to settle
many facets of this issue if not the whole shebang--all at once.

Sen. Patrick Moynihan (sp?) is introducing a bill that would
dismantle the CIA.  This includes finding out how much money
has been spent on the so-called 'Black Projects.'  If people
want this to happen, it could open files relating to all sorts
of things from the Kennedy Assasination, to Drugs/Noriega, to
Drugs/MIA-POWs, to October Surprise, to everything else, and
finally to the alien cover-up.  It would have to be done quickly
as I'm sure much really good stuff would fall through the cracks
or shredders.  I can't imagine a better opportunity to find out
what your government has been doing with your money.  You ought
to be able to know.

One of the ones pushing this so hard is Special Prosecutor,
Laurence Walsh.  I believe he headed the prosecution in the trials
of Oliver North.  He got convictions that were overturned higher up.
It seems he may have found some things that you may want to know.

As evidenced by Sheldon's comments above, many people in this field
of study (UFOs) are frustrated by the lack of growth of knowledge
and information.  Most additions of knowledge/information, when put
under your scrutiny, fall short of whatever it is that people are
looking for to help them decide what is truth.  You now have the
opportunity to find out what you want to know, but only if this is
pursued by *ALL* with speed and diligence.

Why doesn't everyone take some time to write letters to all your
elected officials, both at the State level and the National level?
Write to Moynihan.  Also write to those out of your voting area who
are on the appropriate committees, such as Defense, National Security
(I don't know the names of all the committees).  If you want to push
the alien question, include with the letter some piece of evidence
that is convincing to you--not necessarily that aliens exist, but
that something is going on and say that you want to know the truth.

Some people seemed pretty impressed by the new Roswell book.  You can
copy excerpts from that or anything else.  What about the letter by
Barry Goldwater at the beginning of 'Above Top Secret' about how he
could not get in to see the hangars that have so many rumours swirling
about them?  I think that is an important point--that the elected
representatives cannot get in to see what is inside and are now
allowed to know how much funding has been allocated to what project.
Why not demand of *YOUR* government *SERVANTS* that they open up
*ALL* those hangars and show what is inside.  The Cold War is supposed
to be over, so there should be nothing to hide, right? If you really
want to see what that smell is, start stirring the pot. If you receive
no reply or an evasive reply, write back and demand an appropriate
response.  There is quite a number of people who read this
newsletter, and the various other billboards and such.
Together, an impact can be made.

We all could really get things moving.  There *ARE* still some
good people left in Congress/Senate; they will listen if enough
people shout--it's an election year upcoming.  I'm not saying
that they are going to open up the files right away, but by making
them address the issue, you make them sweat.  It can't hurt, and I
believe it will help somehow.  We also need to open all those files
that were closed as 'Top Secret' because of "National Security."
I really don't see how anything else could tell show much in such
a short period of time.

I think this is the opportunity many have been crying for.
What do you all think?

Greg ([e-mail])





--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Greenen)
Subject: Suicides?
Date: 23 Dec 91 15:57:00 GMT


 SW>
 SW> In a message to Vladimir Godic <17-Dec-91> Jim Greenen
 SW> wrote:
 SW>
 SW> JG> In America, there is a high percentage of researchers in UFOs
 SW> JG> and government secrets that commit suicide....
 SW>
 SW> Hi Jim,
 SW>
 SW> That's a very interesting statement you've made there!
 SW> Would it be
 SW> possible for you to cite the source(s) of your data, and be
 SW> a bit
 SW> more specific as to what constitutes "a *high percentage*
 SW> of
 SW> researchers in UFO's". Additionally, how about elaborating
 SW> on a few
 SW> of the more notable ufological suicides?
 SW>
 SW> 73's back to ya --
 SW>
 SW> Sheldon, N9EHL @ 1:11/50

   Well, lets see--- We got Dr. James McDonald, Morris K. Jessup to
name 2. Also according to Lars Hannson, there were 3 this year that
commited suicide. One was the person that uncovered the Inslaw
dealings.
   I'm not really good with names but I can get ahold with Lars
(seems to have disappeared) I could get you the names. Not all these
people that research or are involved with Ufology or other reseach
commit ssuicid. Some seem to meet with unfortunate accidents. The 20
+ witnesses that were involved in the JFK shooting is a prime
example. I think some one did a study on that and the findings was
that for this to happen it would be 1 in one trillion chance. Pretty
stiff odds I would think that there was some hanky-panky going on.
73'S    ---JIM--- WB8ZII
--
Jim Greenen - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Greenen)
Subject: An Interesting Development ...
Date: 23 Dec 91 16:08:01 GMT


 JS> In a message to Vladimir Godic <17 Dec 91 08:16> Jim
 JS> Greenen wrote:
 JS>
 JS>
 JS>  JG>  Vlad; The strongest instincts that a man has is survival then
 JS>  JG> comes that 3 letter wo that sounds like the number 6. Can you
 JS>  JG> blame anyone for not coming forward if there is a strong
 JS>  JG> possibility that he might commit suicide
 JS>  JG> shortly after he announces his name.
 JS>  JG>   In America, there is a high percentage of researchers in UFOs
 JS>  JG> and government secrets that commit suicide. Its very strange but
 JS>  JG> it seems to happen very quick. One minute they are hot on the
 JS>  JG> trail of something big and the next minute they went insane and
 JS>  JG> commited suicide.
 JS>
 JS> The only two I can think of are Morris K. Jessup and James
 JS> McDonald. Jessup I'm not sure about, but McDonald, I am
 JS> assured, had some bad family problems. His suicide was no
 JS> mystery. Under your scenario, why didn't Hynek take his own
 JS> life long before brain cancer claimed him? And why doesn't
 JS> Mr. Ed do the same?
 JS>
 JS>
 JS>  JG>   From what I heard is that the "Premier Researcher was
 JS>  JG> approched by the FBI and was threaten to disclose this persons name.
 JS>
 JS> Jim, are there any circumstances under which you will NOT
 JS> believe that same old chestnut time and time again? Even
 JS> David Jones, who posted the original message about the
 JS> supposed "informant", has admitted the whole thing was
 JS> probably a hoax.
 JS>
 JS> Jim
 JS>

   Jim, I was just relaying what I heard about the person that
Wendelle had from Area 51 was going to disclose some information and
he was approched by the FBI. I didn't say it was fact.
   When I say that I believe that the Meier case is real, it is my
on opinion and not to be accepted as fact. I am not the world
authority and the final say on these cases.
73'S    ---JIM---
--
Jim Greenen - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Hicks)
Subject: Crop circles
Date: 24 Dec 91 05:44:01 GMT


 > "London, Oct 27 PA A leading scientist investigating crop circles now
 > says that all but the simple circles are the work of hoaxers.

  If he said "all," looks like he's got his work cut out for him supplying
supporting evidence for his statement regarding "all" of the complex formations.

                                           jbh

--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Don Allen)
Subject: Mysticism
Date: 24 Dec 91 08:07:06 GMT


 * Replying to a message originally to All

 MD> In reference to telepathic communication, Dr. Barbara Young
 MD> wishes to
 MD> correspond on the following subjects.

 MD> 2. Remote viewing.
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I'm interested in this but it's probably best if we move this
over to the General area.

Don

--
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UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
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********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to********
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******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************

                Info-ParaNet Newsletters   Volume I  Number 518

                           Thursday, January 9th 1992

Today's Topics:

                             Re: UFORA DIGITAL BOOK
                                  Re: Suicides?
                                    Mysticism
                           Re: Re^2: Firsthand Account
                         An Interesting Development ...
                         An Interesting Development ...
                                 Moynihan's Bill
                                  UFO Suicides?
                              Re: hieronymous, etc.
                                  Crop Circles
                                  Crop Circles
                            CUFOS Abduction Videotape
                            Fido/Para net boards in t
                                  UFO Magazine
                                  Re: Suicides?
                         An Interesting Development ...
                         An Interesting Development ...
                                   Kidd Drive
                             Australia crop circles
                                     UFOCAT
                                    Visitors
                                  UFO Magazine
                              Rendelsham/Bentwaters

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: UFORA DIGITAL BOOK
Date: 25 Dec 91 05:12:00 GMT

Hi Vlad,

Thanks for info on computer "book."  Will have to wait until after my
wallet recovers from Christmas before I can get it, however!

Merry Christmas to Down Under!

Linda

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Suicides?
Date: 25 Dec 91 05:20:00 GMT

Hi Jim,

In a recent message, you said something to the effect that the 20 +
witnesses of the Kennedy assassination met with "unfortunate
accidents."  Could you elaborate a bit on this?  I'm dismayed to learn
this, but somehow am NOT surprised.

Best,

Linda

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Pony Godic)
Subject: Mysticism
Date: 24 Dec 91 06:48:00 GMT


 > In reference to telepathic communication, Dr. Barbara Young
 > wishes to
 > correspond on the following subjects.
 > 1. Are you interested in training for telepathic communication.
 > 2. Remote viewing.
 > 3. Movement through time.
 > 4. mystical training.
 >      a)  Excaliber sword.
 > 5. Attainment of knowledge beyond what is written.

Mike,

I'd like to make a tentative enquiry re the above.  Firstly, is a
person on the other side of the world like me eligible.

Of the points listed, I am very interested in developing whatever
latent telepahic abilities I might have.  However, I believe that
there has to be compatibility between sender and receiver and that
messages with emotional and or strong visual content should be employed
rather than cards.  I think cards completely silly myself.  Like trying
to catch a tiger with a picture of a mouse trap.  I must confess
ignorance re remote viewing and movement through time.  Mystical
training doesn't interest me at all.  I like to deal with things in
simple and practical terms.  Excaliber sword is just another "?" to me.
Attainment of knowledge beyond what is written is another ?.  I think
that clairvoyance is a mix of precognition and telepathy all of which
is left up to the clairvoyant to sort out as best he/she can which
often means imaginative intervention and personal biases coming into
play.  Anyway, I'm raving.  I'm interested in serious psychic
research, but not in courses on spiritual development and especially
not in anything that necessitates me parting with money, so if that's
what the above is, then I've wasted your time with this response.

Cheers,
Pony Godic - UFORA Secretary

--
Pony Godic - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: Re: Re^2: Firsthand Account
Date: 24 Dec 91 07:04:00 GMT


 > My point is: question your senses at night, from experience,
 > depth perception
 > is not as good at night (you can test this by going outside on a
 > very dark
 > starry night and looking straight up, if you have a difficult
 > time remaining
 > steady you will see what I mean). During a full moon, go outside
 > with 4 coins
 > a penny, nickle, dime, and quarter. Estimate mentally which coin
 > held at arms
 > length most closely estimates the size the moon (NEXT FULL DEC
 > 21). Then

What is the purpose of your message?  You are not tellings us something we do
not know. Most of us here, on Paranet, are experienced UFO researchers.

--
Vladimir Godic - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
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From: [e-mail] (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: An Interesting Development ...
Date: 24 Dec 91 08:40:00 GMT


 >    In America, there is a high percentage of researchers in UFOs
 > and government secrets that commit suicide. Its very strange but
 > it seems to happen very quick. One minute they are hot on the
 > trail of something big and the next minute they went insane and
 > commited suicide.

Jim,

OK. But why does this happen only in America?
We don't we have that problem here in Australia?

Vlad

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From: [e-mail] (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: An Interesting Development ...
Date: 26 Dec 91 06:36:00 GMT


 > Jim, are there any circumstances under which you will NOT
 > believe that same old chestnut time and time again? Even David
 > Jones, who posted the original message about the supposed
 > "informant", has admitted the whole thing was probably a hoax.

Jim,

In my original statement I said - I had certain doubts about Wendelle
Stevens being "Premier UFO Researcher".

I agree with you again . It is beyond me that anybody can call
Stevens the "premier researcher' when we all know that he was involved
with the Eduard "Billy" Meier case. Enough said.
Vlad

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From: [e-mail] (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Moynihan's Bill
Date: 25 Dec 91 23:28:02 GMT

GL> Why doesn't everyone take some time to write letters to all your
GL> elected officials, both at the State level and the National level?
GL> Write to Moynihan.  Also write to those out of your voting area who
GL> are on the appropriate committees, such as Defense, National Security
GL> (I don't know the names of all the committees).

GL> We all could really get things moving. There *ARE* still some
GL> good people left in Congress/Senate; they will listen if enough
GL> people shout--it's an election year upcoming. I'm not saying
GL> that they are going to open up the files right away, but by making
GL> them address the issue, you make them sweat. It can't hurt, and I
GL> believe it will help somehow. We also need to open all those files
GL> that were closed as 'Top Secret' because of "National Security."
GL> I really don't see how anything else could tell show much in such
GL> a short period of time.

GL> I think this is the opportunity many have been crying for.
GL> What do you all think?

 Greg: I believe you're absolutely correct, and I think you've done such
 a great job here that I'd like to see you carry this one step further.

 I've found through experience that many individuals just won't take the
 initiative to compose a letter and mail it off to their respective
 elected officials. However, if they're provided with a 'fill in the blank'
 type document, the job's a lot more likely to get done.

 How about putting together a petition, and circulating it around the
 networks? See what you got yourself into! <g>

 Thanks,

 Sheldon Wernikoff

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From: [e-mail] (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: UFO Suicides?
Date: 25 Dec 91 23:29:03 GMT


In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <23-Dec-91 08:57> Jim Greenen
wrote:

JG> In America, there is a high percentage of researchers in
JG> UFO's and government secrets that commit suicide....

SW> ...be a bit more specific as to what constitutes "a *high
SW> percentage* of researchers in UFO's". Additionally, how about
SW> elaborating on a few of the more notable ufological suicides?

JG> Well, lets see--- We got Dr. James McDonald, Morris K. Jessup
JG> to name 2. Also according to Lars Hannson, there were 3 this
JG> year that committed suicide. One was the person that uncovered
JG> the Inslaw dealings.

Jim: From what I understand, Jessup's death was ruled accidental.
(I know you're going to claim it was a cover-up). McDonald's death
apparently was a suicide, but has been attributed to chronic
personal difficulties, not something as exotic as his UFO
interests.

Also, you really haven't answered my question as to what
constitutes "a HIGH PERCENTAGE of researchers in UFO's... that
commit suicide". I am looking for a numeric value here.

By "high percentage", am I correct in assuming that you mean higher
than the national average? According to Hewitt Associates,
actuarial consultants, suicide is the observed cause of death in 1
in 1150 of the aggregate U.S. population, a rate of approximately
0.09%. To make any mathematically accurate inference from your
observed data, you would have to demonstrate that greater than 1 in
1150 ufologists commit suicide. Then, even if there was a
significantly higher percentage, you would have to rule out other
variables. For example, frustration is a leading cause of suicide,
and I think you'll agree that ufology is certainly a frustrating
field. You also have to ask yourself exactly what constitutes a
'ufologist'? Think about it.

Take care,

Sheldon


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From: [e-mail] (Kay Mclaughlin)
Subject: Re: hieronymous, etc.
Date: 22 Dec 91 15:32:00 GMT


 JS> opener? HAHAHAHA! That's gonna go in my list of The Ten Most
 JS> Outlandish Claims of All Time.
 JS> Lessee, so far I've got...

 JS> Lizard Man
 JS> Elvis Lives
 JS> Bielek's Philadelphia Story
 JS> The Driver Shot Kennedy
 JS> The Diagram Works as Well as the Machine

 JS> Any other candidates?

The Shroud of Turin?

Regards,
Kay

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From: [e-mail] (Richard Salts)
Subject: Crop Circles
Date: 23 Dec 91 15:59:26 GMT

I have been reading about the phenomena of crop circles for quite a
while in the UFO literature and I have a question about this subject.

In what way are these things supposed to be revelant to UFO's?  I
have no idea where they are supposed to fit into the  UFO mystery but
I see that they are being given a great deal of attention in the
UFO on this echo and so I am curious about how these things "fit" in
with UFO Studies.

 Anyone know?

 ... Rich

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From: [e-mail] (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Crop Circles
Date: 28 Dec 91 06:44:01 GMT



In a message to All <23-Dec-91> Richard Salts wrote:

RS> I have been reading about the phenomena of crop circles for
RS> quite a while in the UFO literature and I have a question about
RS> this subject.

RS> In what way are these things supposed to be revelant to UFO's?
RS> I have no idea where they are supposed to fit into the  UFO
RS> mystery but I see that they are being given a great deal of
RS> attention in the UFO on this echo and so I am curious about how
RS> these things "fit" in with UFO Studies.


Hi Richard,

The purported link is twofold. First of all, eye-witnesses have
recited accounts of UFO's being observed just prior to crop circle
discovery. At present, this evidence is anecdotal, although the
growing number of reports is certainly suggestive that something
*is* being perceived. In the case of the crop circles, I would
prefer to use the term *UAP* (Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon),
since what is being seen may not be "flying" and may not actually
be an "object".

The second correlation to UFO's is a rather tenuous one, but many
people believe that the growing complexity and evolution of the
circles is a sure sign of a "superior intelligence"; and that
intelligence is originating from UFO's.

I hope I have helped a bit with your problem. My advice is to
continue with your studies, keep asking questions, and ultimately
you'll find the answers.

Best of luck,

Sheldon

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From: [e-mail] (Mark Rodeghier)
Subject: CUFOS Abduction Videotape
Date: 26 Dec 91 22:39:00 GMT


 JS>  > In the spirit of Bill Chalker's recent post concerning the new
 JS>  > Australian UFO
 JS>  > book on computer diskette, I wanted to make everyone  in this forum
 JS>  > aware of
 JS>  > the newly-produced Center for UFO Studies videotape on the abduction
 JS>  > phenomenon.
 JS>
 JS> Thanks for making the tape available, Mark. I shall place
 JS> my order as soon as I've cleared up my Christmas bills. It
 JS> sounds like a winner!
 JS>
 JS> By the way, if you are still in need of French translators,
 JS> I have one ready and waiting. I'll send you his address.
 JS>
 JS> Jim
 JS>

Jim,

        Must be time to clear up a little mix up...My name is Mark Rodeghier
but I'm not the same one you are probably thinking of.  The one you deal
with lives in Chicago and is a UFO expert.  At best, I'm probably a distant
cousin of his since much of my family came from Chicago via Italy.  If you
or anyone else knows how I can contact him, pleas let me know.  I would like
to meet my 'twin'.

Mark Rodeghier from Orlando

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From: [e-mail] (Steve Dixon)
Subject: Fido/Para net boards in t
Date: 20 Dec 91 22:50:05 GMT

To: mrc-crc.ac.uk!sgamble

 On 12-04-91 NCAR!MRC-CRC.AC.UK!SGAMBL wrote...

 > BUFORA has been giving consideration to establishing a UFO board in
 > the UK. There is no immediate launch planned but it is really a case
 > of when rather than if we do it.

 Is there anybody that you know of taking these (and other) echoes in
 the UK? I'm in the UK and currently get my feed from Dieter Hummell,
 but if there's already a UK source being fed then maybe we could come
 to some arrangement? Hope you don't mind me asking but you never know
 unless you ask someone do you? ;-)

Cheers! .............. Steve


 ... OFFLINE 1.24 * Mists Of Avalon BBS! 44-268-284073.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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From: [e-mail] (Ian Harper)
Subject: UFO Magazine
Date: 21 Dec 91 07:34:00 GMT

Hi can you please tell me where i can get a copy of this mag, as it sounds very
interesting. i live in a town in the UK called Basildon and we find it hard to
get hold of this kind of info (that was before we got paranet)
I hope you dont mind me asking? bye for now.......IAN HARPER
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From: [e-mail] (Jim Greenen)
Subject: Re: Suicides?
Date: 27 Dec 91 16:14:00 GMT


 LB> Hi Jim,
 LB>
 LB> In a recent message, you said something to the effect that
 LB> the 20 +
 LB> witnesses of the Kennedy assassination met with
 LB> "unfortunate accidents."  Could you elaborate a bit on
 LB> this?  I'm dismayed to learn this, but somehow am NOT
 LB> surprised.
 LB>
 LB> Best,
 LB>
 LB> Linda

  Hi Linda; Hope you had a nice xmas. I can't give you all the
details on this but it has been written up in a few books. I have
somewhere in my scramble mess of a office, the articule on this.
   I was watching a show a couple of weeks ago (I think it was
Geraldo) and she claimed to have been there at the time and her girl
friend took a couple of phot,s during the incident and was approched
by 2 agents of the government and demand that she hand over the
prints (she was butting them in her pocket as her friend was taken
them).
  She was ask why she didn't come forward before this and her reply
was that she is only one of 3 person remaining that were witnesses
to the killing. She also mention that 20+ witness all died within a
short period of time and she didn't want to be the next one.
   There is a lot more to her story then what I told but she said
that they took her up to a room in the Book depostory and was
interrogated for a couple of hours.
   I think that this has been written up in most of the books and
also was mention in the movie JFK. Like I mention before, someone
ran a probability on this happening and his findings were better
then 1 to 1 trillion of this happening. Some of the causes of death:
suicide, hit and run accidents, karate chop to the back of head, car
accidents, etc.     73'S    ---JIM---
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From: [e-mail] (Jim Greenen)
Subject: An Interesting Development ...
Date: 27 Dec 91 16:37:01 GMT


 VG>  >    In America, there is a high percentage of researchers in UFOs
 VG>  > and government secrets that commit suicide. Its very strange but
 VG>  > it seems to happen very quick. One minute they are hot on the
 VG>  > trail of something big and the next minute they went insane and
 VG>  > commited suicide.
 VG> Jim,
 VG>
 VG> OK. But why does this happen only in America?
 VG> We don't we have that problem here in Australia?
 VG>
 VG> Vlad

  I can't answer that question but I would guess that most of the
information that exist on UFOs is kept in the files of the unelected
government in this country or some people call the parallel
government.
   I was headed for Australia 24 years ago to live because I always
had a love for that country. I met my wife a few months before I was
ready to leave and now my Australia money is on her 3rd finger of
her left hand.
  As a Ham operator, I have talked to many in your country and get
this feeling of still wanting to go over there when I talk to them.
Maybe when I hit the lotto I can make my dream come true.
  Sorry for rattling on like that. Back to the subject, if you talk
to some of the people that have been heavly involved in this subject
they will tell you that they have been approched and sometimes
warned to back off. One comes to lite is a couple who I had a chance
to talk to last month, George and Shirley Coyne. They were harrased
just before they left on their trip in September. They have quite a
story to tell.
   Maybe someday these records will be opened and the truth will
come out. Be careful when dealing with this subject and others
during your investigations. A lot of joint adventures going on
between our 2 countries and this country playes hard ball sometimes
when you get too close to the facts.
  73'S    ---JIM---
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From: [e-mail] (Don Allen)
Subject: An Interesting Development ...
Date: 27 Dec 91 23:42:00 GMT


Hooo boyy..we are fixing to get a major thread started on this :-)

The thread thus far is:
+++++++++++++++++++++++

 VG>  > Jim, are there any circumstances under which you will NOT
 VG>  > believe that same old chestnut time and time again? Even David
 VG>  > Jones, who posted the original message about the supposed
 VG>  > "informant", has admitted the whole thing was probably a hoax.
 VG>
 VG> Jim,
 VG>
 VG> In my original statement I said - I had certain doubts
 VG> about Wendelle Stevens being "Premier UFO Researcher".
 VG>
 VG> I agree with you again . It is beyond me that anybody can
 VG> call Stevens the "premier researcher' when we all know that
 VG> he was involved with the Eduard "Billy" Meier case. Enough
 VG> said.

Without getting into a major battle of "who is right, and who ain't"..
I'm curious as to why both Jim Speiser and Vlad feel this way..

I sorta know why Jim is from previous postings..he can elaborate further
on this if he wishes;however Vlad, why does Wendelle's involvement
in the Billy Meier case "taint" him in your eyes?

Also, I'd like to add that in my opinion, I see some parallels with the
Meier case and Gulfbreeze as regards to belief systems in each and as
far as I have been able to tell, there hasn't been conclusive evidence
presented in either case to either prove it or declare both cases a
"hoax". Both of these cases are *religious arguments*, in my opinion.
Which is to say, that some people WILL "believe" that Ed and his
photos are real..and some people WILL NOT. The "nuts and bolts"
people want/need totally irrefutable and absolutely conclusive
proof..ie..the craft itself,metal samples that are rigorously tested
by more than 3 labs..photos/video from several people that all
jived and were tested at JPL..an *actual* "alien"..etc..



Of course,GB wouldn't be the _issue_ it is IF SOMEONE ELSE HAD
PHOTOS OF THE CRAFT OTHER THAN ED..I could also make the same argument
for Billy Meier's case as well I suppose if the Elders and Wendelle
Stevens _were not_ involved.. -OR- if the MUFON investigators hadn't
found the models used by Stevens/Elders in the barn on Billy's
property and..or if actual negs were in the possession of impartial
investigators who *don't* have "hidden agendas". I suppose if we
are going to drag out "chestnuts" in both cases..someone will mention
the missing metal sample that Marcel Vogel had (let's not forget that
he also liked to talk to house plants :-)  I've seen a lot of "Meier
is/has hoaxed the film..the wires are holding up the beamships" type
discussions..but NO PROOF has ever surfaced to substantiate those
claims..no one has PROVED that Meier has hoaxed anything...but
conversly, no independent investigator (other than Stevens/Elders
and the Japanese) has proved Meier's case ABSOLUTELY. It would be
nice if Asket or Semjase would be gracious enough to pose for
pictures :-)

Quite a few people "down here" in Florida have seen the GB type II
craft..but the heart of the issue with GB is that *no one* except
Ed Walters has taken the _type_ of "Ed Craft" photos that he has..mostly,
it's been the "red light" variety. True, there _has_ been obvious attempts
at hoaxes with the balloon-lofted red flares. True, there has been lots
and lots of controversy over Ed's photos and MUFON's out-on-a-limb stance
on GB, Maccabee's stubborness over not turning over the negs for outside
(read=JPL) analysis,Ed's book,etc...


John Powell just posted a very interesting file called "GBUFOS.N91" on the
Fido UFO echo...maybe it will shed more light...or maybe it will add
a bit more fuel to the controversy.

I "believe" that both cases are real..however, I cannot prove them
satisfactorily to skeptics, but that's just my opinion. Every person
has their own index for what kinds of "proof" they will accept as being
real/acceptable to them. To me, both GB and the Meier case are labeled
"religious".

Happy Holidays to ya!

Don

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From: [e-mail] (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: Kidd Drive
Date: 27 Dec 91 00:11:00 GMT


 >  VG> It is a contraption that will do anything and everything for you.
 > VG> We built one many years ago (from drawings and specifications)
 > VG> but we were scared to try it out.
 >
 > In that case, I'm scared to ask why!
 >
 > Jim

Jim,

I don't blame you.

Vlad

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From: [e-mail] (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Australia crop circles
Date: 24 Dec 91 04:09:00 GMT

Thanks to all who have suggested, seriously and tounge in cheek why we
haven't had an outburst of crop circles down this way, despite some
bumper wheat crops here in South Australia.

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From: [e-mail] (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: UFOCAT
Date: 24 Dec 91 04:10:00 GMT

Thanks for your reply on this subject Mark, after just finishing four
years part time at Uni, I know what you mean about workload.

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From: [e-mail] (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Visitors
Date: 24 Dec 91 04:14:00 GMT

I think I must have been reading far too much material on abductions
recently. I woke up in the middle of last night to distinctly hear a
woman's voice softly calling my first name. I came to consciousness,
and opened my eyes to look around the darkened room. The first thought
which popped into my mind was, "Oh no! Don't let there be anything
there." There wasn't, and I fell back to sleep, mightly relieved that
there really aren't any aliens out there in the middle of the night
implanting us. But, for just a few seconds...

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From: [e-mail] (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: UFO Magazine
Date: 24 Dec 91 04:18:00 GMT

There was some talk six months ago about trying to get the mag
distributed down under. Did anything come of this? If not could you
please supply me with the mailing address and current US$ price for a
year's subs and I'll sub direct. The tantalising items I see here, need
to be explored in full with a personal copy. Thanks.

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From: [e-mail] (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Rendelsham/Bentwaters
Date: 24 Dec 91 04:24:00 GMT

Hi, I received a copy of the UK Magazine Fortean Times tonight. In it
there is mention of a new book by Jenny Randles on this event. "From
Out of the Blue" is the title. It is apparently a review of the case
from 10 years after the initial investigation. New data and
conclusions. The FT says it is available in the US from Global
Communications, Box 753, New Brunswick NJ 08903 USA-US$18 including
postage.

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********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to********
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******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************

                Info-ParaNet Newsletters   Volume I  Number 519

                           Friday, January 10th 1992

Today's Topics:

                                  Dr. Levengood
                                hieronymous, etc.
                            CUFOS Abduction Videotape
                                  Crop Circles
                         An Interesting Development ...
                                Re: UFO SUICIDES?
                                   JFK MYSTERY
                              Re: *** TV ALERT ***
                                 Amazon Question
                         An Interesting Development ...
                              The Bennewitz Papers
                               Calvin Knows Better
                                  Noriega Trial
                                    Suicides?
                                    Suicides?
                                  Re: Suicides?
                            Re: Rendelsham/Bentwaters
                                    Visitors
                                    Nephilim
                                   CIS message
                                    AVRO Car

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Dr. Levengood
Date: 29 Dec 91 01:35:01 GMT

To: [e-mail] (Cassandra)

Hello Cassandra,

It's been quite some time since I provided you with Dr. Levengood's
phone #.

Have you had any luck in discussing/obtaining the crop circle seed
specimens you were interested in?

If so, what are your thoughts and comments on Levengood's work?

Take care,

Sheldon Wernikoff

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From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: hieronymous, etc.
Date: 28 Dec 91 15:51:07 GMT

In a message to Jim Speiser <22 Dec 91 08:32> Kay Mclaughlin wrote:

 > JS> opener? HAHAHAHA! That's gonna go in my list of The Ten Most
 > JS> Outlandish Claims of All Time.
 > JS> Lessee, so far I've got...

 > JS> Lizard Man
 > JS> Elvis Lives
 > JS> Bielek's Philadelphia Story
 > JS> The Driver Shot Kennedy
 > JS> The Diagram Works as Well as the Machine

 > JS> Any other candidates?

 KM> The Shroud of Turin?


Mmmmm.....I dunno, Kay, that one had me going for a while...course, that just
may be my own gullibility...

Jim


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From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: CUFOS Abduction Videotape
Date: 28 Dec 91 15:52:33 GMT

In a message to Jim Speiser <26 Dec 91 15:39> Mark Rodeghier wrote:


 MR> Jim,

 MR>        Must be time to clear up a little mix up...My name is
 MR> Mark Rodeghier but I'm not the same one you are probably thinking
 MR> of.  The one you deal with lives in Chicago and is a UFO expert.
 MR> At best, I'm probably a distant cousin of his since much of my
 MR> family came from Chicago via Italy.  If you or anyone else knows
 MR> how I can contact him, pleas let me know.  I would like to meet my 'twin'.

 MR> Mark Rodeghier from Orlando


Mark Rodeghier from Orlando, meet Mark Rodeghier from Chicago. He's on here,
and has already responded to the above message. He should be saying hi shortly.

Jim

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From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Crop Circles
Date: 28 Dec 91 16:08:52 GMT

In a message to All <23 Dec 91 08:59> Richard Salts wrote:

 RS> I have been reading about the phenomena of crop circles for quite a
 RS> while in the UFO literature and I have a question about this subject.

 RS> In what way are these things supposed to be revelant to UFO's?  I
 RS> have no idea where they are supposed to fit into the  UFO mystery but
 RS> I see that they are being given a great deal of attention in the
 RS> UFO on this echo and so I am curious about how these things "fit" in
 RS> with UFO Studies.

 RS> Anyone know?




 ...they're round?


Jim

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From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: An Interesting Development ...
Date: 28 Dec 91 16:15:24 GMT

In a message to Vladimir Godic <27 Dec 91 16:42> Don Allen wrote:


 DA> I "believe" that both cases are real..however, I cannot prove them
 DA> satisfactorily to skeptics, but that's just my opinion. Every person
 DA> has their own index for what kinds of "proof" they will accept as being
 DA> real/acceptable to them. To me, both GB and the Meier case are labeled
 DA> "religious".

 DA> Happy Holidays to ya!

 DA> Don

Don: As long as you label the cases "religious," that's fine, I have no
argument with you. My problem is that you accuse the skeptics of demanding
absolute concrete proof of reality, yet you seem to demand the same in the
opposite direction. Thankfully, human thinking is not strictured by such binary
logic. It is possible to come to a _tentative_ conclusion based on the evidence
amassed thus far. You yourself admit that the evidence tips the scale heavily
toward the hoax side (at least, the litany of negative elements you recite sure
sound like a preponderance of negative evidence). Surely intelligent men like
Stevens must see this. Yet he continues to defend the case on _scientific_
(note: not religious) grounds. This, coupled with the fact that he is now
singing the praises of a cocktail waitress who claims to have been born on
Venus, and is able to channel Venusians....need I go on?


Happy Holidays to you too!

Jim

--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Pete Porro)
Subject: Re: UFO SUICIDES?
Date: 27 Dec 91 18:23:20 GMT

Maybe most of the dentists and psychiatrists are interested in UFO's? That
would include the highest risk groups? If frustration and stress are the
greatest causes, I better buy a plot right away. But that has nothing to do
with UFO's, just Goof-O's.  8*)
--
Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Pete Porro)
Subject: JFK MYSTERY
Date: 27 Dec 91 19:15:51 GMT

From: EA RICHARDS
  To: THE ALPHANS
Subj: CONSPIRACY/MYSTERY/DEATH JFK-I
Was anyone ever put on trial for the assassination of John F. Kennedy?

Remember that New Orleans District Attorney, Jim Garrison, who thought he had
some answers to the JFK mystery?  He indicted a man named Clay Shaw, whom
Garrison accused of being involved in the killing along with a group of
Castro-Cubans, and actually tried him in a New Orleans Parish court.

Clay Shaw was acquitted, but soon afterward was found dead in his home under
circumstances which could only be construed as suspicious.  Shaw was only one
of the many individuals connected to this greatest of contemporary
mystery/conspiracies surrounding the murder of JFK, whose death followed an
unusual pattern.

Despite the many reports and books written about the Kennedy case, it would yet
appear that the tragic events on and after that tragic day are still a knitting
mills horror of loose ends, of timely coincidences too well placed to be
coincidental.  For example, the inexplicably high mortality rate for
individuals unlucky enough to have been associated with the case.  Oddity?
Or design!  For example:

John F. Kennedy, the president

Lee Harvey Oswald, the alleged killer of John Kennedy.

Jack Sangetti, A lounge owner who told friends Ruby would kill Oswald.

Betty Mooney MacDonald, Carousel Club Stripper, picked up by the Dallas Police,
found hanged in her cell.

Darrel Garner, accused of wounding witness who saw officer Tippet shot.

Officer Tippet.

Hank Killiam, husband of stripper Wanda Killiam.

Gary Underhill, Life Magazine Editor, CIA Agent, who begged for protection
because he said he knew who killed JFK, found shot in left temple, called
suicide even though he was right-handed.

Bill Hunter, reporter, who had met with Ruby's lawyer a few hours after the
killing, shot 'accidently' by a policeman at the Long Beach, CA station.

Jim Koethe, killed by karate chop to throat, present at above meeting.

Mary Meyer, one of JFK'S girlfriends, shot while taking a walk in a D.C. park,
her dairy confiscated and destroyed.

Frank Chavez, friend of Ruby's, killed by his own bodyguard.

Tom Howard, Ruby's lawyer, died of 'a mysterious heart attack.'

Rose Charami, Carousel stripper, who told her psychiatrist that JFK would be
killed, 48 hours prior, who had often seen Oswald with Jack Ruby.

Dorothy Kilgallen, famous writer and TV personality, who spoke to Ruby for over
a half-hour, afterwards saying she would 'break the JFK case wide open,' of an
apparent overdose of alcohol and barbiturates.

William Whaley, who drove Oswald home, killed in auto crash.

Karen Carlin, Carousel Club entertainer, last to speak to Ruby before he killed
Oswald, killed herself by gunshot to head.

Navy Lt. William Pitzer, photographer of JFK autopsy, gunshot to head.

Jack Ruby, supposedly of cancer.

David Ferrie, witness in Shaw trial, suspicious suicide.

Lladio Del Valle, Cuban, shot through heart.

Dr. Mary Sherman, shot.

Robert Kennedy, supposedly shot by Sirhan Sirhan (who only remembers hitting
Kennedy in the shoulder.  Guard E. Cesar had the same caliber pistol with him.

Clyde Johnson, who had attended parties with Ferrie, Ruby, and Oswald, shot to
death near Greensburg, La.

Clay Shaw, as described previously.

Ex-Deputy Roger Craig, who said he had seen a man resembling Oswald leaving the
assassination site, found shot to death, ruled a suicide.

Mob figures killed to halt possible revelations:  Sam Giancanna, Johnny
Roselli, William Harvey, Sheffield Edward, Mickey Cohen.

George DeMorenschildt, sought by a house committee, shot, alleged suicide.

Carlos Prio Sacarras, ex-Pres. of Cuba, Ruby's casino partner, suicide.

Lou Staples, TV talk show host who interviewed the JFK investigators, found
shot and killed in Oklahoma.

This particular list is up-to-date as of 1978, about 12 years ago. Since that
time more people have vanished from the scene in numbers too high to be
considered a normal attrition rate.  Were the above mentioned people eliminated
because of what they may or may not have known, or would they have died anyway
in due course?  Did Oswald really make a miraculous shot and kill Kennedy who
was riding in a moving car, or was it someone else?

Comments?

I have a couple more around here with some more interesting connections, but
this is the one you asked about. This message is from the ALPHA echo which
regularly deals with any topic. It's available from 154/0 by request and I
know a few systems around the country carry it. (but not many) EA Richards is
the moderator and the home of the echo is Radio Free Milwaukee, AKA Paranet
XI-Alpha. Alpha also has discussions on paranormal when it comes up, the USS
Liberty, foods and beverage, BCCI, and anything else. It might be called a
general echo, so nothing is off topic. Seems to lean towards politics and
humor most often though. (they are the same right?)
--
Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (John Hrusovszky)
Subject: Re: *** TV ALERT ***
Date: 26 Dec 91 05:03:15 GMT


 nc> The Christmas episode of 'Unsolved Mysteries' will be a rebroadcast of
 nc> season premiere covering the Bentwaters/Rendlesham case.

JS> Jim:

JS> We seem to have a basketball game playing at that time. Is that just us
JS> in Phoenix?

Nope.  Just finished watching it.  And right afterwards, a Special
Speech by President Bush -- about the breakup of Russia!  Then the
basketball game.  What a letdown!



--
John Hrusovszky - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
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From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Amazon Question
Date: 29 Dec 91 15:46:00 GMT

The Rocky Mountain News
Page 42
Monday, December 23, 1991
Science Watch (column)

Anthropology
Lost civilization found

  Archeologists hae discovered a lost
civilization in the Amazon jungle that
dates to about 6,000 B.C.,
_The Independent_ newspaper reports.
''The discovery and the extraordinarily
early date overturn the accepted early
history of the Americas,'' the London
newspaper said last week.  The evidence
shows several large settlements on the
Amazon's banks.  Human skeletons at the
site are ''robust, tall, compared to
later Amerindian populations,''
one scientist said.

  -- 30 --
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (John Burke)
Subject: An Interesting Development ...
Date: 29 Dec 91 19:11:00 GMT


 * Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO"
 * Originally from John Burke
 * Originally dated 12-29-91 10:49

Don Allen writes:

 >                       *  *  *

 > . . .    I've seen a lot of "Meier is/has hoaxed the
 > film..the wires are holding up the beamships" type
 > discussions..but NO PROOF has ever surfaced to substantiate
 > those claims..no one has PROVED that Meier has hoaxed
 > anything...but conversly, no independent investigator
 > (other than Stevens/Elders and the Japanese) has
 > proved Meier's case ABSOLUTELY. It would be
 > nice if Asket or Semjase would be gracious enough to pose
 > for pictures :-)
 >                       *  *  *

As a matter of fact, Billy Meier came up with a photo of Semjase which was
later identified as a photo from the German edition of the Sears catalog.  The
model was tracked down and she didn't know a beamship from a steamship.

Then there was the story about how Billy was taken into the future to
photograph San Francisco after an earthquake.  The photo was later identified
as an artist's rendering on the subject which was published in _Geo_ magazine.
When Brit Elders was asked to comment on this she said:  "Just because one
photo was faked doesn't mean the entire case was faked."

As for Billy's films, there is a bit of irony involved here, especially with
the comparison to the Ed Walters case.  The film of the "UFO" flying around the
tree was analyzed by a fellow who successfully demonstrated that the "UFO" was
actually a pendulum on a string.  He also calculated the exact length of the
string and published his findings in the _IUR_ back in about '88 or '89 in an
article called "The Pendulum From The Pleaides". Curiously, the author of this
article was none other than Bruce Maccabee, proponent of the Walters case.  I
believe he also wrote another article around that time contrasting the two
cases (it may have been in the MUFON Journal) called something like: "Ed: Yes
-- Billy:No".

BTW, thanks for posting that cookie recipe that appeared on the Internet.  Now
if I can just find someone to do the "dirty work" and really MAKE those damn
things ... Happy New Year! --  John

--
John Burke - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: The Bennewitz Papers
Date: 29 Dec 91 22:35:00 GMT

From Christa Tilton:

"'THE BENNEWITZ PAPERS' are now available for $25.00 POSTPAID which updates,
examines new information about Dulce, NM and Christa Tilton's experiences
there with Officer Gabe Valdez, plus her correspondence with Rick Doty, former
AFOSI agent, plus Bill Moore's connection and plust two chapters from Paul
Bennewitz's own manuscript he was to have released and what caused the
government concern to keep him under wraps for so many years.  It is an
explosive manuscript."

Ordering information:  Make all payments payable to Linda Karr, P.O. Box
906237, Tulsa, OK  74112.  ($28 CANADA) ($35 OVERSEAS).

As an aside, I have read the publication and found it to be pretty
interesting.

This is not an endorsement by ParaNet Information Service, and is provided as
a public service announcement.

--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Calvin Knows Better
Date: 29 Dec 91 22:50:00 GMT


 * Forwarded from "Alt.Alien.Visitors"
 * Originally from Travis R. Stone
 * Originally dated 12-27-91 14:14

From: [e-mail] (Travis R. Stone)
Date: 27 Dec 91 15:44:00 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors



    If you think that the subject of UFOs and abductions hasn't
    penetrated fairly deeply into the public consciousness, think
    again: there was a Sunday "Calvin and Hobbes" strip that had
    Calvin reciting a poem...

    While lying on my back to make an angel in the snow,
    I saw a greenish craft appear--a giant UFO!

    A strange, unearthly hum it made!  It hovered overhead!
    And aliens were moving 'round in viewports glowing red!

    I tried to run for cover, but a hook that they had low'rd
    snagged me by my overcoat, and hoisted me aboard!

    Even then, I tried to fight, and though they numbered many,
    I poked them in their compound eyes, and pulled on their antennae!

    It was no use! they dragged me to a platform, tied me up,
    and wired to my cranium a fiendish suction cup!

    They turned it on, and a current coursed across my cerebellum
    Coaxing from my brain tissue the things I wouldn't tell 'em!

    All the math I ever learned, the numbers and equations
    Were mechanic'ly removed in this brain-draining operation!...

    ...My escape was an adventure (I won't tell you what I did);
    Suffice to say, I cannot add--so ask some other kid.

 Have a happy New Year, everyone.  And don't let the Greys get you.

 T.R. Stone
 University of Nebraska-Omaha
 Home of the Toughest Organic Chemistry Instructors on This or
 Any other Planet in the Known Universe

--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Noriega Trial
Date: 23 Dec 91 01:22:00 GMT

In a message to Jim Speiser <20 Dec 91 07:24> Jim Greenen wrote:

 JG> behalf of Noriega. It smells of the James "Bo" Grz trial where it
 JG> was completely black-out from the city limits of Las Vegas. Lars
 JG> Hannson has been covering the trial and has written some news
 JG> articules on it. Can't get a major newspaper or TV station to
 JG> touch it. It makes you wonder just whats going on. 73'S    ---JIM---

What's going on is that Noriega survived to name names.  This should be really
interesting -- bet you 16 to 5 that virtually nothing the defense tries to
present will be allowed into evidence...

Best,
  Clark


--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Suicides?
Date: 29 Dec 91 23:12:00 GMT

In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <23 Dec 91 08:57> Jim Greenen wrote:

 JG>   Well, lets see--- We got Dr. James McDonald, Morris K. Jessup
 JG> to name 2. Also according to Lars Hannson, there were 3 this year
 JG> that commited suicide. One was the person
 JG> that uncovered the Inslaw dealings.

Hello Jim.  Let us not overlook several recent murders, including Scott Rogo
in L.A. and Tracy ??? and her brother in Las Vegas.

The Inslaw writer would be Daniel Casolaro, though I personally doubt very much
that he died a suicide.  His notes and manuscript disappeared from his motel
room, and someone claiming to be a family member telephoned the local coroner
and authorized embalming his body, thus practically eliminating any chance for
detecting blood-borne toxins like Ricin or the CIA's infamous Shellfish toxin.
 The caller was not a family member.  Lastly, the method of suicide would have
been highly unusual for him -- plus bleeding to death in a hot bath is
something that can be done when a person is *unconscious*, or even dead.

It's interesting to compare Dan Casolaro's "suicide" to Karen Silkwood's "car
accident":

* Sensitive, hemo-phobic writer slashes wrists in bathtub/manuscript, tapes &
  notes disappear

* Ballsy, prize-winning gymkhana & time-trials race driver loses control of
  special race-stablilzed car on empty road, crosses 4 lanes & divider,
  hits abuttment/manuscript, photocopies & notes disappear.

You figure it out.

Dan Casolaro did not research UFO topics, however.  Neither did Karen Silkwood.

Best,
  Clark



--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Suicides?
Date: 29 Dec 91 23:35:00 GMT

In a message to Jim Greenen <24 Dec 91 22:20> Linda Bird wrote:

 LB> In a recent message, you said something to the effect that the 20 +
 LB> witnesses of the Kennedy assassination met with "unfortunate
 LB> accidents."  Could you elaborate a bit on this?  I'm dismayed to
 LB> learn this, but somehow am NOT surprised.

Hi L.B., and Merry Christmas!

The most interesting one was the guy who "committed suicide by hurling himself
through a reinforced display window in a Texas department store".

Check out Lifton's book Best Evidence for more info on the many deaths in the
wake of the JFK murder.  Lloyd's of London calculated, based on their actuarial
data, that the odds against the number of deaths in the people involved in the
2-1/2 years following the murder were in excess of 100 Billion to One.

Best,
  Clark


--
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From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Suicides?
Date: 30 Dec 91 00:29:00 GMT

Hi JIm,

Thanks for answering back on the Kennedy question.  It certainly is
strange how all those people died so mysteriously!

My Xmas was ruined when, a few days before Xmas day, both Hubby and I
came down with colds.  Really nasty for me; got behind in all my school
work, and the lesson I have learned is that I'm gonna have to slow
down.   Still not well yet, just crept outa bed to check mail. <cof>

Happy New Year,

Linda

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Rendelsham/Bentwaters
Date: 30 Dec 91 00:46:00 GMT

Hi Keith,

Thanks for the information on that book.  The address seemed familiar
and it is the smae as "Inner Light" Publications, which I think is run
by Tim Beckeley.

Did you read Jenny Randles' book (1988) called "Abductions"?  It was
republished in paperback, and retitled "Alien Abductions:  They Mystery
Solved."  I haven't read it; wonder what she says.  Do you know?

Thanks,

Linda

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
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From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Visitors
Date: 29 Dec 91 17:44:23 GMT

In a message to All <23 Dec 91 21:14> Keith Basterfield wrote:

 KB> I think I must have been reading far too much material on
 KB> abductions recently. I woke up in the middle of last night to
 KB> distinctly hear a woman's voice softly calling my first name. I
 KB> came to consciousness, and opened my eyes to look around the
 KB> darkened room. The first thought which popped into my mind was,
 KB> "Oh no! Don't let there be anything there." There wasn't, and I
 KB> fell back to sleep, mightly relieved that there really aren't any
 KB> aliens out there in the middle of the night implanting us. But,
 KB> for just a few seconds...

I've had that experience numerous times, always just upon waking (or perhaps I
am startled awake by the voice). I think its related to hypnopompic
hallucinating.

Jim

--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Nephilim
Date: 31 Dec 91 00:26:00 GMT


1  : >Peggy, I do not remember if it was you who had asked the
2  : >question a few weeks ago about the "nephilim". Anyway, I found
3  : >out in a round about way that the word "nephilim" should
4  : >actualy be "nefilim" which is a hebrew word translated in the
5  : >King James version of the Bible in the 6th chapter of Genisis (
6  : >I think ) as "giants upon the earth".
7  : >In this instance the author of this statement seems to think it
8  : >could also be translated as " those who came down from the
9  : >heavens to the earth". I hope I got the right person. Rocky
10 : >---
11 : > * Origin: ParaNet - Leading UFO Research - 303-933-7184
12 : >(1:104/605.0)
13 : Hi Rocky,
14 : Yes, you did get the right person and I thank you very much for the
15 : information.  BTW, I'll pass this along to Linda Bird, too, as she's
16 : a great student of the Nephilim and will find this useful too.
17 : Thanks for thinking of me and for remembering who, too (how'd you
18 : manage that?  with all the numbers of messages? !)  ;-)
19 :                                         ==Peggy==

--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: CIS message
Date: 31 Dec 91 00:34:00 GMT

Hi Pete,
        Just a note to let you know that I left an EMail message for
you on CIS since I hadn't heard from you after attempting a reply
here.
                        ==Peggy==
PS--why mention it? you'd said you didn't call CI$ too often and
thought you might miss it otherwise.  Thanks = p
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
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From: [e-mail] (John Powell)
Subject: AVRO Car
Date: 24 Dec 91 22:33:52 GMT

In a message to John Powell <15 Dec 91 16:59> Travis Hall wrote:

 TH> In a post concerning the AVRO Car at the Smithsonian Museum...
 > JP> I've been there and haven't seen it.  If someone knows where it is I'd
 > JP> really like to see it...  (I'll send free photos to the 1st correct
 > JP> respondee...)
 TH> John, Suggest you check the Garber Facility at Silver Hill MD. The Air
 TH> and Space Museum has an extension facility there. Not only do they store
 TH> exhibits there for periodic use in the Museum on the Mall, but that is
 TH> the location where they restore the aircraft, etc. They have an
 TH> extensive exhibit area there and citizens are welcome (you may need an
 TH> appointment).  Docents run the tours and are very knowledgable.
 TH> ---Update-- Just checked with docent (volunteer guide) friend...The AVRO
 TH> hovercar is indeed at this facility.

I talked with them today.  They are open everyday of the year except Xmas day,
Mon-Fri 10am - 5pm, Sat/Sun 10am-1pm.  Reservation/appointment _is_ necessary.
 I was told it was a technical type of tour, about 3 hours, quite unsuitable
for children or the elderly or those who are only casually interested.  Also,
no heat, no security, no facilities.

Thanks, (their number is 202-357-1400), take care.
John.

--
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********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to********
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******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************

                Info-ParaNet Newsletters   Volume I  Number 520

                           Monday, January 13th 1992

Today's Topics:

                                 Re: JFK MYSTERY
                                  Re: Suicides?
                                  Ufo Magazine
                                  Ufo Magazine
                              Re: *** TV ALERT ***
                         An Interesting Development ...
                                  Ray Stanford
                         An Interesting Development ...
                         An Interesting Development ...
                                       IUR
                               Momentous Occasion
                                  Re: Nephilim
                              Roswell Investigation
                                 Amazon Question
                                  Re: SUICIDES?
                                 Re: CIS MESSAGE
                                 Re: JFK MYSTERY
                                  Noriega Trial
                                    Suicides?
                                  Re: Suicides?
                                       Iur
                                      Price
                                  Re: Nephilim
                                 Amazon Question
                                 Re: Cis Message

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: JFK MYSTERY
Date: 31 Dec 91 04:43:00 GMT

Hi Pete,

Thanks for info on Kennedy and all those mysterious deaths.  Looks like
the only one who didn't get killed was  Garrison!!  Makes ya wonder why
not.  Lot of hysterical folks, to be killing themselves......hmmmm.

Thanks again, and Happy New Year!  Have a drink for me; I've  got
bronchitis...

Linda

--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Suicides?
Date: 31 Dec 91 04:46:00 GMT

Hello Clark,

Thanks for more info on Kennedy.  I'm sure by now you saw Pete Porro's
post and run-down on the deaths.

Amazing story....

Thanks and Be Good!

Linda


--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Don Ecker)
Subject: Ufo Magazine
Date: 30 Dec 91 01:20:00 GMT

Ian Harper asked:

 > Hi can you please tell me where i can get a copy of this mag, as it
 > sounds very interesting. i live in a town in the UK called Basildon
 > and we find it hard to get hold of this kind of info (that was before we
 > got paranet)
 > I hope you dont mind me asking? bye for now.......IAN HARPER

Ian, I am always happy to be of help if possible.

UFO Magazine is a bi-monthly publication that takes a sober, skeptical look at
one of the most fascinating subjects around, UFOs. The best way to receive the
magazine in the U.K. is via subscription. In the U.S. the cost is $21.00 per
year, and outside the U.S. it is $28.00 per year. If you live outside the U.S.
and wish it to get to you 1st Class ( much faster ) the cost is $36.00, and
you will recieve it much quicker.

The address to send a subscription fee is;

UFO Magazine
P.O. Box 1053
Sunland, Ca. 91041
U.S.A.

Hope that is of assistance.

Best Regards;

Don Ecker
Director of Research
UFO Magazine

--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Don Ecker)
Subject: Ufo Magazine
Date: 30 Dec 91 01:37:00 GMT

Keith Basterfield stated;

 > There was some talk six months ago about trying to get the mag
 > distributed down under. Did anything come of this? If not could you
 > please supply me with the mailing address and current US$ price for a
 > year's subs and I'll sub direct. The tantalising items I see here, need
 > to be explored in full with a personal copy. Thanks.

Keith, as of yet no, nothing happening. However you may certainly
subscribe-direct...

The cost outside the U.S. is $28.00 U.S. currency, and if you would wish it
sent air-mail 1st Class, the cost is $36.00 U.S. Inside the U.S. it is still
$21.00. Write to;

UFO Magazine
P.O. Box 1053
Sunland, Ca. 91041
U.S.A.

Will look forward to hearing from you.

Best Regards;

Don

--
Don Ecker - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Graham)
Subject: Re: *** TV ALERT ***
Date: 31 Dec 91 21:57:49 GMT


In a message sent 22:03: 25 Dec 91, John Hrusovszky wrote to Jim Speiser:
 JH> Nope.  Just finished watching it.  And right
 JH> afterwards, a Special
 JH> Speech by President Bush -- about the breakup of
True, but it did get the heart muscle to flutter when the network announcer
said, "Stay tuned for a special report from the President of the United
States...". :-)

On a serious note, I wonder if this announcement rumor actually came from
within the show itself.  Several minutes into the show, Robert Stack said
something like, "...and when we come back, we'll hear testimony from actual
government officials...".



Jim Graham
Sysop: The Portal Dolmen BBS and ParaNet(sm) ALPHA-GAMMA
       (812)-334-0418, 24 hours
       Lots of wierd-science goodies.

)
--
Jim Graham - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: An Interesting Development ...
Date: 31 Dec 91 14:49:21 GMT

In a message to Don Allen <29 Dec 91 12:11> John Burke wrote:



 JB> BTW, thanks for posting that cookie recipe that appeared on the
 JB> Internet.  Now if I can just find someone to do the "dirty work"
 JB> and really MAKE those damn things ... Happy New Year! --  John

Speaking of which, I dutifully posted the recipe to the local net here, and I
was informed that it is one of those "online urban legends," as I kinda
suspected it was.

The wife is going to attempt the recipe anyway.

Jim

--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Bill Chalker UFORA Associate NSW)
Subject: Ray Stanford
Date: 29 Dec 91 05:24:00 GMT


 >  > Yes is was Project Starlight International.  See for example Curran's
 > > book "In Advance of the Landing" and Ray's own book "Socorro Saucer in a
 > > Pentagon Pantry" for more info.  The site development re UFO monitoring
 > > I believe is now defunct.

 > How can I get a copy of this publication?
 > Mike
 >
Mike, Seasons greetings.
Curran's excellent book on Folk Concepts of Outer Space was
published in 1985 by Abbeville Press, Inc. 505 Park Avenue,
New York, 10022.  It is difficult to get  but a wonderful
book on the human response to the ETH pulse.
Ray Stanford's own book was published as "Socorro Saucer in
a Pentagon Pantry" by Blue Apple Books, P.O. Box 5694,
Austin, Texas, 78763 run by a friend of Ray's, John Lucas.
He also did the excellent drawings.  I'm not sure whether
Blue Apple is still going.  Fontana published a paperback
version as "Socorro Saucer" in 1978 (William Collins, UK)
with an extra chapter referring to supportive info on the
possiblity of a landing at Holloman in 1964 in which contact
or retrieval was made.  APRO was writing about this in 1964!
This claim was resurrected by Doty with Howe in the early
80s, and Emenegger had a similar story thrust on him in the
70s, but his contacts were stating that the Holloman landing
took place in 1971 - a B___ S____ date according to Doty
(via Linda Howe).  I don't know if a US paperback edition
was published.
I would be interested in hearing anything re the
Howe/Emenegger/Holloman connection.
Regards, Bill

--
Bill Chalker UFORA Associate NSW - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: An Interesting Development ...
Date: 28 Dec 91 18:44:00 GMT


 >   As a Ham operator, I have talked to many in your country and
 > get this feeling of still wanting to go over there when I talk
 > to them. Maybe when I hit the lotto I can make my dream come
 > true.

Come to Cairns, Tropical Far North Queensland (where I live now)
if you like warm weather - no winters here!    A real paradise.

 >    Maybe someday these records will be opened and the truth will
 > come out. Be careful when dealing with this subject and others
 > during your investigations. A lot of joint adventures going on
 > between our 2 countries and this country playes hard ball
 > sometimes when you get too close to the facts.

Thanks for the advice Jim.  I've been very active in UFOlogy for the
past 30 years. So far I haven't had any unpleasnt experiences with the
MIBs (Men in Black). However, if I happen to see a real UFO, I won't
tell anybody.

All the best,
Vlad

--
Vladimir Godic - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: An Interesting Development ...
Date: 28 Dec 91 18:49:00 GMT


 > I "believe" that both cases are real..however, I cannot prove
 > them
 > satisfactorily to skeptics, but that's just my opinion. Every
 > person
 > has their own index for what kinds of "proof" they will accept
 > as being
 > real/acceptable to them. To me, both GB and the Meier case are
 > labeled
 > "religious".

That's fine by me. In that case there is nothing more I'd like to say.

Vlad

--
Vladimir Godic - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: IUR
Date: 27 Dec 91 05:00:00 GMT

Hi Peggy, The address for the IUR is International UFO Reporter, 2457
West Peterson Avenue, Chicago, Illinois, 60659. Price is quoted in a
recent issue as $25.00 per annum, six issues. Articles I write, are
sent to a variety of Journals e.g. IUR, Magonia, MUFON Journal,
Fortean Times (all gratis). I like the IUR for its academic leanings
to the subject. Re reproduction of the articles elsewhere, I have
always found the editor Jerry Clark more than willing to grant
permission to reprint. For example, my last IUR article on an
Australian abduction case was reproduced, with Jerry's and my
permission in the UK Fortean Times. So no, I'm not contracted to
anyone, just the most appropriate mag for the article.

--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Momentous Occasion
Date: 1 Jan 92 19:31:56 GMT

In addition to wishing you all a Happy New Year, it is also my distinct
pleasure to wish you all a

HAPPY 6TH ANNIVERSARY OF PARANET!


Here's to another memorable year of the world's most intelligent online
conversations on the paranormal!


Jim Speiser


--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Nephilim
Date: 2 Jan 92 00:20:00 GMT

Hi Peggy,

  Thanks for the message from Rocky.  It would be fun to talk to him
about these Nephilim folks.  Glad to see there are others who ponder
such unponderables.  A question for you and Rocky: who is Yahwah, the
(oops, that's Yahweh) the spiritual leader/god for the Isralies?  Was
]he one of the Nephilim?  IF so, which one?  Enki?  Anu?  Enlil?

Thanks for the Christmas Card!

Hope you have a great New Year!

Good wishes,

Linda

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Roswell Investigation
Date: 2 Jan 92 02:05:01 GMT


 I recently received from Dr. Bruce Maccabee a summary of grant
 proposals for the continuing Roswell case investigation. This
 summary is reproduced below for those of you who did not receive
 this inquiry. The names in parentheses are the proposers, dollar
 amounts are estimated Project costs.

 He would like us all to rank order of the following proposals by
 placing a "1" beside the project you think is the most important;
 a "2" next to the second most important, etc.

 The form should then be mailed to:

 Fund for UFO Research
 P.O. Box 277
 Mt. Rainier, MD 20712
 U.S.A.
 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 ___ Project A -- To conduct further research into UFO
 crash/retrieval cases (Leonard Stringfield): $1,200

 ___ Project B -- To interview six additional witnesses
 (Don Schmitt): $1,700

 ___ Project C -- To conduct hypnosis sessions with known and
 potential witnesses (Stanton Friedman): $15,860

 ___ Project D -- To conduct further research at the Truman and
 Eisenhower Libraries, the Sandia and Los Alamos Laboratories, and
 at the Library of Congress (Stanton Friedman): $6,545

 ___ Project E -- To produce a follow-up videotaped summary of
 witness testimony (Fred Whiting): $500

 ___ Project F -- To bring significant witnesses to Washington, DC,
 for a de-briefing by congressional staff and interviews with media
 representatives (Fred Whiting) $5,700

 Any further suggestions:..............

 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


 My personal order of importance would be F (absolutely!),D,A,C,E,B

 Sheldon
--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Hicks)
Subject: Amazon Question
Date: 1 Jan 92 07:04:00 GMT


 > Amazon's banks.  Human skeletons at the
 > site are ''robust, tall, compared to
 > later Amerindian populations,''
 > one scientist said.

  Could indicate a migration from a different area than the later Amerindians.
Maybe?

                                           jbh

--
John Hicks - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Pete Porro)
Subject: Re: SUICIDES?
Date: 1 Jan 92 10:09:44 GMT

Hope the file with the stats got through to all of you. I didn't write it, I
don't know the source, but since it was up I served it.

PS Disclaimer for the year of 1992, I may not spell well, but my typing is
even worse. Please excuse me for the next 365 days. Details are fine, but as
usual the most simple common things in life seem to escape me. I'll probably
get hit by a 747 because I didn't notice it!
--
Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Pete Porro)
Subject: Re: CIS MESSAGE
Date: 1 Jan 92 10:19:35 GMT

We have to stop meeting like this, I think your husband is getting
suspicious? I just called CIS for the playoff games (since I'm a football nut
among other obsessions) <help my brain died!> and now I writing comments upon
the comments. Didn't see anything, but I'll try tomorrow.

Besides that I closed out all the accounts for the year at work which is
hours of watching the printer in compressed print, telling me  what I was
wishing I didn't have to see.

Tomorrow I hope to start my life again. I'm done living as the sound of one
hand clapping. Significant blabber trust me.
--
Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Pete Porro)
Subject: Re: JFK MYSTERY
Date: 1 Jan 92 10:20:12 GMT

And Garrison is a judge now.
--
Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Greenen)
Subject: Noriega Trial
Date: 1 Jan 92 15:49:01 GMT


 CM> In a message to Jim Speiser <20 Dec 91 07:24> Jim Greenen
 CM> wrote:
 CM>
 CM>  JG> behalf of Noriega. It smells of the James "Bo" Grz trial where it
 CM>  JG> was completely black-out from the city limits of Las Vegas. Lars
 CM>  JG> Hannson has been covering the trial and has written some news
 CM>  JG> articules on it. Can't get a major newspaper or TV station to
 CM>  JG> touch it. It makes you wonder just whats going on. 73'S    ---JIM---
 CM>
 CM> What's going on is that Noriega survived to name names.
 CM> This should be really interesting -- bet you 16 to 5 that
 CM> virtually nothing the defense tries to present will be
 CM> allowed into evidence...
 CM>
 CM> Best,
 CM>   Clark

   Sorry Clark, the odds are not high enough. How about 50 to 1, the
I might bet you a quarter. ---Grin---
   --Jim--
--
Jim Greenen - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Greenen)
Subject: Suicides?
Date: 1 Jan 92 15:53:02 GMT

You forgot James V. Forreststall (spelling not correct) and probably
thousands more that we are not aware of.    ---Jim---
--
Jim Greenen - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Greenen)
Subject: Re: Suicides?
Date: 1 Jan 92 16:05:03 GMT


 LB> Hi JIm,
 LB>
 LB> Thanks for answering back on the Kennedy question.  It
 LB> certainly is strange how all those people died so
 LB> mysteriously!
 LB>
 LB> My Xmas was ruined when, a few days before Xmas day, both
 LB> Hubby and I came down with colds.  Really nasty for me; got
 LB> behind in all my school work, and the lesson I have learned
 LB> is that I'm gonna have to slow down.   Still not well yet,
 LB> just crept outa bed to check mail. <cof>
 LB>
 LB> Happy New Year,
 LB>
 LB> Linda
 LB>

   Sorry I couldn't give you more details but I have a problem
remembering names and details. I do remember reading or seeing a
articule or watching something but can't remember which book or
program that it happened. This happens when you get over 50.
---Grin---
  Sorry about the cold but I have the same problem when the wife
catches a cold. She is so cute, I have a hard time staying away from
her. You would think after 24 years that I could have better self
control. Sometimes I wish God didn't make you women so huggable.
73'S    ---JIM---
--
Jim Greenen - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Iur
Date: 3 Jan 92 12:12:00 GMT

Keith,
        Thank you for sending the address and other information.
Sounds worth checking further.  I appreciate the info!
                                ==peggy==
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Price
Date: 3 Jan 92 12:13:00 GMT

>Hi, yes, I'll write to Richard price re his video.

Okay, I hope it proves worthwhile!
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Re: Nephilim
Date: 3 Jan 92 12:16:00 GMT

>Hi Peggy,
>
>  Thanks for the message from Rocky.  It would be fun to talk
>to him about these Nephilim folks.  Glad to see there are
>others who ponder
>such unponderables.  A question for you and Rocky: who is
>(oops, that's Yahweh) the spiritual leader/god for the
>Isralies?  Was
>]he one of the Nephilim?  IF so, which one?  Enki?  Anu?
>Enlil?

Hi Linda,
        Good questions!  I'll relay your message to Rocky.  (I think
this should pique his interest!)
        Thanks for the Christmas card yourself ;-) !
                                                ==Peggy==
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Amazon Question
Date: 3 Jan 92 12:19:00 GMT

> > Amazon's banks.  Human skeletons at the
> > site are ''robust, tall, compared to
> > later Amerindian populations,''
> > one scientist said.

>  Could indicate a migration from a different area than the
>later Amerindians. Maybe?


Hmmmmmm....good thought.
Maybe something like Tristan Jones' tall, fair-skinned, red-haired
group of people in South America.  (It's been a while since I read
that one of his books and I don't remember now which country it was
in...could be same one.)  I'll have to see if there's some way I can
get a copy of the original story from the Independent.
Maybe "one scientist" had more to say on the topic than that little
item had space to tell.
                                                ==Peggy==
--
Peggy Noonan - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Re: Cis Message
Date: 3 Jan 92 12:28:00 GMT

>getting suspicious? I just called CIS for the playoff games
>(since I'm a football nut among other obsessions) <help my
>brain died!> and now I writing comments upon the comments.
>Didn't see anything, but I'll try tomorrow.

Hi Pete,
        Could it be I used the wrong number?  I posted it either on
12/29 or 12/22 (last two call dates -- not sure now which was *the*
one).  I have in my notes this #:75046,762.  If that's not you, then
somebody out there is wondering what in the world is going on and
who is this nut who keeps sending him imponderable stuff <g>!
It should've reached you via EMail--should get the mail announcement
when you first logon, so if you didn't find it [oops -- sorry, my
automatic backup program just interrupted here and I had to tell it
to shut up and go away for the moment] when you called for football
info, something must be amiss.
        I, too, am a fan after years of hating the game. Finally
learned what it was all about.  Does it seem to you that this year
just isn't as good overall -- there've been a few really good games
but a whole ton of snorers too -- or is that just the perspective of
a less avid fan?
>
>Tomorrow I hope to start my life again. I'm done living as the
>sound of one hand clapping. Significant blabber trust me.

        Hmmm...sounds intriguing!
        If you haven't found the message next time you call CIS, let
me know and I'll try something else.
                                        ==Peggy==
--
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********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to********
                      'infopara' at the following address:

UUCP  {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom!infopara
DOMAIN  [e-mail]

 For administrative requests (subscriptions, back issues) send to:

UUCP            {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom!infopara-request
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 To obtain back issues by anonymous ftp, connect to:

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UUCP  scicom!paranet.org!firstname.lastname

******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************

                Info-ParaNet Newsletters   Volume I  Number 521

                          Wednesday, January 15th 1992

Today's Topics:

                              Roswell Investigation
                              MJ-12 and Bill Moore
                                   Omni Online
                       Bruce Cathie & Stan Deyo Conference
                                Re: Verbal Abuse
                                    Nephilim
                         An Interesting Development ...
                              Circles down under 1
                              Circles down under 2
                              Circles down under 3
                              Circles down under 4
                                  Re: AVRO Car
                                   Texas Camps
                                  Re: Nephilim
                              Roswell Investigation
                              Roswell Investigation
                                    Suicides?
                                  Noriega Trial
                                    Suicides?
                                  Ufo Magazine
                                     Mistake
                          Radio Isotopes found in Corn
                          Doug and Dave in Australia???

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Roswell Investigation
Date: 3 Jan 92 06:18:42 GMT

In a message to All <01 Jan 92 19:05> Sheldon Wernikoff wrote:

 SW> ------------------------------------------------------------------

 SW> ___ Project A -- To conduct further research into UFO
 SW> crash/retrieval cases (Leonard Stringfield): $1,200

 SW> ___ Project B -- To interview six additional witnesses
 SW> (Don Schmitt): $1,700

 SW> ___ Project C -- To conduct hypnosis sessions with known and
 SW> potential witnesses (Stanton Friedman): $15,860

 SW> ___ Project D -- To conduct further research at the Truman and
 SW> Eisenhower Libraries, the Sandia and Los Alamos Laboratories, and
 SW> at the Library of Congress (Stanton Friedman): $6,545

 SW> ___ Project E -- To produce a follow-up videotaped summary of
 SW> witness testimony (Fred Whiting): $500

 SW> ___ Project F -- To bring significant witnesses to Washington, DC,
 SW> for a de-briefing by congressional staff and interviews with media
 SW> representatives (Fred Whiting) $5,700

 SW> Any further suggestions:..............

 SW> ------------------------------------------------------------------

 SW> My personal order of importance would be F (absolutely!),D,A,C,E,B

 SW> Sheldon

Mine would be F E D B A C (with almost no emphasis whatsoever on the last two.

I am also going to propose a Project G, which would be a comprehensive PLAN OF
ACTION, combining elements from several of these projects into a cohesive
whole, with the ultimate goal being Congressional hearings. It would involve
preliminary interviews with Congressional staffers to ascertain just exactly
what would attract the attention of Congresscritters, assembling the needed
evidence, gathering the witnesses together for a first round of talks with the
staffers, getting the staffers to lobby their bosses to RESCIND ALL OATHS OF
SECRECY REGARDING ROSWELL, using this declaration to gather more witnesses,
then bringing it all together for public hearings. Doing it piecemeal is not
going to cut it with Congress, there MUST be a plan.

Jim

--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: col.hp.com!THURMAN_JIM/HPATC_01%hpcsee.col.hp.com
Subject: MJ-12 and Bill Moore
Date: 3 Jan 92 22:44:51 GMT

From: THURMAN_JIM/[e-mail]

To All:

I have been trying to find out the latest on the MJ-12 documents
and what has happened to Bill Moore.

My understanding from reading the literature is that the MJ-12
papers were considered, by most researchers, to be faked...
possibly by Moore himself. If anyone has up-to-date information
on this I would greatly appreciate it. Also any new info on the
Groome Lake (Area 51) happenings would be of great interest. Thanks
in advance for any help!

Jim Thurman
INTERNET: [e-mail]




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Omni Online
Date: 3 Jan 92 22:26:02 GMT


>I've noticed that in the last 2 issues of _Omni_ there has been
>no "Antimatter" section and hence, no "UFO Update".  Did they
>drop it or what?

I'm going to have to call and find out what's going on. Last they
told me was it and Continuum were their two most popular features
but the January issue just came and there's no Antimatter in it
either.  Worrisome!
Will let you (all) know when/what I find out.
                                ==Peggy==
--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Duncan Roads)
Subject: Bruce Cathie & Stan Deyo Conference
Date: 3 Jan 92 13:26:00 GMT

Hello all from down under.  Can't keep us Aussies down heh?
Just leaving a note to let anyone interested in the following event:
Stan Deyo and Bruce Cathie are guest lecturers at a two day event to be
held in Sydney, Australia on the 9th & 10th May, 1992.  The event will
repeated the following weekend in Brisbane, Qld (Still in Australia).
Those interested can book for the event, by contacting me below:
Duncan Roads
Nexus Magazine
c/- Post Office, Mapleton.  Qld. 4560  Australia
Ph: Australia 074 760 122
Fx: Australia 074 760 495
Cost: $45.00 per person per day (Aussie dollars only) if booked and
paid prior to Feb 29th 1992 (Add $10.00 per person per day if you want
lunch laid on).
Otherwise the cost will be $55.00 per person per day, if booked and
paid afterY3{{Feb29th 1992.
Hope to see some of you people down here.
Tally hooooo......
regards
Duncan Roads
--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Doug Rogers)
Subject: Re: Verbal Abuse
Date: 31 Dec 91 08:15:43 GMT

I believe we can loose the "Addams Family thread" right here.  OK?

--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Carl Aztec)
Subject: Nephilim
Date: 3 Jan 92 17:47:00 GMT


 >  A question for you and Rocky: who is Yahwah, the
 > (oops, that's Yahweh) the spiritual leader/god for the
 > Isralies?


It's the personal name of God in the Old Testament. Called the
Tetragrammaton (name of 4 letters), it means Yod-Heh-Vau-Heh (YHVH).

This is the name that appears as Jehovah in many versions of
the bible. It's a form of the verb 'to be' and means 'he
is".  The name YHVH was considered such a powerful word,
(after all, it's God's 'personal' name), it was seldom used
by the Jews of the time out of respect or out of fear of some evil
magic happening to them.

Rumor has it that the exact pronunciation of YHVH is only
known by the most elite of elite since it is a "secret of
secrets" but modern scholars choose Yahweh pronounced
yeh'we (better check your dictionary on that).

The search for God's real name ( a secret name of infinite
power) has preoccupied man for a long time.

--
Carl Aztec - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Don Allen)
Subject: An Interesting Development ...
Date: 3 Jan 92 15:41:00 GMT


 * Replying to a message originally to John Burke

 JS> In a message to Don Allen <29 Dec 91 12:11> John Burke
 JS> wrote:
 JS>  JB> Internet.  Now if I can just find someone to do the "dirty work"
 JS>  JB> and really MAKE those damn things ... Happy New Year! --  John
 JS>
 JS> Speaking of which, I dutifully posted the recipe to the
 JS> local net here, and I was informed that it is one of those
 JS> "online urban legends," as I kinda suspected it was.
 JS>

Afraid you're right...went back and looked through that newsgroup
and waded through the thread a bit deeper...it appears that I was
snookered. Oh well..

Haven't had a chance to make them up yet..the wife said this weekend :-)

Don

--
Don Allen - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Circles down under 1
Date: 31 Dec 91 20:33:00 GMT

Regular users of Paranet will recall that there has been some
suggestion that quite a few crop circles have been found in Australia
recently. Living here, I naturally pricked up my ears when this was
floated. So, I thought I'd take a look into it and post the following
messages on the subject for you all.

I've delved into the files of UFORA; material published by Bill
Chalker in the mid to late 70's; read all the crop circle books
around, and tested out my own 20 odd years of field work.

From all sources I was able to come up with a list of some 31 cases
which at first glance sounded like English crop circles. I was trying
to match reports of roughly circular, flattened, swirled
crop/vegetation. A review of each of these 31 cases quickly reduced
the number to 13. This and the following messages will detail what I
found.

1. Tully, Queensland. 19 Jan 1966. In what is regarded as a classic
UFO sighting, George Pedley was driving a tractor on a cane farm at
about 9 a.m. Suddenly a saucer shaped object rose out of a swamp, and
departed from the area. Pedley then found a perfectly circular, 9.1m
diameter, flattened, swirled area of reeds floating on top of 1.3m of
water. The reeds were swirled clockwise. (Source: UFO Research
Queensland file).

2. Bankstown, New South Wales. 14 Feb 1966. Two school boys
discovered, in a swamp, a 5.9m diameter circle. It consisted of
flattened reeds swirled clockwise. The reeds were bent at the base
and not broken. (UFO Investigation Centre).

3. Brisbane, Queensland. Nov 1966. After hearing an unusual noise
during the night a couple found a trace in an adjacent block of land.
The previously 1m high grass over the whole centre of the block had
been flattened and splayed out in a circle like a pack of cards.
Direction of swirl unknown. (UFORA files).

4. Hill River, South Australia. 18 Nov 1966. Two children watched a
60cm long by 25cm thick football shaped light, golden in colour, pass
within 50m of them and land in a paddock. The weeds in that spot were
later found flattened, corckscrew wise, in a circular patch some 1.5m
in diameter. (Personal investigation).

--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Circles down under 2
Date: 31 Dec 91 20:58:00 GMT

5. Lynchford, Tasmania. 25 May 1971. A Mr Archer was woken at 2 a.m.
to hear his dogs barking and a strange humming noise. The next day he
found a flattened area of grass and blackberries some 150m from his
house. The trace was 4.5 by 9.1m, with a spiral pattern in the
centre. (Tasmanian Investigation Centre).

6. Tooligie Hill, South Australia. Christmas 1971. Farmer Rob Habner
was reaping a wheat field when he saw a mark in his paddock. The
trace is best described as a doughnut shaped, bare depression in the
soil, with crop flattened but still present in the middle, and crop
flattened and swirled outside the bare area. Outside of this the crop
was still waist high. The centre hole area was 1.1m in diameter, the
doughnut bare soil depression was 0.45m across, and the outside
flattened area was 0.6m wide and swirled anti- clockwise. The trace
may have been made as early as Dec 8 because the grain from part of
the crop which had been flattened had dropped out and reseeded. (UFOR
SA).

7. Bordertown, South Australia. Dec 1973. Seven sections of the oat
crop of farmer Kevin O'Connell were found to have been disturbed.
Seven nearly circular spots were found spread out several hundred
metres across the paddock. The crop had been bent over, not snapped,
in a distinct anti-clockwise motion. Stalks were lying over each
other, some traces giving the appearance of a woven mat. Their ages
were estimated as between 2-4 weeks and they ranged in diameter from
2.1 to 4.6m. (Keith Basterfield and Garry Little).

8. Wokurna, South Australia. Dec 1973. A bare centred circle was
surounded by flattened, swirled wheat crop, making a total diameter
of some 2.4m. The direction of swirling was anti-clockwise. (Peter
Horne and Steven Bolton).

9. Pullabooka, New South Wales. Dec 1974. Farmer V Huckle was
ploughing a paddock of saffron thistles when he came across a 5.8m
diameter area where the waist high thistles had been flattened. In
the centre of the ring the earth was completely bare. As one moved
towards the perimete, damaged thistles had been pulped or shredded,
whilst others had been broken along the stem but were still intact.
The perimeter line was very sharply defined. Near the outside edge
the thistles had been swirled anti-clockwise. (UFO Investigation
Centre).

--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Circles down under 3
Date: 31 Dec 91 21:07:00 GMT

10. Tranmere, South Australia. 8 Dec 1975. After waking to hear an
unusual noise a woman found 2, 0.9m diameter areas of strawberry
plants flattened in an anti-clockwise direction. (Ray Brooke).

11. Torrita, Victoria. Oct 1976. A farmer reported finding 2 circles
some 7m apart, each 5.5m in diameter. Grass had been swirled, and
appeared to be burned. (Circular Evidence page 82).

12. Tully, Queensland. 20 Feb 1987. 5 circular areas appeared on the
same property as the 1966 event! Again they were in a lagoon area
where the vegetation was a fast growing grass. The vegetation within
the traces was flattened, matted and swirled clockwise. Sizes of the
marks, arranged in an arc, ranged from 3-4.9m. (UFO Research Far
North Queensland).

13. Speed, Victoria. Dec 1989. The farm of Max and Nancee Jolly was
the location for the discovery of 5 swirled, flattened, wheat
circles. 2 circles were 3m across whilst the other 3 were 1m in
diameter. The wheat had been flattened and swirled anti-clockwise in
each circle. Stalks were undamaged with grain matured on the heads.
(Victorian UFO Research Society).

In summary, apart from the event at Lynchford, all other traces were
almost circular in shape. There were no complex geometric patterns in
the distribution of circles in multi-ring events. There were, for
example, no pictograms. Most (10) were simple, single rings.

Interestingly, if you look at the direction of swirl, where known, 6
are anti- clockwise and 3 clockwise. However, all 3 clockwise marks
occurred in a swamp! Why this should be remains unclear.

--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Circles down under 4
Date: 31 Dec 91 21:11:00 GMT

Just in case we were not hearing of some crop circles, Vladimir Godic
and I went out looking for crop circles in 1990. Early in the year we
circulated a media release to capital city newspapers seeking
Australian examples of swirled crop circles. None were reported to
us. The exercise was repeated in November 1990 towards the end of the
harvesting season. A media release was sent to 18 South Australian
country newspapers, several national farming papers and 18 light
aircraft clubs. Despite this widespread publicity, the resulting find
was exactly nil!

We are now in the 1991/92 harvesting season and there have been no
reports of crop circles to date.

So, yes, Australia has experienced a few flattened, swirled crop
circles of unknown origin. However, the 13 known examples have been
spread over the years since 1966, very few when compared to the UK.
True reproductions of the UK crop circles might really be restricted
to only Bordertown and Speed.

--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Kay Mclaughlin)
Subject: Re: AVRO Car
Date: 29 Dec 91 01:18:00 GMT


 JP> In a message to John Powell <15 Dec 91 16:59> Travis Hall wrote:

 TH> In a post concerning the AVRO Car at the Smithsonian Museum...
 > JP> I've been there and haven't seen it.  If someone knows where it is I'd
 > JP> really like to see it...  (I'll send free photos to the 1st correct
 > JP> respondee...)
 TH> John, Suggest you check the Garber Facility at Silver Hill MD. The Air
 JP> I talked with them today.  They are open everyday of the year except
 JP> Xmas day, Mon-Fri 10am - 5pm, Sat/Sun 10am-1pm.
 JP> Reservation/appointment _is_ necessary.  I was told it was a technical
 JP> type of tour, about 3 hours, quite unsuitable for children or the
 JP> elderly or those who are only casually interested.  Also, no heat, no
 JP> security, no facilities.
 JP> Thanks, (their number is 202-357-1400), take care.
 JP> John.

John,
I left you a message awhile back regarding the AVRO, did you get it? It
is at in the transportation museum at Ft. Eustis, near Newport News, VA.
Regards,
Kay


--
Kay Mclaughlin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Kay Mclaughlin)
Subject: Texas Camps
Date: 3 Jan 92 06:18:00 GMT

Don,

On the Chuck Harder Show the other night, I heard a snippet about how
various private pilots(?) have been seeing "concentration type camps"(!)
springing up in the wilds of Texas. I didn't catch the whole thing, but
it sounded weird, he said he was looking into it.

Heard anything?

Regards,
Kay

--
Kay Mclaughlin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]


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From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Nephilim
Date: 4 Jan 92 23:13:00 GMT

Hello Carl,

Thanks for that information on Yahweh.  Have you read any of Zecharia
Sitchin's books?  I was wondering if one of the Sumerian gods could
have been adopted by the Hebrews, and, if so, which one?

The origin of religion fascinates me; what a mystery it is!

Regards,

Linda

--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Winn Schwartau)
Subject: Roswell Investigation
Date: 5 Jan 92 07:33:00 GMT

The biggest trouble will be getting sympathetic ears.  Staffers do not
particularly like to make their bosses look bad - not good for putting
groceries on the table.

When trying to force hearings, you have a lot of other political forces
working against you; for eery ear in Congress, there are a dozen others
listening in - and that won't help.

First, you need to pick an appropriate committee whose function might in
some way be related to the subject.  Oversight?  Appropriates?  Sciene and
Technology?  Areonautics?  But remember, whoever you approach in that
committe will be calling around for verification to NASA, NSA, etc.  and
that's likes putting in over a bullhorn inside the Beltway.

There are two other approaches to getting heard without announcing it too
loud first, and both involve finding a willing ear:
        1. Find an old timer, (the House definitely, forget the Senate) who
has no need of another term.  Sell HIM on the idea and the value, a great
departing moment, etc.
        2. Under some state laws, term limits may assist is finding a
sympathizer.

DC is a bitch to get around and get anything done.  But press is the name of
the game.  It is often asked, "Why are these issues reported by Tom Brokaw?"
on NBC, (CNN etc.) in a serious news vein:  Simple - no one wants to be the
first to look like a Geraldo clone.  However, if, and iff, a Congress kind
of person will play, a press conference can do amazing things to the media:
They get real worked up if a 'name' is playing.

Also, maybe some of the 'believer' ex astronaust mights be willing to
assist.  It's quite a job, and YES!

A plan is needed!  A good one.  Not fringe, but solid approach to questions
and answers and possibilities.

Good luck.  We need it.

--
Winn Schwartau - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (John Burke)
Subject: Roswell Investigation
Date: 6 Jan 92 00:57:00 GMT

Sheldon:

Here's my 2 cents' worth concerning FUFOR's grant proposals:

 >  ___ Project A -- To conduct further research into UFO
 >  crash/retrieval cases (Leonard Stringfield): $1,200

Naah!  There is an established problem with signal-to-noise here.

 >  ___ Project B -- To interview six additional witnesses
 >  (Don Schmitt): $1,700

Good one!  Numero Uno by me.

 >  ___ Project C -- To conduct hypnosis sessions with known
 > and potential witnesses (Stanton Friedman): $15,860

Like whom, Gerald Anderson?  (Yecch!)  Forget it!

 >  ___ Project D -- To conduct further research at the Truman
 > and Eisenhower Libraries, the Sandia and Los Alamos
 > Laboratories, and at the Library of Congress
 > (Stanton Friedman): $6,545

The Truman and Eisenhower Libraries, huh?  Do I detect the
fragrance of "Eau de MJ-12" or are we driving by a cow pasture?

 >  ___ Project E -- To produce a follow-up videotaped summary
 > of witness testimony (Fred Whiting): $500

Good idea!  Numero dos!  These should be done before proceeding
to the next project to insure its success:

 >  ___ Project F -- To bring significant witnesses to
 > Washington, DC, for a de-briefing by congressional staff
 > and interviews with media representatives
 > (Fred Whiting) $5,700

This one's a *must*!  Not only is it more useful to fly these
people to Washington than it is to hypnotize them, but it costs a
third as much!

 >  Any further suggestions:..............

Offer a reward to people like Bill Brazel or anyone else who may
still be holding Roswell debris, to come forward with it on live
television.    $100,000
                                     --  John

--
John Burke - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Suicides?
Date: 6 Jan 92 01:22:00 GMT

In a message to Clark Matthews <30 Dec 91 21:46> Linda Bird wrote:

 LB> Amazing story....

 LB> Thanks and Be Good!

Well, I try to be careful, anyway  :-)

Happy New Year!

Best,
  Clark


--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Noriega Trial
Date: 6 Jan 92 01:27:00 GMT

In a message to Clark Matthews <01 Jan 92 08:49> Jim Greenen wrote:

 JG>   Sorry Clark, the odds are not high enough. How about 50 to 1,
 JG> the I might bet you a quarter. ---Grin---

You're probably right.  I called my friend Manny the Shark in Atlantic City
and offered him 16:1.

He suggested I take my business to Walgreen's..

:-(

Best,
  Clark


--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Suicides?
Date: 6 Jan 92 01:28:00 GMT

In a message to Clark Matthews <01 Jan 92 08:53> Jim Greenen wrote:

 JG> You forgot James V. Forreststall (spelling not correct) and
 JG> probably thousands more that we are not aware of.    ---Jim---

Correcto-mundo.  I actually did recall the Defenestration of Forrestall after
I finished the message.

I actually have a file on Forrestall's death, but I don't know that anyone has
done a take-no-prisoners investigation.  Jumping out a window is a pretty
unusual way to go -- and it's so easy to "assist" such a suicide...

Best,
  Clark



--
Clark Matthews - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Ian Harper)
Subject: Ufo Magazine
Date: 5 Jan 92 04:01:00 GMT

Hi Don thanks for the reply about the ufo mag. I am cosysop a bbs and we like
to give as much information to our users as possible. do you know if there are
any good text files regarding ufo's in you area? and if so i would like to get
hold of them. (the cheapest way possible) as bbsing is not cheap.
if there is any thing i can di for you please let mr know
bye for now..........IAN
--
Ian Harper - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Michael Thomann)
Subject: Mistake
Date: 5 Jan 92 16:58:00 GMT

Doug,
For some reason my private message with references to the Addams F. was
not very private. Guess it ended up in the wrong place or I am just not
familiar with the BBS.  Anyway, if I'd of known that it would never of
been posted.
Mike T.

--
Michael Thomann - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: doc.imperial.ac.uk!aixssc.ibm.co.uk!rob
Subject: Radio Isotopes found in Corn
Date: 6 Jan 92 13:11:42 GMT

From: Robert Trevelyan <[e-mail]>


Hi,
 I have just heard that some samples of corn were taken from
 one of the Beckhampton 'fish' formations in 1991 by Michael
 Chorost on his visit to the UK. On his return to the USA
 these were passed on to Marshal Dudley for analysis and were
 found to contain 13 radio isotopes. Dutron [sp] was found,
 a proton/neutron highbrid  I'm told, and contained heavy nitrogen.
  This type of radio isotope does not occur naturally and could
 not be created without a lenear accelerator similar to the one
 at Stanford. At this point I am not sure how sinificant it is
 to the crop circle phenomena but if anyone has any knowledge of
 this type of isotope I would be interested to learn more about it.

 Other news on crop circles is that the Cereologist is due out any
 day now and the next CCCS monthly conference is on Jan 10th 1991
 at the Public Library, Kensington, London and is to be given by
 Michael Green, and starts at 7pm.

 Rumour has it that there have been some formations in Canada
 and I hope to get some more details on that one soon.

Regards, Robert

--
Robert Trevelyan   UKnet: [e-mail]
AIX Communications    VNET: TREVELR at NHBVM7
     Voice: [phone]




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: doc.imperial.ac.uk!aixssc.ibm.co.uk!rob
Subject: Doug and Dave in Australia???
Date: 6 Jan 92 13:12:07 GMT

From: Robert Trevelyan <[e-mail]>


Keith,
 Can you confirm whether Doug and Dave came to Australia
 in 1991. There was a rumour that they were doing the lecture
 circuit ahead of Colin Andrews and we know they went to
 Italy and Holland but cannot confirm if they went down under.

Thanks, Robert

--
Robert Trevelyan   UKnet: [e-mail]
AIX Communications    VNET: TREVELR at NHBVM7
     Voice: [phone]




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******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************

                Info-ParaNet Newsletters   Volume I  Number 522

                          Thursday, January 16th 1992

Today's Topics:

                            Australian Computer Book
                              Mj-12 And Bill Moore
                                    Suicides?
                          Radio Isotopes Found In Corn
                                 Re: CIS MESSAGE
                                    Nephilim
                                 Amazon Question
                              Roswell Investigation
                                    Suicides?
                              Roswell Investigation
                                   Texas Camps
                               Momentous Occasion
                            Australian Computer Book
            UFO RESEARCH IN AUSTRALIA & NEW ZEALAND digital book info
                          Diffraction for viewing UFOs
                            Australian Computer Book
                                  Re: Nephilim
                          Radio Isotopes Found In Corn
                          Responses to several messages
                                    Suicides?
                                   Texas Camps
                                    Re: Colds
                                  Keith's paper
                       Delphos Chemical, Hieronymous, etc.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Mark Rodeghier)
Subject: Australian Computer Book
Date: 7 Jan 92 03:03:01 GMT

Vladimir,

I attempted today to call the numbers you supplied for Dynamo House
to order a copy of the book.  I didn't get through and got the same
message both times about checking the number before calling again,
so I assume the numbers are somehow incorrect (I checked my dialing
carefully).

Do you know if the numbers are incorrect?  If so, do you have the
new ones?  Thanks.
Mark
--
Mark Rodeghier - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Mj-12 And Bill Moore
Date: 7 Jan 92 05:12:00 GMT


 > From: THURMAN_JIM/[e-mail]


 > I have been trying to find out the latest on the MJ-12 documents
 > and what has happened to Bill Moore.
 >
 > My understanding from reading the literature is that the MJ-12
 > papers were considered, by most researchers, to be faked...
 > possibly by Moore himself. If anyone has up-to-date information
 > on this I would greatly appreciate it. Also any new info on the
 > Groome Lake (Area 51) happenings would be of great interest. Thanks
 > in advance for any help!

As I have heard recently, Bill Moore is alive and well in LA.  Don Ecker has
recently interviewed him and was told that he was a "controlled asset" for the
spook community.  This article appears in the latest issue of UFO Magazine.
As we have always asserted, the MJ-12 documents are generally considered
fakes, however this does not answer a few open questions:  1)  Why? and 2)
Where did some of the interesting information contained in them come from?  As
most know, the MJ-12 documents list Donald Menzel as one of the "Unholy 12."
At first blush, this sounds completely preposterous as Don Menzel was one of
UFOlogists most colorful bashers, next to Phil Klass.  However, Stan
Friedman's latest research uncovered some very interesting things about
Menzel's "closet-life," including his involvement in high level intelligence
matters.  This would shed some different light on Menzel, and now brings to
the fore a big question about who in fact really hoaxed the documents.

Moore claims that he is still involved in some work for the spooks.

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Suicides?
Date: 7 Jan 92 05:17:00 GMT


 > Correcto-mundo.  I actually did recall the Defenestration of Forrestall
 > after I finished the message.
 >
 > I actually have a file on Forrestall's death, but I don't know that
 > anyone has done a take-no-prisoners investigation.  Jumping out a window
 > is a pretty unusual way to go -- and it's so easy to "assist" such a
 > suicide...

In reading "Blank Check" by Tim Weiner, he claims that Forrestal went bonkers
and began to think that the Japanese were poisoning him and following him
around, among other things.  Maybe Bill Moore was do a Bennewitz on him :-)

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Radio Isotopes Found In Corn
Date: 7 Jan 92 05:18:00 GMT


 > From: Robert Trevelyan <[e-mail]>

Keep us posted on where we can get a look at lab results of these tests to see
the procedures used to analyze them.

Thanks,

Mike

--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Pete Porro)
Subject: Re: CIS MESSAGE
Date: 5 Jan 92 11:22:18 GMT

Got your message and the address, I started making up a package of articles
for you. Should be leaving the office UPS on Monday or Tuesday.

As usual note the time on the message. a few hours sleep and here I am at
the keyboard again. For a change I'm at home not the office.

Nothing new on West who says the sphinx is much older than generally
accepted. How many days until 11:11? I'm not too concerned as time and the
dates are all man made and have nothing to do with the cosmic relationships.
--
Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Carl Aztec)
Subject: Nephilim
Date: 6 Jan 92 04:57:00 GMT


 >
 > Thanks for that information on Yahweh.  Have you read
 > any of Zecharia  Sitchin's books?

The 12th Planet and The Lost Realms. Someday I'll get around
to the others!

 > I was wondering if one of the
 > Sumerian gods could have been adopted by the Hebrews,
 > and, if so, which one?

Historically, religion seems to modify itself to fit the
needs of the believers who borrow heavily from earlier
religions and mythologies.  Of course from the believers
perspective the have "discovered" the religion.

 > The origin of religion fascinates me; what a mystery
 > it is!

You would probably enjoy a book called "The Power of Myth".
Basically it's a transcript of a PBS TV interview of Joseph
Campbell conducted by Bill Moyers (or perhaps you were lucky
enough to catch the TV series itself(?)).

I don't want to stray too far from the topic of this
conference, so perhaps to make this relevant I'll suggest
that perhaps our "New Age Aliens" are nothing more than
man's answer to an archetypical divine entity ala
Joseph Campbell and/or C.G. Jung.

--
Carl Aztec - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (John Hicks)
Subject: Amazon Question
Date: 6 Jan 92 01:42:03 GMT


 > Maybe something like Tristan Jones' tall, fair-skinned, red-haired group
 > of people in South America.

  You've read Tristan Jones?!!! Wow!
  I met him about nine years ago in Key West; kept the beer coming and he kept
the stories coming. Amazing guy! Maybe the fact that I was a scuzzy sailor
helped. ;-)
  Now that you mention it, I remember something about the fair-skinned people
too. I *think* it may have been in _Adrift_, but it's been so long since I've
read his books I don't remember.

                                           jbh

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From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Roswell Investigation
Date: 7 Jan 92 05:51:59 GMT

In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <05 Jan 92 17:57> John Burke wrote:

 JB> Sheldon:


 JB> Offer a reward to people like Bill Brazel or anyone else who may
 JB> still be holding Roswell debris, to come forward with it on live
 JB> television.    $100,000

I'd think any holdouts would have come forward long ago. The total take on a
real live piece of a flying saucer would be a helluva lot more than $100,000.
I'd say offer the money to any Pentagon insider with documents.

Jim


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From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Suicides?
Date: 7 Jan 92 05:54:19 GMT

In a message to Jim Greenen <05 Jan 92 18:28> Clark Matthews wrote:

 > JG> You forgot James V. Forreststall (spelling not correct) and
 > JG> probably thousands more that we are not aware of.    ---Jim---

 CM> Correcto-mundo.  I actually did recall the Defenestration of
 CM> Forrestall after I finished the message.

 CM> I actually have a file on Forrestall's death, but I don't know
 CM> that anyone has done a take-no-prisoners investigation.  Jumping
 CM> out a window is a pretty unusual way to go -- and it's so easy to
 CM> "assist" such a suicide...


Hmmm, where did I see just such a report recently??? Oh yeah, UFO Magazine,
latest ish, a book review that went into detail on the last days of Forrestal.
Apparently he WAS a very disturbed man.

Jim


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From: [e-mail] (John Burke)
Subject: Roswell Investigation
Date: 8 Jan 92 06:59:00 GMT

Jim Speiser writes:

 > I'd think any holdouts would have come forward long ago.
 > The total take on a real live piece of a flying saucer
 > would be a helluva lot more than $100,000.
 > I'd say offer the money to any Pentagon insider with
 > documents.

Yeah!  I just saw that guy on Larry King tonight, who was offered
$100,000 for a little piece of Scotch tape with some moon dust on
it!

A piece of "The Corona Express" should fetch a bigger price than
that!
                                                --  John

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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Don Ecker)
Subject: Texas Camps
Date: 8 Jan 92 06:58:00 GMT

Kay Mclaughlin asked;

 > Don,
 >
 > On the Chuck Harder Show the other night, I heard a snippet about how
 > various private pilots(?) have been seeing "concentration type camps"(!)
 > springing up in the wilds of Texas. I didn't catch the whole thing, but
 > it sounded weird, he said he was looking into it.
 >
 > Heard anything?

Kay, like many people researching the UFO field, I have heard various rumors
over the years about "detention camps" or "concentration camps" being set up
for various "polictical unreliables" in the event of internal U.S. problems.
Perhaps some of the various govt. types that inhabit this forum could
enlighten us but I will not hold my breath.

HOWEVER:

I to heard that on the Harder show, so I went investigating my newest version
of Ralph McGeHee's CIABASE. The following is what I found, and what McGeHee has
included in this fantastic computer database on the various covert agencies.
****************************************************************************


DOMESTIC OP

  COLONEL NORTH AND THE FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY (FEMA)
  DREW UP A PLAN TO SUSPEND THE CONSTITUTION, IMPOSE MARTIAL LAW,
  AND LOCK UP SOME 400,000 CENTRAL AMERICAN REFUGEES IN THE EVENT OF
  A PRESIDENTIAL DECLARATION OF A STATE OF NATIONAL EMERGENCY. MJ
  3/88 P12, 15-6 ALSO SEE MJ 4/88 P60

  FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY, FEMA. SHEEHAN OF CHRISTIC
  INSTITUTE LEARNED THAT THE ADMINISTRATION PLANS TO LOCK UP 400,
  000 CENTRAL AMERICANS REFUGEES IF THE PRESIDENT DECLARED A "STATE
  OF NATIONAL EMERGENCY" AT THE SAME TIME HE ORDERED AMERICAN TROOPS
  INTO ACTION IN CENTRAL AMERICA. FEMA TO COORDINATE OP. FEMA HEADED
  BY LOUIS GIUFFRIDA. FEMA WOULD USE 50 STATE NATIONAL GUARD ORGANIZATIONS
  AND NEWLY FORMED "STATE DEFENSE FORCES." PLANS TO FIGHT A NUCLEAR
  WAR INCLUDED FEMA. FEMA LABORED OVER SCHEMES TO EVACUATE URBAN
  POPULATION. NORTH WORKED DILIGENTLY ON ONE PORTION PLAN, THE SUSPENSION
  OF THE CONSTITUTION AND THE IMPOSITION OF MARTIAL LAW. OOC 92,
  113, MIAMI HERALD 7/5/87

  OLIVER NORTH HELPED THE FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY (FEMA)
  DRAFT A CLANDESTINE SCHEME TO IMPOSE MARTIAL LAW IN CASE OF NUCLEAR
  WAR, INSURRECTION, OR MASSIVE MILITARY MOBILIZATION. FEMA'S CRISIS
  MANAGEMENT PLAN WAS SIDETRACKED WHEN ATTORNEY GENERAL SMITH RAISED
  OBJECTIONS. PRO 9/87 P4

  REAGAN AIDES OPERATED A VIRTUAL GVT OUTSIDE THE TRADITIONAL CABINET
  DEPARTMENTS. ACTIVITIES INCLUDED: A CONTINGENCY PLAN TO SUSPEND
  THE CONSTITUTION AND IMPOSE MARTIAL LAW IN CASE OF NUCLEAR WAR
  OR NATIONAL REBELLION TO BE ADMINISTERED BY THE FEDERAL EMERGENCY
  MANAGEMENT AGENCY (FEMA); DISSEMINATION OF INFO THAT CAST NICARAGUA
  AS A THREAT TO ITS NEIGHBORS; CREATION IN  80  OF OCTOBER SURPRISE
  GROUP TO MONITOR PRES CARTER'S NEGOTIATIONS WITH IRAN FOR THE RELEASE
  OF 52 HOSTAGES. OLIVER NORTH WAS AT THE HEART OF THE GROUP. IN
  11/ 81  THE CIA FLEW ARGENTINA MILITARY LEADER GEN LEOPOLDO GALTIERI
  TO D.C. TO DEVISE A SECRET AGREEMENT FOR ARGENTINA TO TRAIN NICARAGUAN
  REBELS. MIAMI HERALD, 7/5/87 A1,14

LAW

  NORTH'S PLAN TO SUSPEND CONSTITUTION AND IMPOSE MARTIAL LAW IN
  EVENT NATIONAL CRISES IN "OPPOSITION TO U.S. MILITARY INVASION
  ABROAD." CONTROL OF U.S. TO BE TURNED OVER TO FEMA. CT 42

************************************************************************

So, we can now see that FEMA appears to be ONE of the bogeymen at the heart of
the problem. I wonder if they also handle UFOs?

Don

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From: [e-mail] (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: Momentous Occasion
Date: 9 Jan 92 04:53:00 GMT


 > In addition to wishing you all a Happy New Year, it is also my
 > distinct pleasure to wish you all a
 >
 > HAPPY 6TH ANNIVERSARY OF PARANET!
 >
 >
 > Here's to another memorable year of the world's most intelligent
 > online conversations on the paranormal!

HAPPY 6TH ANNIVERSARY - LIVE LONG AND PROSPER PARANET!

And you, too, Michael! Thanks for everything.

Vlad

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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: Australian Computer Book
Date: 9 Jan 92 05:57:00 GMT


 > I attempted today to call the numbers you supplied for Dynamo
 > House to order a copy of the book.  I didn't get through and got
 > the same message both times about checking the number before
 > calling again, so I assume the numbers are somehow incorrect (I
 > checked my dialing carefully).  >
 > Do you know if the numbers are incorrect?  If so, do you have
 > the new ones?  Thanks.

Mark,

I just polled Paranet and got your message. I then called Telecom
Australia Overseas telephone assistance and told them about your
problem. They told me that you should NOT dial 03 (this is our
internal interstate accesss number) because that only applies to
people calling within Australia. I know I've had similar problems
with our nodelist telephone number.  My code here in Cairns is 070
but on our nodelist we have to drop first 0 and just have 70. Well, I
don't know why we have all these complications.

Anyway, this is what you should dial:

011 - 61 - 3 - 427 - 0955  or

011 - 61 - 3 - 428 - 3636.

and , of course, fax number should be changed accordingly.

I did not put in my original message international access code (011)
because I am sure people in the USA know that.

Sorry about it Mark. BTW - did you get my netmail message re the
book, I posted about a week ago? It refers to Jerry  Clark and the
book. I'll be polling again next Saturday evening (our time) and
perhaps you can let me know then. Thanks.

Vladimir

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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: UFO RESEARCH IN AUSTRALIA & NEW ZEALAND digital book info
Date: 9 Jan 92 06:15:00 GMT


 * Forwarded from "Info.paranet"
 * Originally from Vladimir Godic
 * Originally dated 12-22-91 23:42


The book is available directly from:

                              DYNAMO HOUSE Pty Ltd
                              PO BOX 110
                              RICHMOND  VIC  3121
                              AUSTRALIA

TEL: [phone]
  or 61- 03-428- 3636             Fax: [phone]

__________________________________________________________________

MARK RODEGHIER FROM CUFOS ADVISED HE COULD NOT DIAL THE ABOVE
TELEPHONE NUMBERS. I HAVE CHECKED WITH TELECOM AUSTRALIA AND THEY TOLD
ME THAT "0" IN FRONT OF "03" SHOULD BE DROPPED. "0" IS OUR INTERNAL
ACCESS CODE AND IS ONLY APPLICABLE TO CALLS WITHIN AUSTRALIA.

THE CORRECT NUMBERS ARE:

011-61-3-427-0955 or

011-61-3-428-3636

Also please adjust FAX numbers accordingly.

I have included this time you international access code as well.

Sorry about it - I didn't know.

Vlad Godic



COST:  Australian $ 30.00 plus postage

POSTAGE:  Air mail to U.S.A. $2.50 (Australian)
          Air mail to U.K.   $3.00 (Australian)

The book can be purchased on VISA credit card, or cheque, (in
Australian currency) and will be despatched by return mail.

Within Australia the above price applies but at local postal rates.

For any further enquiries please contact me direct or, if you prefer,
contact the publisher.

--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: udel.edu!thomas%mvac23.uucp
Subject: Diffraction for viewing UFOs
Date: 8 Jan 92 22:44:08 GMT

From: Thomas Lapp <[e-mail]>

In some earlier messages, people were talking about using a
spectroscope to break out a light source into frequencies to
see if the light was from a known type of source.

A diffraction grating will do the same thing and is easy to
use.  In fact, my latest Edmund Scientific catalog came today
and offers the following in terms of diffraction gratings:

8 1/2 x 11 inch sheet -- A40,267  $7.30
3-D-type glasses with gratings instead of coloured lenses
are 5-pair for $6.95 (A42319)

Cardboard mounted slides (ie. 35mm slides) are available too:
15 for $14.50 (A1307) or 25 for $19.95 (A39502).
tel for E.S is [phone].

(disclaimer:  I've ordered from'em, but not related to 'em).

When taking a physics class I was given one of the cardboard slide
gratings.  It works really well, and you can easily see the
difference between sodium vapor and incandescent and mercury vapor
at long distances.  We used them in the lab with flourescent tubes
made from specific gases to see their makeup visually.
                         - tom
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             : [e-mail] (work)
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Mark Rodeghier)
Subject: Australian Computer Book
Date: 9 Jan 92 00:57:01 GMT

Vladimir:
Thanks for the quick reply.  I did get your message about the one
copy of the book that was promised to Jerry Clark, which we thank
you for.  We need two copies because Jerry isn't in Chicago and has
no plans to return soon.  I'll dial the number without the internal
access code and order our other copy soon.
Mark
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Nephilim
Date: 9 Jan 92 01:32:00 GMT

Hi Carl,

Thanks for message!  I've read 2 1/2 of Sitchin's book.  Loved
GENESIS REVISITED.

Thanks for tip on Campbell's books.  I know his material was a hit a
few years ago, but, at the time, I wasn't "into all this."

Regards,

Linda

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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Radio Isotopes Found In Corn
Date: 9 Jan 92 04:09:01 GMT



In a message to All <06-Jan-92 12:15> Robert Trevelyan wrote:

RT> I have just heard that some samples of corn were taken from
RT> one of the Beckhampton 'fish' formations in 1991 by Michael
RT> Chorost on his visit to the UK. On his return to the USA
RT> these were passed on to Marshal Dudley for analysis and were
RT> found to contain 13 radio isotopes.

Robert, as an important point of clarification here, the samples
Michael provided Marshall with were "soil", not "corn" as stated.

The 13 short-lived radonuclides observed were:
Gold-194, Lead-203, Europium-146, Tellurium-119m (m=metastable),
Thallium-202, Iodine-126, Bismuth-205, Vanadium-48,
Protactinium-230, Ytterbium-169, Yttrium-88, Rhodium-102,
Rhodium-102m. None but Gold-194 and Thallium-202 were observed in
the control.

RT> Dutron [sp] was found, a proton/neutron highbrid I'm told, and
RT> contained heavy nitrogen.

No Robert, "Deuteron Activation" is the method of radonuclide
synthesis posited by Dudley and Chorost to have generated the
aforementioned isotopes. NO DUTRON [sic], (I believe you mean
deuteron) was detected in the samples! Deuterium is a hydrogen atom
which contains the addition of 1 neutron to its nucleus. Regular
hydrogen consists of 1 proton and 1 electron. Deuterium is also
called "heavy hydrogen" NOT "nitrogen". The "deuteron" is the
nucleus of the deuterium atom, which is regarded as a single
subatomic particle.

RT> This type of isotope does not occur naturally and could
RT> not be created without a lenear accelerator similar to the one
RT> at Stanford.

Incorrect...this isotope IS naturally occurring in sea-water in a
ratio of approximately 1:6500, and is a stable atomic species.

Finally, there are other potential problems with the data. The
short-lived radonuclides described are from only ONE formation, and
there was only ONE control sample taken. Additionally, the gamma
spectroscopy peaks observed could have been decoded incorrectly.
Gamma spec data is difficult to interpret. Lastly, if deuteron
activation was the method by which the 13 isotopes were created,
there should also have been additional isotopes detected that were
absent in the samples.

What we now have is some intriguingly suggestive data which has yet
to be corroborated, but Dudley and Chorost are deserving of great
praise for the work they've accomplished thus far.

-= Sheldon =-
@ FamilyNet International Echogate  FIDO 1:11/50
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: udel.edu!thomas%mvac23.uucp
Subject: Responses to several messages
Date: 9 Jan 92 06:37:50 GMT

From: Thomas Lapp <[e-mail]>

Responses to several messages which appeared in the 7 Jan 92 issue
of the paranet digest, which appears to have messages from Christmas
week.

+ From: [e-mail] (Sheldon Wernikoff)
+ Subject: Suicides?
+ Date: 20 Dec 91 04:50:01 GMT
+
+ In a message to Vladimir Godic <17-Dec-91> Jim Greenen wrote:
+
+ JG> In America, there is a high percentage of researchers in UFOs
+ JG> and government secrets that commit suicide....

I think I could find some reasoning for this, if the facts do indeed
come out this way.  The main reason that most of us don't commit
suicide is that 1. fear of pain greater than desire to die and
2. religious teachings against it.  I could easily see that if a
UFO researcher believed very much in his topic, he could come to
the conclusion of an athiest, and also conclude that there is no
'penalty' to self-inflicted death (unlike many religions which
teach that there is a penalty of some type for doing so).

Does this make a plausible reason?

+ From: [e-mail] (Andre Eichner)
+ Subject: Gulg Breeze Gifs.
+ Date: 13 Dec 91 06:07:00 GMT
+
+ In a msg of <01 Dec 91>, Don Allen writes to Jim Speiser:
+
+  DA> To convert a GIF for posting on the Net requires that you must first
+  DA> uuencode it from an 8 bit file format to a 7 bit ASCII text format so
+  DA> it can be transmitted around the world intact in message format.
+
+ It's better to install a tick-file echo...

This would be fine for files going only to other echo sites, but since
files may be transmitted across gateways to other networks (internet,
compuserve, etc) uuencoding makes sense.  Gateways have a tendency to
not work real well with 8-bit data, but almost all will pass the
ASCII set, which is what makes up uuencoded files.
                         - tom
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Clark Matthews)
Subject: Suicides?
Date: 7 Jan 92 22:36:00 GMT


Hi Mike.  Interesting about Blank Check & Forrestall's paranoia.

I haven't read the book -- does Weiner cite any sources for his information?
I understand the family has refused to say anything about the death in the past.

Best,
  Clark


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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Don Allen)
Subject: Texas Camps
Date: 7 Jan 92 15:20:00 GMT


 * Replying to a message originally to Don Ecker

 KM> Don,
 KM>
 KM> On the Chuck Harder Show the other night, I heard a snippet
 KM> about how
 KM> various private pilots(?) have been seeing "concentration
 KM> type camps"(!)
 KM> springing up in the wilds of Texas. I didn't catch the
 KM> whole thing, but
 KM> it sounded weird, he said he was looking into it.

This sounds suspiciously like the REX-84 Bravo plan (FEMA) plan..

What's that you ask?

I have this snippet handy:




                         SECRET CONCENTRATION CAMPS

       The September issue of THE OSTRICH reprinted a story from the
   CBA BULLETIN which listed the following principal civilian concentra-
   tion camps established in GULAG USA under the =Rex '84= program:
   Ft. Chaffee, Arkansas; Ft. Drum, New York; Ft. Indian Gap, Penn-
   sylvania; Camp A. P. Hill, Virginia; Oakdale, California; Eglin
   Air Force Base, Florida; Vendenberg AFB, California; Ft. Mc Coy,
   Wisconsin; Ft. Benning, Georgia; Ft. Huachuca, Arizona; Camp
   Krome, Florida.  The February OSTRICH printed a map of the expanding
   Gulag.  Alhough this listing and map stirred considerable interest,
   the report was not new.  For at least 20 years, knowledgeable Patriots
   have been warning of these sinister plots to incarcerate dissidents
   opposing plans of the =Elitist Syndicate= for a totalitarian
   =New World Order=.  Indeed, the plot was recognized with the insidious
   encroachment of "regionalism" back in the 1960's.  As early as 1968,
   the "greatest land steal in history" leading to global corporate
   socialism, was in a ="Master Land Plan"= for the United States
   by =Executive Orders= involving water resource regions,
   population movement and control, pollution control, zoning
   and land use, navigation and environmental bills, etc.  Indeed,
   the real undercover aim of the so-called "Environmental Rennaissance"
   has been the abolition of private property.
       All prelude to the total grab of the =World Conservation Bank=,
   as THE OSTRICH has been reporting.  The map on this page and
   the list of executive orders available for imposition of an "emergency"
   are from 1970s files of the late Gen. =P. A. Del Valle's= ALERT,
   sent us by =Merritt Newby=, editor of the now defunct AMERICAN
   CHALLENGE.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Texas isn't mentioned in here that I could see. But then this text is
a bit old. Curious though..

Don

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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Greenen)
Subject: Re: Colds
Date: 8 Jan 92 01:06:02 GMT


 LB> Hi Jim,
 LB>
 LB> You seem to have a good attitude towards women, and I like
 LB> that!
 LB>
 LB> My cold still lingers...I just ate half a pound
 LB> cake...weird cravings when I'm sick.  My husband was eating
 LB> pretzels, pickles, and green olives when he was sick last
 LB> week!  (honest!)
 LB>
 LB> Take care!
 LB>
 LB> Linda

  I am going to get killed for this but I think women are superior
to men in most everything.
   The pretzels goes real good with the beer and the olive is for
the martini but can't for the sake of me figure out what he was
drinking to compliment the pickles????   ---Grin---
   He hasn't been getting sick in the mornings, has he???
            --... ...--   <<< JIM >>>
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: violet.berkeley.edu!chalmers
Subject: Keith's paper
Date: 9 Jan 92 13:45:39 GMT

From: [e-mail] (John H. Chalmers Jr.)

For Keith Basterfield:

 The latest Skeptical Inquirer (vol.16, #2, winter 1992, p.188)
has a short review of your paper on abductees. Barring typo's and
special fonts which I can't transmit, I've reproduced it verbatim
below. Is it a fair and accurate summary of your and your
colleagues findings and conclusions?

 Bartholomew, Robert E., Keith Basterfield, and George S.
Howard. 'UFO Abductees and Contactees: Psychopathology or Fantasy
Proneness?' Professional Psychology: Research and Practice 22(3):
215-222. 1991.  Study of a sample of 152 UFO contactees and abductees
finds that 132 have characteristics of the fantasy-prone personality
(FPP). Although they appear to function as normal, healthy adults,
the authors say, FPP's experience rich fantasy lives and score
dramatically higher than control groups on such characteristics as
hypnotic susceptibility, religious visions and apparitional experiences.
They suggest clinicians consider testing contactees and abductees for
fantasy proneness.

 This sounds like a fascinating study, to say the least.
--- John




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: violet.berkeley.edu!chalmers
Subject: Delphos Chemical, Hieronymous, etc.
Date: 9 Jan 92 13:45:52 GMT

From: [e-mail] (John H. Chalmers Jr.)

Reply to Jim Speiser:
 The description of the chemical that Faruk found at the Delphos site
is consistent with ordinary soap (Ivory, etc., not synthetic detergents).
Soaps are the sodium and potassium salts of stearic, palmitic, oleic,
and other medium to long chain fatty acids. Such substances are common
in nature and are essential components and metabolic intermediates
of virtually all organisms.
 Most of the fats, oils, and waxes of plant, animal, and
microbial origin are esters of fatty acids. The free acids are released
upon digestion and decomposition and free fatty acids would form
salts with metallic ions in the soil and very possibly with reagents
and buffers during Faruk's analysis.
 Other metal ions also form soaps: insoluble calcium and magnesium
soaps form as 'scum' when one adds soap to hard water. Lithium soaps
are used in greases and other fatty acid derivatives are widely used
in industry and industrial products.
 While saturated fatty acids and their derivatives are reasonably
stable in the absence of microbial degradation, unsaturated fatty acids
react with oxygen to become rancid (peroxides, aldehydes, etc.). Some
unsaturated oils (drying oils such as linseed) polymerize to higher
molecular weight materials.
 Fatty acids are also intermediates in the microbial oxidation of
petroleum products. My own experience with using unleaded gasoline to
kill fire ants in my yard indicates that grass does not grow on the
treated soil for up to a year after application. If gasoline, diesel
fuel, paint thinner, etc. were spread on the ground, it might take
several years for vegetation to grow back completely.
 So, I don't see how the presence of fatty acid salts per se at a
site is evidence for ET visitation or other paranormal activity.

 I'll try to find a copy of JUFOS.

 Yes.  Stine has a section on 'symbolic Hieronymous machines' where
the innards in the box were replaced by a drawing of the the circuit
diagram, though the prism, antenna, goniometer and pad were retained
as the interface. Both he and Campbell claim positive results.
 Stine's book is a good source, even if one doesn't agree with
him. He has also written a good book on model rocketry.

 There was a short garble in my description of George Van
Tassell's 'integratron' for which Hieronymous made electrical parts.
I intended to say that the structure was first presented as a
time travel device and later as an apparatus for healing.
It may have become a discotheque since Van Tassell died and his widow
sold the property, but I don't know.

--- John





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******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************

                Info-ParaNet Newsletters   Volume I  Number 523

                          Saturday, January 18th 1992

Today's Topics:

                                     (none)
                      Implants and physical control of mind
                                     (none)
                                  Noriega Trial
                                  New Planets?
                      Christmas Unsolved Mysteries episode
                                    Suicides?
                       Delphos Chemical, Hieronymous, etc.
                                  New Planets?
                               Stanton T. Friedman
                         The Dragon and Devil's Triangle
                               Siberian Encounter
                                  UFO suicides?
                                  Maitreya 1/2
                                Re: RADIO ISOTOP
                                  Maitreya 2/2
                                      Price
                                      Info

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: ecn.purdue.edu!lush
Subject: (none)
Date: 9 Jan 92 22:31:12 GMT

From: [e-mail] (Gregory B Lush)


Subject:  Implants and physical control of mind

For those of you who are interested in implants and the like,
you really ought to read a book by Delgado.

        Physical control of the mind: toward a psychocivilized society
        Jose Manuel R. Delgado
        New York : Harper & Row, 1971, c1969.
        Keyword:  Electronic behavior control.

This book describes experiments done in the 50s and 60s on animals such
as cats, monkeys, and humans.  They describe implants made into the brains
of these 'animals' and how they could be used to cause certain desired
behavior.  Among the emotions that could be excited are rage, depression,
and fear (and probably anything else) in the absence of outer stimuli
which would normally cause such things.  The implants were radio-controlled
so the humans and animals could be observed while operating 'normally'
in their 'environment.'  It was easy to suddenly make a person feel bad,
good, hungry, satisfied, depressed, elated--the only uncertainty they
had was getting the probes in the right place in the brain during the
operation.

At that time the electrical signals were simple radio waves at
extremely low frequency--less than 10 Hz.  (Remember that ELF waves
at 60 Hz can cause disorientation, depression, and others when the
intensity is modulated.)  The author insisted that control of humans
was not possible since the only thing they could do was vary the
voltage and frequency--but that was 25 years ago.  Even then,
the implants were hardly noticeable and if wearing a hat, you could
not tell--there were some pictures.

There are some interesting conclusions from the author regarding the
'value' of his studies to humankind.  One thing he wanted to do was
to find the area of the brain responsible for hate and anger so that
it could be removed.  Yes, removed.  We would just be a race of
groovy, loving, squirrel-petting good-people.  That's just the kind
of peachy world I want to live in.

I think you should read this so that you will understand the extent
of human capabilities in this area of mind control through implants.
This research has continued, you can be sure.  Read the conclusions
carefully, and you will be able to discern the direction of future
research.  The title should tell you something as well.

Greg ([e-mail])





--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: ecn.purdue.edu!lush
Subject: (none)
Date: 10 Jan 92 00:33:49 GMT

From: [e-mail] (Gregory B Lush)


Subject:  Noriega Trial

Dr. John Coleman is an expert in intelligence and is now
contributing to the Phoenix Liberator.  He wrote an article
in the last issue about the Noriega trial.  He talked about
the weakness of the prosecution's case, the judge's behavior,
and how the flow of drugs has increased since he was taken,
after steadily decreasing while he was in power.

It's well written with some inside information from his
own unnamed sources.  He also talks about something called the
Defoe Report which is unavailable to the public because of
'national security'--it allegedly details Bush's involvement.

If any of you would like a copy of the article,
I can make copies and send them to you at no cost.

Dr. Coleman also wrote a nice piece on JFK which brings up a
British connection (MI6)--something I haven't heard mentioned
in all this about JFK.  The British would want JFK dead because
he was going to start printing government notes rather than
Federal Reserve Notes.  British banks own a significant interest
of the Federal Reserve banks.

I can copy it too.

Greg ([e-mail])





--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: New Planets?
Date: 9 Jan 92 23:37:06 GMT


 Greetings!  By now most of you have probably heard the announcement that some
scientists think they have located 2-3 planets circling a pulsar.

From The Phoenix Republic (condensed):

  This information was presented in today's issue of the journal NATURE.  The 2
observatories that worked on the study were the Arecibo Observatory in Puerto
Rico, and the National Radio Astronomy Observatory in Socorro, NM.

  The 2 planets, and possibly 3, are orbiting a pulsar, labeled PSR1257+12,
about 1300 lt years from Earth in the direction of the constellation VIRGO.

 The alledged planets were discovered due to a 1000 miles wobble in the pulsar.
One apparent planet, containing 2.8 times the mass of Earth, appears to orbit
the pulsar every 98.2 days at about half the distance between the Earth and
sun.  The other planet, with at least 3.4 times Earth's mass, appears
to orbit every 66.6 days at just over 1/3 the distance between the Earth and
sun.

Results also suggest that the possibility of a third planet that orbits about
once a year.

  The planets may have a density and composition similar to Earth's, altho
there is little evidence of that point.

  But "life as we know it most certainly does not exist" on them because the
pulsar bombards them with  "a really vicious mix of gamma rays and X-rays," and
particles moving neanr the speed of light, says Alexander Wolszczan, senior
research associate at Arecibo.

End.

WOW!  Can finding an Earth-like planet be far behind??

Linda


--
Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com!vanth!jms
Subject: Christmas Unsolved Mysteries episode
Date: 10 Jan 92 07:14:03 GMT

From: vanth![e-mail] (Jim Shaffer)

To: Jim Speiser

+We seem to have a basketball game playing at that time. Is that just us here
+in Phoenix?

The Internet mailings were shut down for the holidays, so I didn't see this
until now.

Several people on Usenet said the show wasn't on in their area.  It was on
the station I get though, and the Bentwaters part was exactly the same as
the first time -- no updates, and no (as someone else predicted)
revelations.

--
 *  From the disk of: | [e-mail]                 | I'm in a groove now
 Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms         | -- or is it a rut?
 37 Brook Street      | [e-mail] |
 Montgomery, PA 17752 | [e-mail]      | (Rush, 'Face Up')




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com!vanth!jms
Subject: Suicides?
Date: 10 Jan 92 07:14:21 GMT

From: vanth![e-mail] (Jim Shaffer)

To: Jim Greenen

+   Well, lets see--- We got Dr. James McDonald, Morris K. Jessup to
+name 2. Also according to Lars Hannson, there were 3 this year that
+commited suicide. One was the person that uncovered the Inslaw
+dealings.

Casolaro.  (I noticed some similarities to Jessup at the time, but I've
forgotten the details since then.)

+   I'm not really good with names but I can get ahold with Lars
+(seems to have disappeared) I could get you the names. Not all these

Lars was on 'Radio Free America' a few weeks ago, but I missed it.  (Heard
about it the next night.)  If anybody caught the show, what did he have to
say?

+people that research or are involved with Ufology or other reseach
+commit ssuicid. Some seem to meet with unfortunate accidents. The 20

Don't you wish we knew what was going on in England?

--
 *  From the disk of: | [e-mail]                 | I'm in a groove now
 Jim Shaffer, Jr.     | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms         | -- or is it a rut?
 37 Brook Street      | [e-mail] |
 Montgomery, PA 17752 | [e-mail]      | (Rush, 'Face Up')




--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Delphos Chemical, Hieronymous, etc.
Date: 10 Jan 92 15:52:41 GMT

John:

Thanks so much for your input on Delphos. I am hoping that Mark Rodeghier has
seen your message and will transmit it to Faruk for response.

You continue to be a valuable asset to this network, and to the flow of ideas
on this subject in general. Which is not to say that I think you've given us
the last word on Delphos, as there are other characteristics of the
unidentified substance, such as chemiluminescence, hydrophobicity, etc., that
need to be addressed, but I'm hoping you will be able to get your hands on
JUFOS and address these as well. I do think you've come up with a good
candidate, i.e. gasoline - it makes sense so far.

Jim

--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: New Planets?
Date: 10 Jan 92 15:58:55 GMT

In a message to All <09 Jan 92 16:37> Linda Bird wrote:


 LB> WOW!  Can finding an Earth-like planet be far behind??

Not to rain on your parade, but the answer to your query is unfortunately,
"yes, it can be." Figure it took us 300 years of astronomy just to find a
likely candidate for a planet. Taking the technology curve into account, it may
be another 50 or so before we find and confirm anything earth-like. But it
COULD also happen next week....


Jim


--
Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Stanton T. Friedman
Date: 11 Jan 92 03:07:00 GMT

This is to announce that Stanton T. Friedman, nuclear physicist and lecturer,
will be presenting FLYING SAUCERS ARE REAL! on February 2nd in Portland,
Oregon, 6 P.M., Red Lion Hotel-Lloyd Center, 1000 N.E. Multnomah.  This
lecture is being sponsored by PUFOG (Portland UFO Group).  For further
information, phone [phone].

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Sir Wildfire)
Subject: The Dragon and Devil's Triangle
Date: 8 Jan 92 15:28:16 GMT

A good book I have read lately is Titled 'The Dragon's Triangle' by
Charles Berlitz, who also wrote the books 'The Bermuda Triangle' and
'Atlantis'. In this book, there are some accounts of UFO's being seen in
TDT. This book tries to give all possible causes for the mysterious
happenings in TDT and mentions the TBT too. If you are interested in
such places and their possible connection to UFOs, I recommend this book
to get a background in the sightings made in these areas.

               Charles Centers


--
Sir Wildfire - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Siberian Encounter
Date: 11 Jan 92 05:55:02 GMT


Hi Mark,

I recently received the Nov/Dec issue of IUR, and as usual,
thoroughly enjoyed reading it.

I did find something very puzzling however in "Encounter over
Siberia", written by Richard Haines.

Vladimir Kuzmin, the Soviet....er, uh...Russian? pilot who sighted
a UFO while piloting his L-29 jet trainer, seemed to recall the
incident in splendid detail, except for one minor problem. He
apparently didn't remember what day it was! Don't you find that a
bit odd?

Dr. Haines begins the article by stating that the incident occurred
"in central Siberia between 3 and 3:30 P.M. local time on December
24 or 25, 1989". That's only two years ago, and were talking about
Xmas eve or Xmas day! Didn't he file a flight plan? How could he
possibly not recall the day?

Perhaps it was Dr. Haines that was uncertain? Regardless, it struck
me like a ton of bricks, and left me wary of the entire account.

Take care,

Sheldon

--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: UFO suicides?
Date: 11 Jan 92 05:57:03 GMT



In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <09-Jan-92 12:08>
Thomas Lapp wrote:

TL> From: [e-mail] (Sheldon
TL> Wernikoff)
TL> Subject: Suicides?
TL> Date: 20 Dec 91 04:50:01 GMT
TL> In a message to Vladimir Godic <17-Dec-91> Jim Greenen wrote:
TL=> JG> In America, there is a high percentage of researchers in
TL=> UFOs and government secrets that commit suicide....

TL> The main reason that most of us don't commit
TL> suicide is that 1. fear of pain greater than desire to die

Naaah, technologically advanced suicide techniques can be quite
painless, even pleasurable, although no one's come back with a
testimonial that I know of.

TL> and 2. religious teachings against it.

Some truth there I think, although I've found ufologists on the
whole to be quite non-religious, at least in the traditional sense.
I think those who contemplate suicide and fail, fear losing the
only real reality they know.

I think the point Jim Greenen was driving at here was that these
"suicides" were acutually murders, disguised as suicides! Please
correct me Jim if I am wrong.

Take care,

Sheldon Wernikoff @ FIDO 1:11/50

--
Sheldon Wernikoff - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Don Allen)
Subject: Maitreya 1/2
Date: 10 Jan 92 08:45:00 GMT


I pulled this off the talk.religion.newage newsgroup on Usenet

My comment: I first heard about Maitreya in 1981 through the works
of Benjamin Creme and the Tara Foundation. There was hubbub at the
local "New Age" store near me so I went into to find out and started
reading some of their literature and bought a book while I was there.

Then from time to time I would drop by this bookstore and find that
the Theosophy group (Alice Bailey) teachings were very specific as
to certain of it's teachings on Maitreya, the "Cosmic Christ". I can
cite "The externalisation of The Hierarchy" "Discipleship in the New
Age" as examples.

What has been coming up from time to time is the reference to the
_publisher_ of the Alice Bailey works..It was changed, I understand
from "Lucifer Trust" to "Lucis Trust" in the early 20's due to public
outcry, but this is all I know..If someone can produce hard references
I'd much appreciate it.

In the Spring of 1982, after much hoopla, the long-claimed "Re-Emergence"
that was scheduled to come off...came and went and NO Maitreya showed
up..

Anyways,I'm doing an investigation into some links I see between this
"Maitreya" and the Gaia cult and their influence on the UN..if anyone
can contribute some info..I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!

--Begin Maitreya pt 1-----------------------------------------------------

Article 5744 of talk.religion.newage:
From: [e-mail] (Walter D. Pullen)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,talk.religion.misc,talk.religion.newage
Subject: MAITREYA -- The Return Of The Christ!
Summary: Rejoice, The Beginning is near!
Keywords: Maitreya, Christ
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Jan 92 08:30:03 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Washington Computer Science
Lines: 268


|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|  The Great Invocation
|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|

               From the point of Light within the Mind of God
                Let light stream forth into the minds of men.
                        Let Light descend on Earth.

               From the point of Love within the Heart of God
                Let love stream forth into the hearts of men.
                        May Christ return to Earth.

               From the centre where the Will of God is known
                 Let purpose guide the little wills of men -
                The purpose which the Masters know and serve.

               From the centre which we call the race of men
                  Let the Plan of Love and Light work out
                And may it seal the door where evil dwells.

                        Let Light and Love and Power
                         restore the Plan on Earth.

|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|  Teacher Returns
|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|

He has been expected for generations by all of the major religions.
Christians know Him as the Christ, and expect His imminent return. The
Jews await Him as the Messiah; the Hindus look for the coming of
Krishna; Buddhists expect Him as Maitreya Buddha; the Muslims
anticipate the Imam Mahdi. The names may be different but they all
designate the same One: the World Teacher, whose personal name is
Maitreya. He returns now, at the beginning of the age of Aquarius, as
the teacher and guide for those of every religion and those of no
religion.
     Concerned primarily about the economic, political and social
imbalances in the world today, He will first launch a call to action
to save the millions of people who starve to death every year in a
world of plenty. He will then show humanity the way to regenerate
itself and to anchor brotherhood and peace in the world by creating a
civilization based on sharing, justice and cooperation. His presence
is our guarantee that there will be no third World War. Nevertheless,
it is humanity itself which must make the required changes and fashion
the saner and more just world the Christ will inspire us to create.


|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|  A Gradual Emergence
|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|

Information about the Christ's emergence has come primarily from
Benjamin Creme, a British artist and esotericist who has been speaking
and writing about this event since 1975. According to Creme, Maitreya
the Christ descended in July 1977 from His ancient retreat in the
Himalayas and took up residence in the Asian community of London.
There He lives and works as a seemingly ordinary man. His true status
known to relatively few. He has been emerging *gradually* into full
public view so as not to infringe humanity's free will.
     A modern man concerned with today's problems, Maitreya has worked
on many levels since 1977 to prepare humanity for His outward
presence. The continuous outpouring of His energy into the world is
stimulating us to take practical action to avoid nuclear war, put an
end to hunger and prevent environmental catastrophe. He has also met
privately with groups of journalists and influential leaders from all
fields, informing them of His solutions to today's most pressing
problems and of the role they might play.
     Within the Asian community He has addressed large audiences,
presenting in the simplest terms the great spiritual laws governing
our lives. And through steadily increasing signs and spiritual
manifestations in other parts of the world, He has touched the hearts
of millions.
     A Major step in drawing the public's attention to His emergence
was taken in mid-1988, when a London-based journalist received the
first of many interviews with one of Maitreya's close associates in
the Asian community. Released to the press and published monthly in
"Share International" magazine since 1988, these remarkable interviews
have included Maitreya's penetrating analysis of world trends, His
forecasts concerning world events, and His teachings on a broad range
of topics, from Self-realization to market forces.
     As both the signs and documented accounts of appearances by
Maitreya have multiplied, and as His forecasts have begun to come
true, the interest from both the media and the public has intensified.


|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|  Day of Declaration  |=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|

At the earliest possible moment, Maitreya will demonstrate His true
identity. On the Day of Declaration, the international radio and
television networks will be linked together, and Maitreya will be
invited to speak to the world. We will see His face on television, but
each of us will hear His words telepathically in our own language as
Maitreya simultaneously overshadows all of humanity. Even those who
are not watching Him on television or listening to the radio will have
this experience. At the same time, hundreds of thousands of
spontaneous healings will take place throughout the world. In this way
we will know that this man, and only this man, is truly the Christ.


|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|  Maitreya's Mission  |=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|

Many people await the return of the Christ with trepidation and fear.
They sense that His appearance will promote great changes in all
departments of life. His values, they rightly assume, will necessarily
alter their ways of thinking and living, and they blanch at such a
prospect. Besides, so mystical has been the view of the Christ
presented down the centuries by the churches, that many fear His
judgement and omnipotent power; they await Him as God come to punish
the wicked and reward the faithful.
     It is sadly to be regretted that such a distorted vision of the
Christ should so have permeated human consciousness. No such being
exists. In order to understand the true nature of the Christ it is
necessary to see Him as one among equal Sons of God, each endowed with
full divine potential, differing only in the degree of manifestation
of that divinity.
     That He has achieved the fullness of that divinity is His Glory,
and well may we stand in reverence at this achievement. That this same
achievement is rare indeed is also indisputably true. But the wonder
of the Christ for men is that He was one of them. Naught there is, in
the trials and sufferings of man, but He did know it. Each step of the
path that men still tread has He painfully trodden. Nothing is there,
in the whole panorama of human experience that He has not shared. Thus
truly is He the Son of Man...
     ...let us clarify in our minds the reasons for His return. Let us
understand the nature of the task which He has set for Himself. To
establish in our midst the fact of God, has He come. To recreate the
Divine Mysteries, is He here. To teach men how to love, and love
again, is He among us. To establish man's brotherhood does He walk the
Earth once more. To keep faith with the Father and with man does He
accept this burden. To usher in the new age has He returned. To
consolidate the treasures of the past, to inspire the marvels of the
future, to glorify God and man has He descended from His high
mountain...
     ...That such a task is not an easy one, not even for the Son of
Man, is clear. Ancient habits of division and separation have strong
roots, while fear and superstition cast their spell over millions of
mankind. But never before, in the history of the world, has a Teacher
come better equipped for His task. Maitreya has come to do battle with
ignorance and fear, division and want. His weapons are spiritual
understanding, knowledge and love; His shining armour is Truth Itself.

----Cont in Maitreya pt 2---------------------------------------------

Don

--
Don Allen - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Pete Porro)
Subject: Re: RADIO ISOTOP
Date: 9 Jan 92 16:51:14 GMT

Isn't Deuterium usually known as heavy water? (H3O used in reactors) Or am I
confusing Deuterium Oxide with what you are writing about?
--
Pete Porro - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Don Allen)
Subject: Maitreya 2/2
Date: 10 Jan 92 23:43:00 GMT


----Maitreya pt 2/2-------------------------------------------------


|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|  Who is the Christ?  |=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|

In the esoteric tradition, the word 'Christ' is not the name of an
individual, but of an office or function within the spiritual
Hierarchy of Masters. The present holder of that office, Maitreya, has
been the Christ for the past 2,600 years and He will continue to hold
that position for the entire Age of Aquarius - approximately 2,000
more years.
     Maitreya the Christ is the eldest brother in the human family,
having perfected and fully manifested within Himself the divinity
which is latent in each of us. He comes today to reveal a new aspect
of divinity and to lead humanity into the Spiritual Kingdom, the
Kingdom of God.


|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|  The Art of Self-Realization
|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|

I have not come to found a new religion, says Maitreya, the World
Teacher. "I have come to teach the art of Self-realization," something
which is neither an ideology nor a religion, but benefits people of
all religions and those who have none. "I seek to express that which I
am through you; for this I come."
     According to Maitreya, "The Self alone matters." You are that
Self, He says, "an immortal being." Suffering is caused by
identification with anything and everything which is not the Self. Ask
yourself, "Who am I?" You will see that you are identified either with
matter (the body), or with thought (the mind) or with power (spirit).
But you are none of these. "Mind, spirit and body are the temples of
the Lord." The Self experiences in these temples "the supreme Being
and Becoming of the Lord."
     One of the easiest ways to know Me, Maitreya says, is to be
honest in your mind, be sincere in your spirit, and feed your body
with right food. Any action performed with dishonesty of mind, an
insincere spirit and attachment is destructive. For example, when you
think one thing, say another, and do something which is different
again, you are lost. Honesty of mind leads to honest speech and honest
action. This harmony leads to peace and happiness.
     Without detachment there is no salvation. Detachment is the most
powerful 'drug'. To learn detachment is an art. A scientist, with
detachment, will learn the laws of physics and chemistry (the laws of
creation) and will apply them, creating things which constitute God's
work. The artist, with detachment, will be able to describe God
through his own experiences.
     "Be what you are," Maitreya teaches. "Do not surrender your
self-respect, your dignity, to others. Do not allow anyone to cast his
shadow over you. A master gives experiences, but does not cast his
shadow."
     "Do not follow one another. If you practice honesty of mind,
sincerity of spirit and detachment, you will know your Self, you will
know Me, you will know the Lord."
     "I have not come to create followers," says Maitreya. "Each of
you should continue to develop within your own religious tradition." A
real disciple is one who will respect the traditions. Respect your own
religions, your own ideologies - in brief, your own thoughtform, and
you will experience the Master.
     "Even when you see Me," He says, "do not run after Me. If you fun
after Me, you will lose Me. If you parade Me, you do not know who I
am. I cannot be monopolized - I belong to everyone."


|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|  Share International and Tara Center
|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|

The information in this article was taken from a Special Information
Issue of "The Emergence", which was itself excerpted from the monthly
magazine, "Share International". "Share International" covers news,
events, and comments bearing on Maitreya's priorities: an adequate
supply of the right food; adequate housing and shelter for all;
healthcare and education as a universal right; the maintenance of
ecological balance in the world. The magazine is available by
subscription from Share International Foundation, a non-profit
organization who has NGO status at the United Nations. Abridged
versions are available in Dutch, German, French and Japanese.

Tara Center is a non-profit, non-denominational spiritual organization
founded in 1980. It's purposes are to disseminate information about
the reappearance of the World Teacher, Transmission Meditation, and
the global transformations now taking place. This work is carried out
through a network of volunteers who give freely of their time, energy
and resources. Tara Center is affiliated in purpose with the Tara
Press, London; Share International Foundation, Amsterdam; and Tara
Canada in Vancouver. Tara Center publishes a free monthly newsletter,
"The Emergence", which is available on request. It contains up-to-date
information on the progress of Maitreya's emergence, excepts from His
teachings, and news of how networkers throughout the world are sharing
this extraordinary news. It also published and distributes the books
of Benjamin Creme.


|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|  Where Do We Go From Here?
|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|

Many who hear about Maitreya's presence in the world write Tara Center
to ask "How can I help Him?" In the following quotations from
"Messages from Maitreya the Christ", He answers this very question:

"Begin by dedicating yourself and all that you are and have
  been to the service of the world,
  to the service of your brothers and sisters everywhere.
  Make sure that not one day passes
  without some act of true service
  and be assured that My help will be yours."
"Many there are now who would gladly know that I am here.
  Tell them. Tell them that the Son of Man has returned,
  that their Elder Brother is among them,
  that the long wait is over, and fresh and eager for the battle
  has come their Friend and Leader."
"Many are the ways to serve; many are the paths of ascent.
  No one today need feel deprived of a mode of service,
  of a path forward to the future.
  All paths, all means, flow to God.
  Take, My friends, the nearest of these paths
  and with Me serve your brothers."


"Hopes now run high for My appearance.
  Gladly would I present Myself to the people.
    Look for Me then, and find Me waiting.
      Search for Me then, and grasp My hand.
        I need your help to come before you, to bless this
          world and teach, to show men that the way forward
            is simple, requires only the acceptance of justice
              and freedom, sharing and love." - Maitreya

--

-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
-|-
|     Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen     |     [e-mail]
 |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
-|-
|   "Who am I, What am I?  As I am, I am not.  But as we are, I AM.  And to
 |
-   you my creation, My Perfect Love is your Perfect Freedom. And I will be
 -
|   with you forever and ever, until the End, and then forever more." - GOD
 |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
-|-


-----END--------------------------------------------------------------------

My *opinion* is that Maitreya is not just yet-another "false prophet",
but is *the* false prophet, mentioned in the Bible. From just a little
research, I see connections between Tara Foundation and Creme's Share
group involved with some UN activity and possibly policy/laws being created
by some UN groups. I state my opinion, but do not know that this is fact.

I'd be real interested if anyone else would comment on this and provide
any hard references to the UN connections. Who are these people, and what
are they doing?  What policy are they involved in creating? How will
that policy/laws effect us?

If you read any of Alice Bailey's and Creme's works..you soon discover
the phrase "The Plan"..  is repeated endless times. Just WHAT is "The
Plan"??

Don
dona@bilver

--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Price
Date: 6 Jan 92 04:47:00 GMT

Hi, I've sent a letter off to Richard price to find out details of his
video etc. Let you know details when he replies.

--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Info
Date: 6 Jan 92 04:49:00 GMT

Hi Ian, nice to see you on the network. Greetings from South
Australia.

--
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********To have your comments in the next issue, send electronic mail to********
                      'infopara' at the following address:

UUCP  {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom!infopara
DOMAIN  [e-mail]

 For administrative requests (subscriptions, back issues) send to:

UUCP            {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom!infopara-request
DOMAIN          [e-mail]
 To obtain back issues by anonymous ftp, connect to:

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Mail to private Paranet/Fidonet addresses from the newsletters:
DOMAIN  [e-mail]
UUCP  scicom!paranet.org!firstname.lastname

******************The**End**of**Info-ParaNet**Newsletter************************

                Info-ParaNet Newsletters   Volume I  Number 524

                           Monday, January 20th 1992

Today's Topics:

                                  Doug and Dave
                                   UFORA Book
                                 Re: Cis Message
                                 Amazon Question
                                    Deuterium
                              David Jacobs is back!
                                Re: Maitreya 2/2
                                    Mysticism
                                Re: Maitreya 1/2
                                     (none)
                              Anomalies in the Andes
                                   Puerto Rico
                                     (none)
                                 Re: Texas Camps
                                 Re: Texas Camps
                                      11:11
                                   hieronymous
                                Re: New Planets?
                                  Green Meteors
                                       Map
                                   Puerto Rico
                               AUSSIE CROP CIRCLE

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Doug and Dave
Date: 10 Jan 92 04:44:00 GMT

Colin Andrews even made it to little old Adelaide! However, I have not
heard from anyone in Oz that Doug and Dave made it here.

--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: UFORA Book
Date: 12 Jan 92 03:47:00 GMT


Mark,

I phoned Dynamo publishers a couple of days ago but there was no
answer. I then rang the manager at his home and his wife told me they
are still on vacation till January 20. However, she said you can order
the book by fax. Just leave your name, address and Visa card number
and they'll despatch the book as soon as they get back to work.

Regards,
Vlad

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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Re: Cis Message
Date: 11 Jan 92 15:35:01 GMT

>Got your message and the address, I started making up a package
>of articles for you. Should be leaving the office UPS on Monday
>or Tuesday.
Hi Pete,
        Great news!! I reposted on CIS this morning and then called
your BBS too, just in case (the line on this BBS was busy so I
didn't see your message here first.)  Sorry for the repetition!  But
many, many thanks for the reply.  Please ignore the duplicate
messages that now will clutter your mail <g>!
>
>As usual note the time on the message. a few hours sleep and
>here I am at the keyboard again. For a change I'm at home not
>the office.
Re the time, I'm usually at it early myself, starting work around
3:30 or so in the dark-time.  Actually it's a great time to work or
to BBS because for the former there are fewer interruptions and no
phone calls from cemetary plot salesmen (no offense any of you out
there who read this and follow that "calling"), and for the latter,
there seems to be less of a problem with line noise.  --Gee, they
let you play computers at work too? What a deal! ;-)
>
>Nothing new on West who says the sphinx is much older than
>generally accepted. How many days until 11:11? I'm not too
>concerned as time and the dates are all man made and have
>nothing to do with the cosmic relationships.

The Sphinx thing is really interesting...haven't seen anything new
myself, but am hoping. Did you see the UFONS clips on that?  Pretty
good detail.
I agree about the dates -- manmade concepts are not material in
cosmic arenas.  Remember the Russell, Kansas, pair, Butts and
Corder, who got their UFO info and catastrophe predictions from
"Peter/Cephas" the angel?  He kept getting the dates wrong and when
they were pressed to ask him why he couldn't get it right when he's
supposed to be able to see it all as if reading a book forward and
backward, he said our earth times were not relevant to real time and
it was easy to make errors in the translation (gist of it - not
literally what was reported.)  So if Peter the Great can goof, why
not the others for the same reason?
;-)
        Thanks so much for the reply.  I'll be eager to see the
packet and happy to reimburse postage too.
                                        ==Peggy==
--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Peggy Noonan)
Subject: Amazon Question
Date: 11 Jan 92 15:45:02 GMT

> > of people in South America.

>  You've read Tristan Jones?!!! Wow!
>  I met him about nine years ago in Key West; kept the beer
>coming and he kept the stories coming. Amazing guy! Maybe the
>fact that I was a scuzzy sailor helped. ;-)
>  Now that you mention it, I remember something about the
>fair-skinned people too. I *think* it may have been in
>_Adrift_, but it's been so long since I've read his books I
>don't remember.

Hi John,
        Yep, I'm a big fan of Jones' books.  I'd read the first
couple before the article in Writer's Digest that told how he wrote
while at sea and showed a photo of him in the cabin, perched over a
typewriter -- has forever humbled me (any time I grump about not
having time or comforts for writing, I think of him trying to write
in at-sea conditions _and getting it done!_ and I shut up again!)
        I've read most of his books and now that you mention
_Adrift_ I'll recheck..probably was that one.  I didn't finish a
couple of the more technical books, but thoroughly enjoyed all the
rest.  What a wonderful time you must've had quaffing brews with a
storyteller like that!  I've often thought how great that would be.
And, actually I owe Tristan Jones a debt.  His books were the spur
that made a very great change in our lives (my husband and me, that
is) and we've said many times if he's ever around and available,
we'll buy him a drink anytime.  (Getting to talk to him too would be
gravy!)  Probably people like him don't realize what they do for
their readers, but I've read other people who said they got their
inspiration or courage or will or whatever from reading TJ's books,
that his quiet determination and willpower was so inspiring they
gained new perspective on their own little problems and were able to
overcome them.   From the way he writes, I would guess he wouldn't
like such "frou-frou" talk, but nevertheless, he's done a lot of
good for a lot of people by just telling his stories in unvarnished,
straightforward and honest fashion.
        Ah, a fellow Jones fan, 'tis great indeed!
        (If I can find the reference, I'll let you know...try to
post the page, etc. and quote.)
        BTW, I didn't realize you were a serious sailor.  One
assumes anyone near H2O is some kind of waterbug, but being one who
can share the company of a T.Jones is quite something else again.
Wow!
                                        **
                              ^^^^^^<________>^^^^^^    ==Peggy==
--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Sheldon Wernikoff)
Subject: Deuterium
Date: 12 Jan 92 05:40:01 GMT


 In a message to Sheldon Wernikoff <09-Jan-92 09:51>
 Pete Porro wrote:

PP> Isn't Deuterium usually known as heavy water? (H3O used in
PP> reactors) Or am I confusing Deuterium Oxide with what you are
PP> writing about?

 Hi Pete... Deuterium is "heavy hydrogen", Deuterium Oxide (D20) is
the "heavy water" you refer to. Elemental hydrogen consists of a
single proton nucleus orbited by one electron, whereas isotopic
deuterium contains the addition of one neutron to the hydrogen
nucleus. The deuteron is the nucleus of the deuterium atom, sans
the electron. We'll be hearing a great deal about the "D" word in
the coming months re: CC research. Time will tell if there is a
valid correlation.

Take care,

Sheldon

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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: David Jacobs is back!
Date: 12 Jan 92 19:19:00 GMT

Just an announcement to let everyone know that David Jacobs is back with us
on the ParaNet Adbuctions Conference.  Internetters can request the daily list
by sending your request to [e-mail].  As most of
you know, David is the author of an excellent reference book, The UFO
Controversy in America.  He is also working on an upcoming book on abductions.

Mike

--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: Maitreya 2/2
Date: 12 Jan 92 20:21:00 GMT

Hi Don,

Help!  My first instinct, when reading what you just posted, it to run
in panic!  I don't want to have anything to do with such people with
such notions.  It makes me dizzy, and IMHO, anyone who finds comfort in
such droolings, is lost!

Thanks for posting!  All this means to me is that for hundreds of
years, people (some people) have been looking for a Hero to rescue
them.  Didn't the Germans see Hitler as such a Hero?  Does George Bush
see himself as such a Hero when he talked of The New World Order?

Some of the hard-liner Contactees see Aliens as "Space
Brothers"--Heroes who will save them.  The sad thing is that these
Heroes take away too many of our freedoms and turn us into mindless
creatures.

Coming down off my soap box,

Linda

--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Andre Eichner)
Subject: Mysticism
Date: 6 Jan 92 07:40:00 GMT

Hello Mike!

In a msg of <21 Dec 91>, Mike Dennis writes to All:

 MD> In reference to telepathic communication, Dr. Barbara Young wishes to
 MD> correspond on the following subjects.
 MD> 1. Are you interested in training for telepathic communication.
 MD> 2. Remote viewing.
 MD> 3. Movement through time.
 MD> 4. mystical training.
 MD>      a)  Excaliber sword.
 MD> 5. Attainment of knowledge beyond what is written.

Oh yes, please. I'm very interested.
Any good and easy ideas?

cheers
   Andre
         +--------------------------------------------------------+
         | FidoNet-Berlin, the UFO information service in Berlin  |
         | FidoNet 2:245/10, GerNet 222:100/29, ParaNet 91:1021/2 |
         | [phone]  HST/V32/V42B  14.400 bps               |
         | Sysop: Andre Eichner                                   |
         +--------------------------------------------------------+

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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Steve Rose)
Subject: Re: Maitreya 1/2
Date: 13 Jan 92 06:45:00 GMT


 DA> |=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|=|
 DA> He has been expected for generations by all of the major religions.
 DA> Christians know Him as the Christ, and expect His imminent return. The
 DA> Jews await Him as the Messiah; the Hindus look for the coming of
 DA>  ! Origin: PARANET//UFINET//BAMA//UFO_LINK [phone] (1:363/29)


Come on, Don.  Even for you... this "Hal Gurney's Network Bandwidth
Wasters" series is a low blow...

 ...I think.   ;-)




--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: ecn.purdue.edu!lush
Subject: (none)
Date: 13 Jan 92 20:39:17 GMT

From: [e-mail] (Gregory B Lush)


Subject:  Anomalies in the Andes

?  Hmmm, indeed.  Actually, some of the most interesting stuff is underwater on
?  the U.S. Costal Shelf, around Bermuda and the Caribbean islands, and in the
?  Gulf of Mexico.  I seem to recall the discovery of a well-preserved stone
?  staircase leading down to a beach on the Yucatan.
?
? But the beach is now 150' underwater, the stairs begin almost 100' underwater,
?  and they clearly correspond to sea levels of B.C. 20,000.
?
? There's a similar anomaly just below Mancu Picu in the Andes: a stairway leads
?  down to the beach. The beach is at about 11,000 feet elevation, and seems to
? have been there before the Mountains rose to their present height! In fact the
?  whole city of Mancu Picu has been 'undatable' according to some sources,
?  because it was virtually earthquake-proof (until the Conquistadores removed
?  the flexible silver braces from the buildings).
?
?  Best,
?  Clark

What are your sources, Clark?

Thanks

Greg ([e-mail])


--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Winn Schwartau)
Subject: Puerto Rico
Date: 14 Jan 92 07:09:00 GMT

Been hearing a couple of rumors:

        1. In late Nov early Dec, over Puerto Rico, 2 F-14's played tag with
a UFO in front of lots of people AND a TV camera from the local station.
I've heard several people talk about it, but no one who has seen/has access
to the video.  According to Hard Copy production staff, they were outbid for
the video by another 'news' organization.

        2. The Feds are going to come clean.  Been able to trace this to a
Dr. Robert Carr at the Univ of Southern Florida who is tied to the Feds
somehow.

Interested in why I'm as nuts as them or maybe ?????
:-)

--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Don Allen)
Subject: (none)
Date: 12 Jan 92 23:10:00 GMT


 nn> Dr. John Coleman is an expert in intelligence and is now
 nn> contributing to the Phoenix Liberator.  He wrote an article
 nn> in the last issue about the Noriega trial.  He talked about
 nn> the weakness of the prosecution's case, the judge's
 nn> behavior,
 nn> and how the flow of drugs has increased since he was taken,
 nn> after steadily decreasing while he was in power.
 nn>
 nn> It's well written with some inside information from his
 nn> own unnamed sources.  He also talks about something called
 nn> the
 nn> Defoe Report which is unavailable to the public because of
 nn> 'national security'--it allegedly details Bush's
 nn> involvement.
 nn>
 nn> If any of you would like a copy of the article,
 nn> I can make copies and send them to you at no cost.

Greg..I would love to get a copy of this report. Please send to:

Don Allen
1818G Landing Dr.
Sanford,Fl 32771

Thanks!

Don

[e-mail]

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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Kay Mclaughlin)
Subject: Re: Texas Camps
Date: 10 Jan 92 18:19:00 GMT


 DE> Kay Mclaughlin asked;

 > On the Chuck Harder Show the other night, I heard a snippet about how
 > various private pilots(?) have been seeing "concentration type camps"(!)
 > springing up in the wilds of Texas. I didn't catch the whole thing, but
 > it sounded weird, he said he was looking into it.
 > Heard anything?

 DE> Kay, like many people researching the UFO field, I have heard various
 DE> rumors over the years about "detention camps" or "concentration camps"
 DE> being set up for various "polictical unreliables" in the event of
 DE> internal U.S. problems. Perhaps some of the various govt. types that
 DE> inhabit this forum could enlighten us but I will not hold my breath.
 DE> HOWEVER:

 DE> I to heard that on the Harder show, so I went investigating my newest
 DE> version of Ralph McGeHee's CIABASE. The following is what I found, and
 DE> what McGeHee has included in this fantastic computer database on the
 DE> various covert agencies.
 DE> ***********************************************************************

Don,

Thanks so much, that was exactly the distant bell that rang in my head
when I heard the rumor. FEMA, FEMA, FEMA. Bingo!

In addition to government types, do we have any pilots here? For some
reason "private" pilots were specifically mentioned, nothing said about
Commercial Pilots, not sure what that implied.

Regards,
Kay

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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Kay Mclaughlin)
Subject: Re: Texas Camps
Date: 10 Jan 92 18:39:00 GMT


 KM> On the Chuck Harder Show the other night, I heard a snippet
 KM> about how
 KM> various private pilots(?) have been seeing "concentration
 KM> type camps"(!)
 KM> springing up in the wilds of Texas. I didn't catch the
 KM> whole thing, but
 KM> it sounded weird, he said he was looking into it.

 DA> This sounds suspiciously like the REX-84 Bravo plan (FEMA) plan..

 DA> What's that you ask?

 DA> I have this snippet handy:

 DA> SECRET CONCENTRATION CAMPS

Don,

Thanks, see my previous post to Don E., this is in fact what rang a
bell in my cobwebbed brain when I heard it.

I also remember a lot of talk, because FEMA had had a difficult time
mobilizing relief for Hurricane Hugo, around the time that this story
broke.

Regards,
Kay

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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Danny Brandenburg)
Subject: 11:11
Date: 13 Jan 92 09:50:10 GMT

> How many days until 11:11?



     Exactly what date is 11:11 to happen on?  Also, does anyone know if
11:11 is only a product of the Phoenix Institute or is it larger than
this group?



                              Danny Brandenburg


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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Danny Brandenburg)
Subject: hieronymous
Date: 13 Jan 92 10:04:20 GMT

With all of the talk about the hieronymous machines lately, I am still
really unsure what the thing is.  Could someone easily explain what this
thing A) really is B) what it is suppose to do?



               Thanks much,

               Danny Brandenburg


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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Danny Brandenburg)
Subject: Re: New Planets?
Date: 13 Jan 92 10:06:46 GMT

Linda,

    Hi, long time no message (?).  About the new planets...  Has there
been any indication on what the scientists think about the planets
actually being there?  For instance, theoretically, the planets should
have been destroyed in the later stages of the star's development.  Why
would have these planets still be "hanging" around?

                              Good to be back from break,

                                Danny Brandenburg


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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: Green Meteors
Date: 14 Jan 92 20:55:00 GMT


 * Forwarded from "Alt.Alien.Visitors"
 * Originally from Mark S Gilstrap
 * Originally dated 01-13-92 18:03

From: [e-mail] (mark s gilstrap)
Date: 13 Jan 92 17:41:05 GMT
Organization: Indiana University
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors


        While driving to St Louis early Sat morning, I watched a
        green meteor in the southern sky. It was just a regular
        one and all, except that it was green. This reminded me
        of the tales my father had of two particular ones he had
        seen.

        In addition to regular green meteors he had seen, two others
        were something special, and he always communicated a sense of
        awe when relating the stories. One in particular (in the 50's)
        was so slow moving and so long lasting that he was sure it
        was not a meteor. It was also seen across the continent by many
        people. I think it was this that led him to want to attend the
        KC UFO club meetings in the early sixties.

        I don't recall the theories he had or had heard about these
        or the details that made people think they were not meteors.

        Can someone tell me more about the reasons people did (and
        still do?) place emphasis on these slow-moving celestial
        events?

--
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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Map
Date: 15 Jan 92 02:40:00 GMT

Hello someone.....

Somebody asked about a map showing the 12th planet (or something like
that) and I blithered that I had a copy of it and would be happy to
sent it out.

Well, unfortunately, the flu bug had my Brain that day, and I now can't
remember who wanted the map.  I  *thought* I save the message as well
as that kind person's address, but there musta been a virus in the
computer as WELL!

So, whoever you are, will you please write again, and accept my humble
apologies?

Thanks!     Linda

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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Jim Speiser)
Subject: Puerto Rico
Date: 14 Jan 92 16:44:52 GMT

In a message to Anyone <14 Jan 92 00:09> Winn Schwartau wrote:

 WS> Been hearing a couple of rumors:

 WS>        1. In late Nov early Dec, over Puerto Rico, 2 F-14's
 WS> played tag with a UFO in front of lots of people AND a TV camera
 WS> from the local station. I've heard several people talk about it,
 WS> but no one who has seen/has access to the video.  According to
 WS> Hard Copy production staff, they were outbid for the video by
 WS> another 'news' organization.


There HAS been a major flap in Puerto Rico, and I did hear of a possible plane
chase, but nothing that recent. The people at UFO Magazine might know more.


 WS>        2. The Feds are going to come clean.  Been able to trace
 WS> this to a Dr. Robert Carr at the Univ of Southern Florida who is
 WS> tied to the Feds somehow.

This fellow Carr has been making this claim for literally decades. He seems to
be a wacko, tied into the Deep Blue rumor mill (underground bases, face-eating
aliens, etc.) I wouldn't pay much attention.


Jim


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--------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: AUSSIE CROP CIRCLE
Date: 11 Jan 92 22:01:00 GMT

GIGANTIC CROP CIRCLE DISCOVERED IN SOUTH AUSTRALIA!
TO BE SHOWN SHORTLY ON U.S. TV!
Last night's TV news carried an item about the discovery of a complex,
gigantic wheat paddock crop circle in the south-east of South
Australia-my home state. Sorry, folks, it's a man made one
created for a U.S. car maker's advertising campaign.
Apparently it looks like the Buick car emblem and the US film
producers came "down under" as it is crop season here. The TV news
item said it will be shown in the US within 2 weeks-keep an eye out!

--
Keith Basterfield - via FidoNet node 1:104/422
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